Let Them Play CA

Glitterhater said:
So we are supposed to be going out of state 1x a month for 3 months in a row, (starting in March.)
I would much rather be restricted to local league play if it meant not such a large travel expense.
Click to expand...

CA teams will be in AZ this weekend, at the Barca facility in Casa Grande playing against each other. I don't know who, how many etc. My source is pretty reliable, just terrible with the details.

We complain about driving that far to play against against local clubs, can't imagine driving from SOCAL to play a team down the street.
 
dad4 said:
Not sure why we are arguing about whether kids wear masks during games. Whether we agree or not, there is nothing we can do.

In CA, the remaining issue is when we have games, and how best to organize games within the restrictions. No tournaments and same/neighboring county makes it more difficult.
Click to expand...
The irony of this is that in CA there are many soccer (or lacrosse) games without masks going on at parks where teams normally train, but if you have a uniform and a coach, your club could get in trouble. In fact, I haven't seen a single game at the park where the participants were wearing masks. Lots of jumping through hoops restrictions applied to organized sports for zero gain on any level. This type of "leadership" is just virtue signaling. And again, there is the myopic view that somehow, whatever they do when they aren't playing organized sports is a lower risk than participation in the sport. If it's not, we get further from the end of the virus.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
The irony of this is that in CA there are many soccer (or lacrosse) games without masks going on at parks where teams normally train, but if you have a uniform and a coach, your club could get in trouble. In fact, I haven't seen a single game at the park where the participants were wearing masks. Lots of jumping through hoops restrictions applied to organized sports for zero gain on any level. This type of "leadership" is just virtue signaling. And again, there is the myopic view that somehow, whatever they do when they aren't playing organized sports is a lower risk than participation in the sport. If it's not, we get further from the end of the virus.
Click to expand...

95% of governing is virtue signaling and pencil whipping, and that's during "normal" periods. Throw in a pandemic, when burokrats need to bring their A game, the virtue signaling gets worse.

We will see how many CA teams show up in AZ for the Presidents Day Tournament. It usually attracts 400+ teams from all over the country and England, with plenty of coaches in attendance. This year likely looking at 300 or less and without City of Phoenix fields.

Hopefully you guys sort this out soon and can get back to some semblance of normality.
 
MARsSPEED said:
Wanted to post a contrast of States once again for you guys.

I live in Montgomery County, MD. Montgomery County is Democratic. Maryland is considered a Blue state although we have a Republican Governer. Policies are set forth by each county. Anne Arundel and Frederick Counties have the toughest regulations on youth sports currently.

Restaurants were running at 75% Capacity up until Thanksgiving and are now at 50%.

As for youth sports as a whole, everything outdoors except football are practicing and playing games. Even some indoor events are allowed (5v5, etc). No basketball is being played. This has pretty much been the case since last June.

As for masks, we had a couple weeks that kid had to wear masks while playing. It didn't last as it was found to be unhealthy by some counties in Maryland.

I would call Maryland's CoVid policy relaxed as compared to Pennsylvania and California. What has been pushed is wearing masks everywhere with the exception of physical activity.

Now this is what is interesting...Maryland has the 5th highest density of persons per square mile of all 50 states however Maryland is 44th out of 50 in CoVid cases per Million. I really hope some of these states start looking at what is different for cases per million and what type of policies are different. Youth soccer games allowed including 11v11. Only one parent allowed per player at games. No masks while playing.

To make a closer comparison to California, Florida (and we all know about Florida's CoVid Policies) ranks 8th in population density and 30th out of 50 in CoVid cases per million. That is actually pretty impressive for a State that has mostly remained open, similar to Maryland. Youth soccer games are allowed, even 11v11. More than one parent allowed. No masks while playing.

And for those that are curious, California ranks 11th in population density and is 24th in CoVid cases per million with some of the toughest policies in place. California also has the worse numbers of the "Big 3". Youth soccer games not allowed.

Now, to play advocate for for tougher policies, New York, known to have the toughest, does beat both Florida and California in this metric.

