Parent tackles AR

From referee pages at bigsocccer.com --

www.bigsoccer.com

Bad stories

You guys are making me sad ... but also a little bit more determined on my almost-final decision not to go back out on the pitch next year. :( sadly,...
www.bigsoccer.com www.bigsoccer.com
 
timbuck said:
I think more parents should take a basic referee class so they at least know the rules (laws). A lot of griping would go away if parents understood handling, offside, advantage and referee discretion.
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Clubs have a responsibility too.. the league has a responsibility to protect the game.

not everything is the parents fault. It’s like greed , club complacency and doing the bare minimum in standards are ok as long as we can blame the other kids parents.

Hold your leagues accountable! Stop blaming parents for everything!
 
Soccermaverick said:
Clubs have a responsibility too.. the league has a responsibility to protect the game.

not everything is the parents fault. It’s like greed , club complacency and doing the bare minimum in standards are ok as long as we can blame the other kids parents.

Hold your leagues accountable! Stop blaming parents for everything!
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Poor parents/spectators/coaches/clubs. They are the real victims of bad officiating. Those bad teenagers who took the referee classes and spend their weekends time refereeing games are totally unprofessional. Instead of going to school and do other activities they should spend all their time learning the rules and go over video clips of their games minute by minute, and also learn from real professionals who do games in MLS, Premiere, and other leagues. After all they have decided to be a referee, right. And those adults who, somehow, decided that they can ref; what they are doing there. They should stay with their families and spend some quality time with spouses and kids. We need real pros to ref our kids games and if it will require more money we have no problems to add extra $50 for our season fees. After all our kids deserve better officiating.

Give me a break!!!
And if you that upset with officiating then send your kid to get a referee license and/or you can do better than that as go with your kid and get a referee license and start refereeing games.
 
SFR said:
Poor parents/spectators/coaches/clubs. They are the real victims of bad officiating. Those bad teenagers who took the referee classes and spend their weekends time refereeing games are totally unprofessional. Instead of going to school and do other activities they should spend all their time learning the rules and go over video clips of their games minute by minute, and also learn from real professionals who do games in MLS, Premiere, and other leagues. After all they have decided to be a referee, right. And those adults who, somehow, decided that they can ref; what they are doing there. They should stay with their families and spend some quality time with spouses and kids. We need real pros to ref our kids games and if it will require more money we have no problems to add extra $50 for our season fees. After all our kids deserve better officiating.

Give me a break!!!
And if you that upset with officiating then send your kid to get a referee license and/or you can do better than that as go with your kid and get a referee license and start refereeing games.
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https://contenthub-static.grammarly.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/verklempt-meaning.gif
 
Soccermaverick said:
Clubs have a responsibility too.. the league has a responsibility to protect the game.

not everything is the parents fault. It’s like greed , club complacency and doing the bare minimum in standards are ok as long as we can blame the other kids parents.

Hold your leagues accountable! Stop blaming parents for everything!
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Absolutely! I'm sure this dad was paying so much in monthly dues that the club should have hired professional referees, especially in this particular epic matchup of children playing a lower level regional league in which the perp's team was in the bottom half of the table. It is completely the fault of the club that hired the refs that this father assaulted a minor. In fact, this is why it is so important to pay for the finest, most competent refs for important matches like this. Either that, or maybe daddy should have understood this was just children playing a meaningless child's game, and that his boy is a little shit who did not fall far from the tree.

Thank goodness the entire team has been suspended for 7 months. This kind of bs doesn't happen unless it has been enabled by shitbag parents, coaches and players for months. Good riddance to all of them.
 
dad4 said:
Corporate greed?

Referees fall into two categories:
1- kids learning a first job.
2- middle aged guys who give up their weekend so kids can play.

Be glad they are willing to do it at all.

And, if you could do a better job, then please do.
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Agree. The expectation of quality refereeing in youth soccer is pretty bizarre TBH. Elite referees in the EPL with the benefit of VA still fup regularly, or make decisions that are then argued over because it could have gone another way ... maybe.

Just be happy they are there. There was a tournament scheduled recently in TX (San Antonio I think) that was cancelled pretty much at the last minute ... due to lack of referees. Several teams from AZ were going and now their parents have plenty of airline credits.

I've planned to sign my kids up for the referee course several times, and then I go to a couple of games and am not so inclined. They don't need that crap, even if it is easy money - and they both know the rules and see more on the field than any of the parents.

It's not just a US problem though - see my link to the refs in Ireland recently. I do think there is a direct link between how the pros and every player level down behave towards referees AND their coaches through all those levels, and how that then gets replicated in youth soccer. Its the opposite in Rugby and look at how that works, from the most elite level teams & coaches, down to the kids starting out and how they are told (and shown) how to behave.
 
