Opinions on todays transgender players?

chargerfan said:
Daily Caller is fake news, along the lines of Breitbart or Infowars. If you'd like me to read this article, you will have to find another source.
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Haha what a tool. Perhaps those non-biased organizations-CNN, NY Times, MSNBC, Huff Post, NPR, Politico, would be more up your alley.

Think you need to relocate your left wing dribble over to the 'off topic' section. They're a couple over there that would embrace you with open arms.
 
Hdyldemapples said:
Chargerfan,

Here are my responses to your post:

"Your priorities are way out of whack if you care that much about your daughter being the fastest 6th grade girl in her PE class."

Not what I said at all.

" Let's deny transgender kids the chance to run a race because some parents can't stand if their children aren't first at something!"

Nope, didn't say that either.

"In our however many years of soccer, as many teams as we have played or watched, I have never seen or heard of a transgender girl coming out and completely destroying a team."

Didn't say that either.

" It is almost like you guys are creating a threat based on no evidence whatsoever instead of admitting your prejudices?"

Nope, not true.

"For a group that throws out the term "snowflake" so much, you guys are really scared of your kids playing potentially stronger and better competition."

I never once said Snowflake.

"Maybe you guys should toughen them up a little by throwing them in a coed league in off season."

Thanks for your wonderful input.

Click to expand...

You're welcome. Playing against boys will make her much stronger and faster, so you won't need to be so concerned about the size of her competition.
 
TheIronCurtain said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... I don't disagree with the potential challenges you're describing... The International Olympic Committee has set rules governing this very issue in 2004, which I think are pretty fair, here's a brief synopsis:
  • They must have had gender reassignment surgery.
  • They must have legal recognition of their assigned gender.
  • They must have at least two years of hormone therapy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn...letes-have-an-unfair-advantage_b_4918835.html -- feel free to ignore the "opinion" piece of the article...

Now, if the *real* issue is the perception of unfair advantage gained as a result of biological advantages, those advantages are gained as a direct result of testosterone, which is what helps your body produce muscle. In a child that hasn't gone through puberty, the levels of testosterone are about the same in both boys & girls, which is probably largely you don't see much athletic differences between until they enter pre-puberty stage of their life. So, if that's the case (and there's science to prove that), this "unfair advantage" would not really exist until a certain age, right? Kids that are transitioning, are receiving Hormone Blockers (or Hormone Replacement Therapy in some cases?) to get them better aligned with hormone level appropriate for their target gender. IOC recommends 2 years of hormone therapy to counteract any real affect of hormones on the athlete...

Again, for kids hormones have not produced any advantage from physicality POV yet, and surgical re-assignment is not appropriate until later in life...

I do not see this being an issue of personal opinions or feelings, though those do influence all of our thought process. I've defended my position, thus far, from a social perspective, where I do believe that exclusion in this case is unfair for a number of reason... but back to addressing the specific concern of unfairness, do you think the IOC rules are unfair? If so, why? If not, why do you feel they wouldn't apply to this discussion? Would proof of hormone therapy in said child be enough to address your concerns?
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Don't many women contain much higher levels of testosterone than others?
 
*GOBEARGO* said:
Haha what a tool. Perhaps those non-biased organizations-CNN, NY Times, MSNBC, Huff Post, NPR, Politico, would be more up your alley.

Think you need to relocate your left wing dribble over to the 'off topic' section. They're a couple over there that would embrace you with open arms.
Click to expand...


No thanks. If you think the level of bigotry displayed here is jaw dropping, wait until you see what is said over there!
 
chargerfan said:
http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-jacobs-column-yearwood-transgender-0531-20170530-column.html

Here is the story presented in a more thoughtful, nuanced way than some conspiracy theory rag. The class displayed by all involved is to be applauded. How nice for this girl to be surrounded with so much support during her transition.
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Good article, but it also shows how this cuts both ways.

"Was it fair?
On a biologically competitive basis, it was not.
Should Yearwood be allowed to participate with the girls? Yes. Participation is paramount in high school sports. Participation with dignity is the aspiration. But the question of what constitutes fairness in the world of sports remains to be settled. "


Take a look at this article and the first picture
http://www.courant.com/sports/high-...ack-andraya-yearwood-0407-20170406-story.html

Biological difference.