In conclusion, from what I see, I think Maryland is the "Happy" medium here both with tough vs open policy and in youth sports. Outdoor youth sports with little physical contact does not spread CoVid and I think it's obvious at this point.

Take it for what it's worth.
Click to expand...
The biggest difference between MD and CA may be housing.

Our low income residents live 2 or 3 to a room. We don't give them any choice. Most cities are very restrictive about construction.

Baltimore has an excess of housing stock. I would bet not many people there try to cram 6 people into a one bedroom.

That may result in our in home clusters infecting more people than your in home clusters.
 
dad4 said:
Not sure why we are arguing about whether kids wear masks during games. Whether we agree or not, there is nothing we can do.

In CA, the remaining issue is when we have games, and how best to organize games within the restrictions. No tournaments and same/neighboring county makes it more difficult.
Click to expand...

Arguing for the same reason we argue anything on these boards. But jeez you have a defeatist attitude here :)

NorCal has already communicated they're read to roll whether it's intra-county or beyond. Not sure how that would all play out, but considering teams self schedule, and clubs provide refs and fields, I'm not sure what there really is to do. Probably all backend work. Honestly I will just be stoked if our kids can have normal practices and scrimmage intra-club.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
The irony of this is that in CA there are many soccer (or lacrosse) games without masks going on at parks where teams normally train, but if you have a uniform and a coach, your club could get in trouble. In fact, I haven't seen a single game at the park where the participants were wearing masks. Lots of jumping through hoops restrictions applied to organized sports for zero gain on any level. This type of "leadership" is just virtue signaling. And again, there is the myopic view that somehow, whatever they do when they aren't playing organized sports is a lower risk than participation in the sport. If it's not, we get further from the end of the virus.
Click to expand...

100% this!

Rules only work if people follow them. You will have much better success getting large groups of people to follow rules if you make them as least restrictive as possible and backed by science.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Isn't this the correct path for a democratic society to take, anytime? We seem to have lost the first idea and bastardized the second.
Click to expand...

Yeah not sure what happened. I mean the retrospectives in pretty much every area of academia is going to spawn thousands of Ph.D. thesis papers. The completely disjointed public policy from the previous administration all the way down to local municipalities has been abhorrent. From Trump and all his cronies downplaying the virus, to Fauci doing the media circuit like he's a rock star, to all the fake scientific "journalism", to Newsom dining at the French Laundry.....just a disgrace the whole thing. And we wonder why people aren't following the rules? We don't know our arse from our elbow.

Honestly, I'm probably mostly upset at this because our family is a bunch of boring rule followers. We know people scrimmaging, breaking the rules, etc. It's really forced me to challenge my moral compass. I know deep down the rules have no grounding in science/data, so I can't be mad at them. At the same time we want to teach our kids that it's important to follow the rules. So damn frustrating.
 
NorCalDad said:
Yeah not sure what happened. I mean the retrospectives in pretty much every area of academia is going to spawn thousands of Ph.D. thesis papers. The completely disjointed public policy from the previous administration all the way down to local municipalities has been abhorrent. From Trump and all his cronies downplaying the virus, to Fauci doing the media circuit like he's a rock star, to all the fake scientific "journalism", to Newsom dining at the French Laundry.....just a disgrace the whole thing. And we wonder why people aren't following the rules? We don't know our arse from our elbow.

Honestly, I'm probably mostly upset at this because our family is a bunch of boring rule followers. We know people scrimmaging, breaking the rules, etc. It's really forced me to challenge my moral compass. I know deep down the rules have no grounding in science/data, so I can't be mad at them.At the same time we want to teach our kids that it's important to follow the rules. So damn frustrating.
Click to expand...

totally not challenging your parenting (pls don’t take it as such...totally respect) at all but don’t we want to teach kids to follow rational Moral rules? For example we wouldn’t want to teach them to support segregation if it was the order Of the day and applaud their decision to sit at a counter with a POC even if it violates the rules? Or if a soldier, to disobey a rule that commits a war crime? Or if it’s an order at work that is unethical or hurts someone? arent the California rules immoral and hurtful when it comes to children?
 