On November 17, 2021, our office received the case from the Roseville Police Department after they concluded their investigation into the incident that occurred on October 30.

On November 19, 2021, after a thorough review of the case, the Placer County District Attorney’s Office charged Vicente Robles, 34, of Sacramento, with a violation of Penal Code Section 243.8 – Battery on a Sports Official. The arraignment date is set for December 8, 2021 in Department 30 of the Placer County Superior Court.

Morgan Gire
District Attorney
Placer County
 
espola said:
On November 17, 2021, our office received the case from the Roseville Police Department after they concluded their investigation into the incident that occurred on October 30.

On November 19, 2021, after a thorough review of the case, the Placer County District Attorney’s Office charged Vicente Robles, 34, of Sacramento, with a violation of Penal Code Section 243.8 – Battery on a Sports Official. The arraignment date is set for December 8, 2021 in Department 30 of the Placer County Superior Court.

Morgan Gire
District Attorney
Placer County
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Thanks Espola for that. Just curious, what sort of sentence/fines would that charge bring?
 
supercell said:
Thanks Espola for that. Just curious, what sort of sentence/fines would that charge bring?
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"...punishable by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment. "

codes.findlaw.com

California Code, Penal Code - PEN § 243.8 | FindLaw

California Penal Code PEN CA PENAL Section 243.8. Read the code on FindLaw
codes.findlaw.com codes.findlaw.com
 
dad4 said:
Corporate greed?

Referees fall into two categories:
1- kids learning a first job.
2- middle aged guys who give up their weekend so kids can play.

Be glad they are willing to do it at all.

And, if you could do a better job, then please do.
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You missed one. At least in SoCal, particularly in coast, many of the referees are working class Latino stiffs. They did it to earn the extra (relatively tax free) cash and because if they worked a full shift it would be more profitable for the day than a regular weekend job. When I was reffing, my usual crew was a CR (my assigned mentor) who was a custodian during the week and who would give up watching her own kids to earn the cash (her sister would usually baby sit) and a guy who was an electrician.
 
SFR said:
Poor parents/spectators/coaches/clubs. They are the real victims of bad officiating. Those bad teenagers who took the referee classes and spend their weekends time refereeing games are totally unprofessional. Instead of going to school and do other activities they should spend all their time learning the rules and go over video clips of their games minute by minute, and also learn from real professionals who do games in MLS, Premiere, and other leagues. After all they have decided to be a referee, right. And those adults who, somehow, decided that they can ref; what they are doing there. They should stay with their families and spend some quality time with spouses and kids. We need real pros to ref our kids games and if it will require more money we have no problems to add extra $50 for our season fees. After all our kids deserve better officiating.

Give me a break!!!
And if you that upset with officiating then send your kid to get a referee license and/or you can do better than that as go with your kid and get a referee license and start refereeing games.
Click to expand...

with the drift up in the minimum wage recently, other opportunities have become more appealing to referees. There are a lot of people who do it because they love the game...but they also need the cash. With the opportunity cost of reffing rising, and with the environment to ref becoming poorer, like any market you'll get fewer refs and fewer good refs....if you want good referees and want to be able to cut the poor ones, you have to pay them more than they could make in other settings

The other issues with bad officiating is not the refs, but with the training. Again, the issue where games go out of control is when the referees don't call the really bad fouls. The organizations need to tell the refs to call them. If you have to err, it's better to err on the side of whistling too much than not at all.
 
Grace T. said:
You missed one. At least in SoCal, particularly in coast, many of the referees are working class Latino stiffs. They did it to earn the extra (relatively tax free) cash and because if they worked a full shift it would be more profitable for the day than a regular weekend job. When I was reffing, my usual crew was a CR (my assigned mentor) who was a custodian during the week and who would give up watching her own kids to earn the cash (her sister would usually baby sit) and a guy who was an electrician.
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In the bay area, we’ve forced most of those guys out into the central valley. You still see them at tournaments as travel refs.
 
The whole referee system in the leagues is a classic example of poor regulation from the top. No accountability and deflect the outrage from the root cause. The clubs and leagues need to manage the referees It’s a burden to the clubs and leagues.
I have seen refs get in the face of kids and threaten them, I have overheard refs make fun of kids on the fields. Until the club and league hold the standards higher this will continue.

How may refs are filing a 1099? Ask that question. It will go real quiet on the field.
 
Soccermaverick said:
The whole referee system in the leagues is a classic example of poor regulation from the top. No accountability and deflect the outrage from the root cause. The clubs and leagues need to manage the referees It’s a burden to the clubs and leagues.
I have seen refs get in the face of kids and threaten them, I have overheard refs make fun of kids on the fields. Until the club and league hold the standards higher this will continue.

