Opinions on todays transgender players?

socalkdg said:
So I read the complete article

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/04/t...s-but-wouldve-placed-last-against-boys-video/

Noted two things.

"As of April, Yearwood had yet to have a sexual reassignment surgery or take hormone and puberty blockers.". So physically still 100% boy.

"It feels really good,” said Yearwood to The Day. “I’m really happy to win both titles … I kind of expected it. I’ve always gotten first, so I expected it to some extent. … I’m really proud of it.”

So Yearwood destroys the competition, gets to be proud of the accomplishments, but our daughters need to learn to be fair to Yearwood even though physically still a boy. This is 9th grade. High School. Pretty sure after the race all the girls that competed felt they lost to a boy, not a girl. How is that helping everyone involved? Seems to have the opposite effect.
Click to expand...

Daily Caller is fake news, along the lines of Breitbart or Infowars. If you'd like me to read this article, you will have to find another source.
 
Chargerfan,

Here are my responses to your post:

"Your priorities are way out of whack if you care that much about your daughter being the fastest 6th grade girl in her PE class."

Not what I said at all.

" Let's deny transgender kids the chance to run a race because some parents can't stand if their children aren't first at something!"

Nope, didn't say that either.

"In our however many years of soccer, as many teams as we have played or watched, I have never seen or heard of a transgender girl coming out and completely destroying a team."

Didn't say that either.

" It is almost like you guys are creating a threat based on no evidence whatsoever instead of admitting your prejudices?"

Nope, not true.

"For a group that throws out the term "snowflake" so much, you guys are really scared of your kids playing potentially stronger and better competition."

I never once said Snowflake.

"Maybe you guys should toughen them up a little by throwing them in a coed league in off season."

Thanks for your wonderful input.


 
Hdyldemapples said:
In my opinion, fairness is the issue. And yes I know we need to be sensitive to what a transgender adolescent is going through, but at whose expense?

Being transgender causes a fairness issue when a boy is identifying as a girl. There doesn't seem to be an issue when a girl wants to play as a boy or on a boys team because girls, even the best girls, aren't a threat to a high level male sport. However, even the average boy who identifies as a girl is better than most girls in any sport. That's where the unfair advantage occurs.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dail...s-but-wouldve-placed-last-against-boys-video/

For example, what if your daughter was a great sprinter, worked hard everyday to beat the top girls and then finds out she will be racing a boy who identifies as a girl? How do you explain this to an adolescent girl who has given everything to be the fastest female possible to lose because someone is struggling with gender identity? Now if it was the reverse and a girl who identifies as a boy was racing boys, well different results for sure. Boys wouldn't be threatened, so it's easier to accept.

Just plain and simple, boys are made stronger than girls. Any average boy who identifies as a girl would beat most highly ranked females in any sport (track, tennis, golf, XC, swimming, soccer, wrestling, basketball, etc). Yes, the percentage of it happening is low but if you are that one or two top female athlete being beat by a boy identifying as a female, that would be devastating. How do you explain that to your adolescent daughter when she comes in second or third place to a girl with the muscles and build of someone who was born a boy? I'm sure most parents would sympathize with the adolescent who is struggling with gender identity issues, but we also have to go home and explain and calm our own adolescents going thru their own stuff. Life is hard for all of our kids finding their way thru life's challenges.

I am not against transgender adolescents playing sports, but we have to be sensitive to all adolescents and their hard work.

I'm not sure what the answer is to all of this, however, there are some things that need to be worked out in competitive sports especially female sports.

Again, just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... I don't disagree with the potential challenges you're describing... The International Olympic Committee has set rules governing this very issue in 2004, which I think are pretty fair, here's a brief synopsis:
  • They must have had gender reassignment surgery.
  • They must have legal recognition of their assigned gender.
  • They must have at least two years of hormone therapy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn...letes-have-an-unfair-advantage_b_4918835.html -- feel free to ignore the "opinion" piece of the article...

Now, if the *real* issue is the perception of unfair advantage gained as a result of biological advantages, those advantages are gained as a direct result of testosterone, which is what helps your body produce muscle. In a child that hasn't gone through puberty, the levels of testosterone are about the same in both boys & girls, which is probably largely you don't see much athletic differences between until they enter pre-puberty stage of their life. So, if that's the case (and there's science to prove that), this "unfair advantage" would not really exist until a certain age, right? Kids that are transitioning, are receiving Hormone Blockers (or Hormone Replacement Therapy in some cases?) to get them better aligned with hormone level appropriate for their target gender. IOC recommends 2 years of hormone therapy to counteract any real affect of hormones on the athlete...

Again, for kids hormones have not produced any advantage from physicality POV yet, and surgical re-assignment is not appropriate until later in life...

