Parent tackles AR

I have refereed games (center and AR) …it is not an easy task. I make it a habit of not saying anything to the refs. It’s pointless. For me, refs are the third team on the field.

The Ref issue comes down to lack of mentorship and auditing.

Some refs are running around doing their own thing… The only consistency is how bad is are they going to be.

Refs need to be audited.. unionized or managed by a central organization.

A master referee position (NorCal/Calsouth) needs to be at all games watching and advising. Removing those that are not up to the task.

The parents need to understand this is a league issue and you get what you pay for. Best thing to do is move on to the next game.
 
People just seem so angry. Yes, I’ve seen terrible refs. I’ve seen terrible fouls. But at the end of day, we have to model behavior for our kids. I’ve seen parents abuse their kids, yelling and screaming at them during games. They tend to want their player to be more aggressive. Foul the other player back! Don’t let them bully you! Revenge!
I understand the urge to retaliate. But everyone needs to think and exhibit more self control. If the AR touched the kid, the parent, coach and club could raise a stink and get the ref banned. Now it looks like its the other way around. Who won?
 
Soccermaverick said:
I have refereed games (center and AR) …it is not an easy task. I make it a habit of not saying anything to the refs. It’s pointless. For me, refs are the third team on the field.

The Ref issue comes down to lack of mentorship and auditing.

Some refs are running around doing their own thing… The only consistency is how bad is are they going to be.

Refs need to be audited.. unionized or managed by a central organization.

A master referee position (NorCal/Calsouth) needs to be at all games watching and advising. Removing those that are not up to the task.

The parents need to understand this is a league issue and you get what you pay for. Best thing to do is move on to the next game.
Click to expand...
A ref trainer at every game? Where are you going to find that many experienced referees?

They do have referee mentors. They do their best, but they can’t be everywhere. It’s more about guidance than removal.

After all, imagine what would happen if they threw out every ref who makes a bad call. Are you really OK with paying $1500 for a 3 game season?

Just accept bad calls and bad non-calls as part of the game, the same as you accept bad shots and bad passes. If it really bugs you, take the class and go help.
 
Soccermaverick said:
I have refereed games (center and AR) …it is not an easy task. I make it a habit of not saying anything to the refs. It’s pointless. For me, refs are the third team on the field.

The Ref issue comes down to lack of mentorship and auditing.

Some refs are running around doing their own thing… The only consistency is how bad is are they going to be.

Refs need to be audited.. unionized or managed by a central organization.

A master referee position (NorCal/Calsouth) needs to be at all games watching and advising. Removing those that are not up to the task.

The parents need to understand this is a league issue and you get what you pay for. Best thing to do is move on to the next game.
Click to expand...

Premier League, La Liga, International Competition, etc all have issues with bad calls. They now use VAR to check and they still mess things up.
I don't think we should expect a weekend warrior referee to get every call right. We certainly shouldn't be arguing things like which way a throw-in goes.
And soccer is a contact sport. Fouls will get missed. Things that don't look like fouls will get called. Sometimes the better team loses (In soccer more often than any other sport).

Sit back. Watch your kid play. Let your coach deal with on-field issues. Drive your kid home and tell them you are proud of how he/she played. Proud of how he/she kept their cool when they got unnecessarily fouled. If you lost because of a crappy penalty call- Tell them that their team should have done something during the other 85 minutes of the game to take it out of the referees hand. If your backline/gk made a howler of a mistake that cost your team a goal- Remind your kid about the 9 shots his team had that either went right at the keeper or sailed 20 feet over the cross bar.
 
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dad4 said:
A ref trainer at every game? Where are you going to find that many experienced referees?

They do have referee mentors. They do their best, but they can’t be everywhere. It’s more about guidance than removal.

After all, imagine what would happen if they threw out every ref who makes a bad call. Are you really OK with paying $1500 for a 3 game season?

Just accept bad calls and bad non-calls as part of the game, the same as you accept bad shots and bad passes. If it really bugs you, take the class and go help.
Click to expand...
I had a parent once ask me what can be done about the horrible refs. I said in reply “become a ref!”. He slinked off.
 
dad4 said:
Still a kid. You’re in front of the coaches. You can easily back up 10-20 feet or more while the coach tries to reign in the player and the center explains what the red card is for.

To watch the video, the teammates tried to do the right thing and keep the offending player out of it.
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The video, as edited by the TV station, doesn't show the confrontation at all.
 
watfly said:
I dont know? What kind of circumstances would prevent a ref from walking away? I dont think protecting your personal space is justification for aggressivelly touching a minor. Im pretty sure that the LOTG dont have a "stand your ground" provision for refs. Maybe their is evidence that the kid tried to assault the ref? My opinion would be different if he physically attacked the ref. Im basing my opinion on what has been reported, which is quite often not accurate.