How may refs are filing a 1099? Ask that question. It will go real quiet on the field.
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All true (I've seen the same) but there's poor regulation because the leagues are afraid that if they crack down or require extra training they'll lose refs in an already tight market, and hiring supervisors costs money.

It's also true that parent and coach behavior in recent years have gotten out of control.

It's also true that the higher up you go in leagues/levels/age, the better the refs.
 
toucan said:
Ahh ... This brings back memories. For a short time I was a contract attorney for the Placer County Public Defender's office. I defended Preliminary Hearings in the Roseville annex of the court. If this had happened back then, I would have gotten Mr. Robles out of jail, and back on the fields where he belongs.
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He belongs on a treadmill, not soccer field sideline
 
Soccermaverick said:
The whole referee system in the leagues is a classic example of poor regulation from the top. No accountability and deflect the outrage from the root cause. The clubs and leagues need to manage the referees It’s a burden to the clubs and leagues.
I have seen refs get in the face of kids and threaten them, I have overheard refs make fun of kids on the fields. Until the club and league hold the standards higher this will continue.

How may refs are filing a 1099? Ask that question. It will go real quiet on the field.
Click to expand...
I am officiating games in Bay Area for almost 7 years. My 2 kids play soccer. Sometimes, we come and watch games with our friend's kids. I never observed behavior when referee would threaten kids or make fun of them. I don't even understand how it could be.
Sometimes, you can see a referee, after a whistle, come and talk to a player addressing some dirty or dangers play and warn them not to do it again and that next time they can get yellow or red card. Is that what you call 'threatening player'?

Regarding filing a 1099. Do you know that, again, in Bay Area, referees don't get cash on hands anymore and they have to file W-9 in other to get paid. And if a referee get more than $600 in a year then it's going to be reported as non-employment income to the IRS.
So, please, don't say what you don't know.
And even if in some places referees still get some cash on hands you still don't say they don't report it to IRS as you wouldn't know that.

And, if you really want to address some issue with bad officiating you are aware of or witnessed while your kid was playing or etc. then please do it. Contact referee org like http://www.norcalreferees.com/contact_us/. Trust me every complain towards bad referee behavior or bad officiating will be investigated. And regardless of the shortage of referees they won't hesitate to address the issue in the right way.
 
SFR said:
I am officiating games in Bay Area for almost 7 years. My 2 kids play soccer. Sometimes, we come and watch games with our friend's kids. I never observed behavior when referee would threaten kids or make fun of them. I don't even understand how it could be.
Sometimes, you can see a referee, after a whistle, come and talk to a player addressing some dirty or dangers play and warn them not to do it again and that next time they can get yellow or red card. Is that what you call 'threatening player'?

Regarding filing a 1099. Do you know that, again, in Bay Area, referees don't get cash on hands anymore and they have to file W-9 in other to get paid. And if a referee get more than $600 in a year then it's going to be reported as non-employment income to the IRS.
So, please, don't say what you don't know.
And even if in some places referees still get some cash on hands you still don't say they don't report it to IRS as you wouldn't know that.

And, if you really want to address some issue with bad officiating you are aware of or witnessed while your kid was playing or etc. then please do it. Contact referee org like http://www.norcalreferees.com/contact_us/. Trust me every complain towards bad referee behavior or bad officiating will be investigated. And regardless of the shortage of referees they won't hesitate to address the issue in the right way.
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Welll most Soccer players in my area don’t have that liberal Marin county money to afford good referees..So let me tell you what I know

Refs saying they are not going to finish the game until they get paid at half time… Cash transactions on the field.

Being from the Bay Area I guess you can afford the good refs..
 
Soccermaverick said:
Welll most Soccer players in my area don’t have that liberal Marin county money to afford good referees..So let me tell you what I know

Refs saying they are not going to finish the game until they get paid at half time… Cash transactions on the field.

Being from the Bay Area I guess you can afford the good refs..
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I like the word "liberal".
It's very related to our soccer conversation.

Personally, I don't think there is a difference in quality of officiating between counties. Throughout my kids tournaments I've been in many different places and I can assure you referees are missing calls everywhere in the same way including the "liberal Marin county" (by the way, I am from East Bay).
But, In my opinion, it's up to clubs to make the difference in rising ugly situations in youth sport.
Working with parents and especially with coaches on what are the norms would help to bring those accidents to a very minimal. If a coach, before every single game, find two minutes go and talk to parents asking them remain calm when certain situation during the game can arise. And promise parents that every single case with bad officiating will be addressed and let them know the outcomes of it would really work.
And if a coach, before every single game, will go and ask parents to stay civil I am pretty sure coach himself/herself will be obligated to stay within the boundaries
 
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