I do not see this being an issue of personal opinions or feelings, though those do influence all of our thought process. I've defended my position, thus far, from a social perspective, where I do believe that exclusion in this case is unfair for a number of reason... but back to addressing the specific concern of unfairness, do you think the IOC rules are unfair? If so, why? If not, why do you feel they wouldn't apply to this discussion? Would proof of hormone therapy in said child be enough to address your concerns?
 
chargerfan said:
Daily Caller is fake news, along the lines of Breitbart or Infowars. If you'd like me to read this article, you will have to find another source.
Click to expand...


Haha what a tool. Perhaps those non-biased organizations-CNN, NY Times, MSNBC, Huff Post, NPR, Politico, would be more up your alley.

Think you need to relocate your left wing dribble over to the 'off topic' section. They're a couple over there that would embrace you with open arms.
 
Hdyldemapples said:
Chargerfan,

Here are my responses to your post:

"Your priorities are way out of whack if you care that much about your daughter being the fastest 6th grade girl in her PE class."

Not what I said at all.

" Let's deny transgender kids the chance to run a race because some parents can't stand if their children aren't first at something!"

Nope, didn't say that either.

"In our however many years of soccer, as many teams as we have played or watched, I have never seen or heard of a transgender girl coming out and completely destroying a team."

Didn't say that either.

" It is almost like you guys are creating a threat based on no evidence whatsoever instead of admitting your prejudices?"

Nope, not true.

"For a group that throws out the term "snowflake" so much, you guys are really scared of your kids playing potentially stronger and better competition."

I never once said Snowflake.

"Maybe you guys should toughen them up a little by throwing them in a coed league in off season."

Thanks for your wonderful input.

Click to expand...

You're welcome. Playing against boys will make her much stronger and faster, so you won't need to be so concerned about the size of her competition.
 
TheIronCurtain said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... I don't disagree with the potential challenges you're describing... The International Olympic Committee has set rules governing this very issue in 2004, which I think are pretty fair, here's a brief synopsis:
  • They must have had gender reassignment surgery.
  • They must have legal recognition of their assigned gender.
  • They must have at least two years of hormone therapy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn...letes-have-an-unfair-advantage_b_4918835.html -- feel free to ignore the "opinion" piece of the article...

Now, if the *real* issue is the perception of unfair advantage gained as a result of biological advantages, those advantages are gained as a direct result of testosterone, which is what helps your body produce muscle. In a child that hasn't gone through puberty, the levels of testosterone are about the same in both boys & girls, which is probably largely you don't see much athletic differences between until they enter pre-puberty stage of their life. So, if that's the case (and there's science to prove that), this "unfair advantage" would not really exist until a certain age, right? Kids that are transitioning, are receiving Hormone Blockers (or Hormone Replacement Therapy in some cases?) to get them better aligned with hormone level appropriate for their target gender. IOC recommends 2 years of hormone therapy to counteract any real affect of hormones on the athlete...

Again, for kids hormones have not produced any advantage from physicality POV yet, and surgical re-assignment is not appropriate until later in life...

I do not see this being an issue of personal opinions or feelings, though those do influence all of our thought process. I've defended my position, thus far, from a social perspective, where I do believe that exclusion in this case is unfair for a number of reason... but back to addressing the specific concern of unfairness, do you think the IOC rules are unfair? If so, why? If not, why do you feel they wouldn't apply to this discussion? Would proof of hormone therapy in said child be enough to address your concerns?
Click to expand...

Don't many women contain much higher levels of testosterone than others?
 
*GOBEARGO* said:
Haha what a tool. Perhaps those non-biased organizations-CNN, NY Times, MSNBC, Huff Post, NPR, Politico, would be more up your alley.

Think you need to relocate your left wing dribble over to the 'off topic' section. They're a couple over there that would embrace you with open arms.
Click to expand...


No thanks. If you think the level of bigotry displayed here is jaw dropping, wait until you see what is said over there!
 
chargerfan said:
http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-jacobs-column-yearwood-transgender-0531-20170530-column.html

Here is the story presented in a more thoughtful, nuanced way than some conspiracy theory rag. The class displayed by all involved is to be applauded. How nice for this girl to be surrounded with so much support during her transition.
Click to expand...
Good article, but it also shows how this cuts both ways.

"Was it fair?
On a biologically competitive basis, it was not.
Should Yearwood be allowed to participate with the girls? Yes. Participation is paramount in high school sports. Participation with dignity is the aspiration. But the question of what constitutes fairness in the world of sports remains to be settled. "


Take a look at this article and the first picture
http://www.courant.com/sports/high-...ack-andraya-yearwood-0407-20170406-story.html

Biological difference.

Like life itself, there are no easy answers, and I can understand both sides of the discussion.
 
chargerfan said:
Don't many women contain much higher levels of testosterone than others?
Click to expand...
I'm guessing there's a normal statistical distribution of any hormone for any creature at varying age. I'm sure women, much like men have varying degrees of testosterone. But yes, I'm sure there are women that are were born w/ female reproductive organs and that identify as women that have higher levels of this hormone than some members of the male population... Genetics and nature are likely to be reasons for this imbalance, I guess we should consider leagues based on one's T-count? :)
 
socalkdg said:
Good article, but it also shows how this cuts both ways.