Like life itself, there are no easy answers, and I can understand both sides of the discussion.
 
chargerfan said:
Don't many women contain much higher levels of testosterone than others?
Click to expand...
I'm guessing there's a normal statistical distribution of any hormone for any creature at varying age. I'm sure women, much like men have varying degrees of testosterone. But yes, I'm sure there are women that are were born w/ female reproductive organs and that identify as women that have higher levels of this hormone than some members of the male population... Genetics and nature are likely to be reasons for this imbalance, I guess we should consider leagues based on one's T-count? :)
 
socalkdg said:
Good article, but it also shows how this cuts both ways.

"Was it fair?
On a biologically competitive basis, it was not.
Should Yearwood be allowed to participate with the girls? Yes. Participation is paramount in high school sports. Participation with dignity is the aspiration. But the question of what constitutes fairness in the world of sports remains to be settled. "


Take a look at this article and the first picture
http://www.courant.com/sports/high-...ack-andraya-yearwood-0407-20170406-story.html

Biological difference.

Like life itself, there are no easy answers, and I can understand both sides of the discussion.
Click to expand...

Which is why I used the word "nuanced".
 
This is getting crazy.
As far as teaching your children acceptance of such a situation, that is 100% up to the parents of the children having to see this unnatural event and how they want to handle it. Yes I said "unnatural" as in different and not normal! NEWS FLASH to all the people arguing that this should be accepted as in any way normal, IT IS NOT IN ANYWAY NORMAL! As a matter of fact it is against Mother Nature, so when you want to try and convince/teach your child that this is OK well they all know deep down something isn't right, it is weird and odd. This crazy deal is not in the natural order of life!
I am not saying people shouldn't accept this if they choose to, and in NO WAY in hell am i saying anyone has the right to abuse a child over this. But lets just be honest this shit is off the wall!
Lets clear something up with pure facts. Take two gay men or two gay women or a transgender couple and put them on an Island for 100 years and see how Mother Nature handles them? Go back and visit the next generation. Oh wait there is not a next generation because Mother Nature did not allow it. Ya Ya I know that is harsh but it is not arguable that it is all UNNATURAL in the order of life.
 
sandshark said:
This is getting crazy.
As far as teaching your children acceptance of such a situation, that is 100% up to the parents of the children having to see this unnatural event and how they want to handle it. Yes I said "unnatural" as in different and not normal! NEWS FLASH to all the people arguing that this should be accepted as in any way normal, IT IS NOT IN ANYWAY NORMAL! As a matter of fact it is against Mother Nature, so when you want to try and convince/teach your child that this is OK well they all know deep down something isn't right, it is weird and odd. This crazy deal is not in the natural order of life!
I am not saying people shouldn't accept this if they choose to, and in NO WAY in hell am i saying anyone has the right to abuse a child over this. But lets just be honest this shit is off the wall!
Lets clear something up with pure facts. Take two gay men or two gay women or a transgender couple and put them on an Island for 100 years and see how Mother Nature handles them? Go back and visit the next generation. Oh wait there is not a next generation because Mother Nature did not allow it. Ya Ya I know that is harsh but it is not arguable that it is all UNNATURAL in the order of life.
Click to expand...
any chance you're mixing up "unnatural" and "ungodly"? two very different things and come from two very different places...
 
xav10 said:
Guess again, Joey. "Who's" as in "who has." But I assume your "literature" (Breitbart, RedState, etc.) would misspell it and call that "correct" as well.
Click to expand...
Yes, I need to stick with what I know.
Donald Trump is the president and he beat the hell out of Hillary.
 
sandshark said:
This is getting crazy.
As far as teaching your children acceptance of such a situation, that is 100% up to the parents of the children having to see this unnatural event and how they want to handle it. Yes I said "unnatural" as in different and not normal! NEWS FLASH to all the people arguing that this should be accepted as in any way normal, IT IS NOT IN ANYWAY NORMAL! As a matter of fact it is against Mother Nature, so when you want to try and convince/teach your child that this is OK well they all know deep down something isn't right, it is weird and odd. This crazy deal is not in the natural order of life!
I am not saying people shouldn't accept this if they choose to, and in NO WAY in hell am i saying anyone has the right to abuse a child over this. But lets just be honest this shit is off the wall!
Lets clear something up with pure facts. Take two gay men or two gay women or a transgender couple and put them on an Island for 100 years and see how Mother Nature handles them? Go back and visit the next generation. Oh wait there is not a next generation because Mother Nature did not allow it. Ya Ya I know that is harsh but it is not arguable that it is all UNNATURAL in the order of life.
Click to expand...