Like I said before 3 wrongs dont make a right.
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Now you are up to "aggressively touching"?
 
timbuck said:
Premier League, La Liga, International Competition, etc all have issues with bad calls. They now use VAR to check and they still mess things up.
I don't think we should expect a weekend warrior referee to get every call right. We certainly shouldn't be arguing things like which way a throw-in goes.
And soccer is a contact sport. Fouls will get missed. Things that don't look like fouls will get called. Sometimes the better team loses (In soccer more often than any other sport).

Sit back. Watch your kid play. Let your coach deal with on-field issues. Drive your kid home and tell them you are proud of how he/she played. Proud of how he/she kept their cool when they got unnecessarily fouled. If you lost because of a crappy penalty call- Tell them that their team should have done something during the other 85 minutes of the game to take it out of the referees hand. If your backline/gk made a howler of a mistake that cost your team a goal- Remind you kid about the 9 shots his team had that either went right at the keeper or sailed 20 feet over the cross bar.
Click to expand...

We had a game several weeks ago that had the potential to turn ugly, but due to the example set by our coach it ended well. When we arrived for the older flight 1 game we were told there were no refs so it could only be a scrimmage. About 10 min later while the players were still warming up a ref arrived, I saw him speaking to a parent of the home team so assume this parent must have known the ref, gave him a call and he got to the field in minutes. This ref wasn’t planning on referring a game that morning but was needed and came even though he knew it was an older team and there would be no ARs, thank you ref. Early in the game there was an offside call our players didn’t agree with, as soon as they expressed this our coach shouted out to them “Have respect, he is on his own”. Immediately the players settled down. Later in the game a goal was called off for the player being offside, even though this was on a throw in. As soon as the ref blew the whistle you could tell he knew he had screwed up but as the whistle came a fraction of a second before the ball crossed the line there was nothing he could do. There was certainly grumbling by the players and spectators, but I think our coach’s earlier reminder to show respect kept it to just grumbling. I believe a coach can have a great influence on the attitude of a team if he/she consistently leads by example. By the way we ended up winning the game and I do realize that it is much easier to be forgiving when you are ahead but I still think our coach deserves credit for setting an example of accepting this ref was on his own and mistakes would be made.
 
dad4 said:
A ref trainer at every game? Where are you going to find that many experienced referees?

They do have referee mentors. They do their best, but they can’t be everywhere. It’s more about guidance than removal.

After all, imagine what would happen if they threw out every ref who makes a bad call. Are you really OK with paying $1500 for a 3 game season?

Just accept bad calls and bad non-calls as part of the game, the same as you accept bad shots and bad passes. If it really bugs you, take the class and go help.
Click to expand...

Particularly as the kids get older and move up in level, I think the parents get there (for the most part, certain organizations excepted). Again, though, the 4 times I've seen meltdowns post COVID has been when player safety has been triggered. Doesn't excuse the behavior, but that's in my experience where it tends to go ballistic.

With a labor shortage everywhere not just in refereeing, if you start suspending the bad ones, and want to attract news ones, you will have to offer substantial more.
 
Curious said:
We had a game several weeks ago that had the potential to turn ugly, but due to the example set by our coach it ended well. When we arrived for the older flight 1 game we were told there were no refs so it could only be a scrimmage. About 10 min later while the players were still warming up a ref arrived, I saw him speaking to a parent of the home team so assume this parent must have known the ref, gave him a call and he got to the field in minutes. This ref wasn’t planning on referring a game that morning but was needed and came even though he knew it was an older team and there would be no ARs, thank you ref. Early in the game there was an offside call our players didn’t agree with, as soon as they expressed this our coach shouted out to them “Have respect, he is on his own”. Immediately the players settled down. Later in the game a goal was called off for the player being offside, even though this was on a throw in. As soon as the ref blew the whistle you could tell he knew he had screwed up but as the whistle came a fraction of a second before the ball crossed the line there was nothing he could do. There was certainly grumbling by the players and spectators, but I think our coach’s earlier reminder to show respect kept it to just grumbling. I believe a coach can have a great influence on the attitude of a team if he/she consistently leads by example. By the way we ended up winning the game and I do realize that it is much easier to be forgiving when you are ahead but I still think our coach deserves credit for setting an example of accepting this ref was on his own and mistakes would be made.
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Great point, and coaches should absolutely be doing this. But that's not usually what sets incidents like this off. Several hard tackles from behind that go unwhistled and uncarded, if the coaches aren't chirping, the parents will.
 
[/QUOTE]

Quality of refereeing and Lack of Ref accountability.
dad4 said:
A ref trainer at every game? Where are you going to find that many experienced referees?

They do have referee mentors. They do their best, but they can’t be everywhere. It’s more about guidance than removal.

After all, imagine what would happen if they threw out every ref who makes a bad call. Are you really OK with paying $1500 for a 3 game season?

Just accept bad calls and bad non-calls as part of the game, the same as you accept bad shots and bad passes. If it really bugs you, take the class and go help.
Click to expand...
I agree you can’t have one at every game but nothing is being done now. A Master referee showing up unannounced could lead to accountability!