"Was it fair?
On a biologically competitive basis, it was not.
Should Yearwood be allowed to participate with the girls? Yes. Participation is paramount in high school sports. Participation with dignity is the aspiration. But the question of what constitutes fairness in the world of sports remains to be settled. "


Take a look at this article and the first picture
http://www.courant.com/sports/high-...ack-andraya-yearwood-0407-20170406-story.html

Biological difference.

Like life itself, there are no easy answers, and I can understand both sides of the discussion.
Click to expand...

Which is why I used the word "nuanced".
 
This is getting crazy.
As far as teaching your children acceptance of such a situation, that is 100% up to the parents of the children having to see this unnatural event and how they want to handle it. Yes I said "unnatural" as in different and not normal! NEWS FLASH to all the people arguing that this should be accepted as in any way normal, IT IS NOT IN ANYWAY NORMAL! As a matter of fact it is against Mother Nature, so when you want to try and convince/teach your child that this is OK well they all know deep down something isn't right, it is weird and odd. This crazy deal is not in the natural order of life!
I am not saying people shouldn't accept this if they choose to, and in NO WAY in hell am i saying anyone has the right to abuse a child over this. But lets just be honest this shit is off the wall!
Lets clear something up with pure facts. Take two gay men or two gay women or a transgender couple and put them on an Island for 100 years and see how Mother Nature handles them? Go back and visit the next generation. Oh wait there is not a next generation because Mother Nature did not allow it. Ya Ya I know that is harsh but it is not arguable that it is all UNNATURAL in the order of life.
 
sandshark said:
This is getting crazy.
As far as teaching your children acceptance of such a situation, that is 100% up to the parents of the children having to see this unnatural event and how they want to handle it. Yes I said "unnatural" as in different and not normal! NEWS FLASH to all the people arguing that this should be accepted as in any way normal, IT IS NOT IN ANYWAY NORMAL! As a matter of fact it is against Mother Nature, so when you want to try and convince/teach your child that this is OK well they all know deep down something isn't right, it is weird and odd. This crazy deal is not in the natural order of life!
I am not saying people shouldn't accept this if they choose to, and in NO WAY in hell am i saying anyone has the right to abuse a child over this. But lets just be honest this shit is off the wall!
Lets clear something up with pure facts. Take two gay men or two gay women or a transgender couple and put them on an Island for 100 years and see how Mother Nature handles them? Go back and visit the next generation. Oh wait there is not a next generation because Mother Nature did not allow it. Ya Ya I know that is harsh but it is not arguable that it is all UNNATURAL in the order of life.
Click to expand...
any chance you're mixing up "unnatural" and "ungodly"? two very different things and come from two very different places...
 
xav10 said:
Guess again, Joey. "Who's" as in "who has." But I assume your "literature" (Breitbart, RedState, etc.) would misspell it and call that "correct" as well.
Click to expand...
Yes, I need to stick with what I know.
Donald Trump is the president and he beat the hell out of Hillary.
 
sandshark said:
This is getting crazy.
As far as teaching your children acceptance of such a situation, that is 100% up to the parents of the children having to see this unnatural event and how they want to handle it. Yes I said "unnatural" as in different and not normal! NEWS FLASH to all the people arguing that this should be accepted as in any way normal, IT IS NOT IN ANYWAY NORMAL! As a matter of fact it is against Mother Nature, so when you want to try and convince/teach your child that this is OK well they all know deep down something isn't right, it is weird and odd. This crazy deal is not in the natural order of life!
I am not saying people shouldn't accept this if they choose to, and in NO WAY in hell am i saying anyone has the right to abuse a child over this. But lets just be honest this shit is off the wall!
Lets clear something up with pure facts. Take two gay men or two gay women or a transgender couple and put them on an Island for 100 years and see how Mother Nature handles them? Go back and visit the next generation. Oh wait there is not a next generation because Mother Nature did not allow it. Ya Ya I know that is harsh but it is not arguable that it is all UNNATURAL in the order of life.
Click to expand...

I'm so happy that I clicked on show ignored to read this, because I needed the laugh.

Where does one find the gospel of Mother Nature? Is this a religious thing? Do you pray to her at night for guidance?
 
chargerfan said:
I'm so happy that I clicked on show ignored to read this, because I needed the laugh.

Where does one find the gospel of Mother Nature? Is this a religious thing? Do you pray to her at night for guidance?
Click to expand...

Also, do you think the continuation of our species at some point will come down to gay and/or transgender people stuck on a deserted island? Is this part of the gospel of Mother Nature?
 
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