I'm so happy that I clicked on show ignored to read this, because I needed the laugh.

Where does one find the gospel of Mother Nature? Is this a religious thing? Do you pray to her at night for guidance?
 
chargerfan said:
I'm so happy that I clicked on show ignored to read this, because I needed the laugh.

Where does one find the gospel of Mother Nature? Is this a religious thing? Do you pray to her at night for guidance?
Click to expand...

Also, do you think the continuation of our species at some point will come down to gay and/or transgender people stuck on a deserted island? Is this part of the gospel of Mother Nature?
 
chargerfan said:
I'm so happy that I clicked on show ignored to read this, because I needed the laugh.

Where does one find the gospel of Mother Nature? Is this a religious thing? Do you pray to her at night for guidance?
Click to expand...

Sandshark should stick to giving those great blow jobs and quit trying to tell us what's "normal."
 
sandshark said:
This is getting crazy.
IT IS NOT IN ANYWAY NORMAL! As a matter of fact it is against Mother Nature, .
Click to expand...

O.k. I've largely stayed out of this S-show. I can honestly see both sides of the equation and don't think there are any easy answer-- on the one hand I see the value of diversity and inclusiveness especially when we are talking about something as mundane as a kids game, and on the other hand I can see the arguments about fairness and level playing field. But here's where I get off. The evidence is that for trans people that something biologically has happened....the science shows their brains are actually different....mother nature, in other words, did it to them....it's not a choice....anyone who thinks someone would chose to do that to themselves is kidding themselves because even a transition to the opposite gender is an imperfect solution for a very high cost. But that's what mother nature does....that what evolution is about....it varies people because it doesn't know what traits are more than likely to lead to the survival of the species....so people are different and why no one is "normal". I can start a list: the disabled, the alcoholic, the fat, the overly skinny, anyone with depression or anxiety issues, anyone who is too smart or too stupid, the LGBTQ, anyone who is overly athletic, anyone who is not athletic at all, anyone with an illness like heart disease asthma or diabeties, anyone with a learning disability, anyone who is poor, anyone who is rich and didn't inherit their money, and anyone with an overactive imagination or creativity. So I can accept that transgenderism itself is not "normal" if by that for anyone, any characteristic that deviates them from the standard median is not normal either (in other words, all those great DA soccer players are not "normal"). But guess what, Mother Nature is a b and everyone has something.
 
TheIronCurtain said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... I don't disagree with the potential challenges you're describing... The International Olympic Committee has set rules governing this very issue in 2004, which I think are pretty fair, here's a brief synopsis:
  • They must have had gender reassignment surgery.
  • They must have legal recognition of their assigned gender.
  • They must have at least two years of hormone therapy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn...letes-have-an-unfair-advantage_b_4918835.html -- feel free to ignore the "opinion" piece of the article...

Now, if the *real* issue is the perception of unfair advantage gained as a result of biological advantages, those advantages are gained as a direct result of testosterone, which is what helps your body produce muscle. In a child that hasn't gone through puberty, the levels of testosterone are about the same in both boys & girls, which is probably largely you don't see much athletic differences between until they enter pre-puberty stage of their life. So, if that's the case (and there's science to prove that), this "unfair advantage" would not really exist until a certain age, right? Kids that are transitioning, are receiving Hormone Blockers (or Hormone Replacement Therapy in some cases?) to get them better aligned with hormone level appropriate for their target gender. IOC recommends 2 years of hormone therapy to counteract any real affect of hormones on the athlete...

Again, for kids hormones have not produced any advantage from physicality POV yet, and surgical re-assignment is not appropriate until later in life...

I do not see this being an issue of personal opinions or feelings, though those do influence all of our thought process. I've defended my position, thus far, from a social perspective, where I do believe that exclusion in this case is unfair for a number of reason... but back to addressing the specific concern of unfairness, do you think the IOC rules are unfair? If so, why? If not, why do you feel they wouldn't apply to this discussion? Would proof of hormone therapy in said child be enough to address your concerns?
Click to expand...
That's a lot to address. I have to get my thoughts together first.
 
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