Some refs seem to live in their own little fiefdom on the rules of the game. Is it soccer when refs can’t maintain a certain level of competency? Do kids give up on soccer due to the incompetence of adults?

The issue continues to be a lack of central control and accountability for refs.

Parents can be idiots but are we blaming the symptom and not looking at the root cause.
 

Quality of refereeing and Lack of Ref accountability.

I agree you can’t have one at every game but nothing is being done now. A Master referee showing up unannounced could lead to accountability!

Some refs seem to live in their own little fiefdom on the rules of the game. Is it soccer when refs can’t maintain a certain level of competency? Do kids give up on soccer due to the incompetence of adults?

The issue continues to be a lack of central control and accountability for refs.

Parents can be idiots but are we blaming the symptom and not looking at the root cause.
[/QUOTE]

Sure but better refs and getting master refs to show up unannounced, plus attend all that training isn't free. Don't we always complain about pay to play here?

You can have your soccer developmental, cheap to play, or competitive. Pick 2.
 

Quality of refereeing andv.

I agree you can’t have one at every game but nothing is being done now. A Master referee showing up unannounced could lead to accountability!

Some refs seem to live in their own little fiefdom on the rules of the game. Is it soccer when refs can’t maintain a certain level of competency? Do kids give up on soccer due to the incompetence of adults?

The issue continues to be a lack of central control and accountability for refs.

Parents can be idiots but are we blaming the symptom and not looking at the root cause.
[/QUOTE]

So, you're saying that the root cause is the referee competency meaning if the call is right then there wouldn't be any objections from players, coaches, and parents. Right the way, I will tell you that in many cases no matter what the call or no call is one side still wouldn't like it. Very obvious call for a tripping or hand ball or offside and etc. for one side is not so obvious for other side.
In my opinion, if clubs would work with coaches, players, and parents on setting the expectation on what to expect and how to react to or not to react on situations when they think it was a bad call or no call. And, I totally understand that no calls, sometimes, is the big issue for safety of the players and it might be the starting point of those crazy case scenarios.
I would agree with you that improving quality in youth refereeing will help with the situation but still officiating is not the root cause.
So, let me ask you another question. If it would be up to you what would you do to improve the quality of refereeing and what resources you would use? And I am asking this seriously. I hear a lot about lack of Ref accountability and some refs are so bad (which is true) but what would you do if you're in charge and you have tons of game to cover?
 
The club can send referee evaluations to their ref assignor so that the assignor can give some feedback to the ref. I don’t know it it makes a difference now with the ref shortage but that’s the only avenue I know to give constructive feedback. I have heard a ref assignor say that they won’t assign certain refs or will assign certain refs based on what they know about the ref, level of play, club, etc.
 
SFR said:
So, let me ask you another question. If it would be up to you what would you do to improve the quality of refereeing and what resources you would use?
Click to expand...

I have seen refs in 2021 do a drop ball between two opposing players like it’s 2015. . There is a problem.

i already stated what needs to be done
A central Master referee designation. 3-4 guys and gals visit NorCal and Calsouth games. Can’t visit all games but the progression of visits will send a message. Inspecting the games , mentoring the refs before and after the game. Checking their list for whose been naughty or nice. $25 -$50 in extra club fees to help protect the game seems small price to pay. Right now it’s the Wild West.
 
Soccermaverick said:
I have seen refs in 2021 do a drop ball between two opposing players like it’s 2015. . There is a problem.

i already stated what needs to be done
A central Master referee designation. 3-4 guys and gals visit NorCal and Calsouth games. Can’t visit all games but the progression of visits will send a message. Inspecting the games , mentoring the refs before and after the game. Checking their list for whose been naughty or nice. $25 -$50 in extra club fees to help protect the game seems small price to pay. Right now it’s the Wild West.
Click to expand...

I do think there has been a drop off in referring quality this year. I attribute this to the influx of new refs and the drop off of more experienced ones. We had a ref not understand offsides between a punt vs a goal kick. Bummer, but whatever. I worry more about the teeing up of red card scenarios that @Grace T. pointed out. Not being able to keep a game under control can have some seriously bad outcomes.
 
Soccermaverick said:
I have seen refs in 2021 do a drop ball between two opposing players like it’s 2015. . There is a problem.

i already stated what needs to be done
A central Master referee designation. 3-4 guys and gals visit NorCal and Calsouth games. Can’t visit all games but the progression of visits will send a message. Inspecting the games , mentoring the refs before and after the game. Checking their list for whose been naughty or nice. $25 -$50 in extra club fees to help protect the game seems small price to pay. Right now it’s the Wild West.
Click to expand...
Yes, there is a problem.

Take the class. Get out there and help.
 
From referee pages at bigsocccer.com --

www.bigsoccer.com

Bad stories

You guys are making me sad ... but also a little bit more determined on my almost-final decision not to go back out on the pitch next year. :( sadly,...
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