Grace T. said:
totally not challenging your parenting (pls don’t take it as such...totally respect) at all but don’t we want to teach kids to follow rational Moral rules? For example we wouldn’t want to teach them to support segregation if it was the order Of the day and applaud their decision to sit at a counter with a POC even if it violates the rules? Or if a soldier, to disobey a rule that commits a war crime? Or if it’s an order at work that is unethical or hurts someone? arent the California rules immoral and hurtful when it comes to children?
Click to expand...

100% agree with what you're saying here. We absolutely teach our kids to challenge things. In this case the communications around this whole thing have been so incredibly inconsistent. I mean I can probably count 2-3 times where we thought the youth sports rules were going to change for the better. Throw in an election and an insurrection, there just seemed bigger life lessons to teach.
 
Great comments by everyone today.

I believe what those of us that are sane are talking about is a balanced, or a targeted approach. I don't think any of us are talking about just ripping the bandaid off with zero restrictions across the board. We can be open with restrictions, its been proven by all the creative measures that businesses have taken to protect their customers. Is there a business out there that has said "I'm not going to open if have to put up a plastic barrier"? I don't think so. Is there anyone that has said "I'm not going to allow my kid to play a soccer if I have to stand 6 feet away from other parents?", not many, if any, I suspect. While we may question the effectiveness of certain restrictions, I believe the vast majority of us are willing to compromise and comply with social distancing and mask wearing (with the exception of vigorous activity which is simply ridiculous), if our kids can go to school and play sports.

The problem is that not only is science being completely ignored for political reasons, but that politics have turned into this zero sum game. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. There is no middle ground. In this case our children are the losers and they have shouldered a substantially disproportionate share of the burden both short term and most concerning, long term, particularly for those less privileged kids. Ultimately, society will suffer because of what our politicians have done to kids. Our children have very little risk for the virus and have little impact on the spread of the virus.

NorCalDad, I'm generally a rule follower and not typically a "question authority" guy, but these restrictions are about politics and control, not about science and good governance. I'm ultimately responsible for my child's welfare and the mandates have crossed a line I can't accept. Fortunately, my kids are capable of seeing through the BS. Fortunately or unfortunately, they were born with the same natural skepticism that I have and question things regardless of source.
 
[
watfly said:
Great comments by everyone today.

I believe what those of us that are sane are talking about is a balanced, or a targeted approach. I don't think any of us are talking about just ripping the bandaid off with zero restrictions across the board. We can be open with restrictions, its been proven by all the creative measures that businesses have taken to protect their customers. Is there a business out there that has said "I'm not going to open if have to put up a plastic barrier"? I don't think so. Is there anyone that has said "I'm not going to allow my kid to play a soccer if I have to stand 6 feet away from other parents?", not many, if any, I suspect. While we may question the effectiveness of certain restrictions, I believe the vast majority of us are willing to compromise and comply with social distancing and mask wearing (with the exception of vigorous activity which is simply ridiculous), if our kids can go to school and play sports.

The problem is that not only is science being completely ignored for political reasons, but that politics have turned into this zero sum game. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. There is no middle ground. In this case our children are the losers and they have shouldered a substantially disproportionate share of the burden both short term and most concerning, long term, particularly for those less privileged kids. Ultimately, society will suffer because of what our politicians have done to kids. Our children have very little risk for the virus and have little impact on the spread of the virus.

NorCalDad, I'm generally a rule follower and not typically a "question authority" guy, but these restrictions are about politics and control, not about science and good governance. I'm ultimately responsible for my child's welfare and the mandates have crossed a line I can't accept. Fortunately, my kids are capable of seeing through the BS. Fortunately or unfortunately, they were born with the same natural skepticism that I have and question things regardless of source.
Click to expand...
100% agree with your statement. This is an online forum about kid's soccer so the majority of the conversation centers on that. You are right, these kids have disproportionately shouldered this burden and I think people lose sight of that both in terms of short term and long terms affects.
 
watfly said:
Great comments by everyone today.

I believe what those of us that are sane are talking about is a balanced, or a targeted approach. I don't think any of us are talking about just ripping the bandaid off with zero restrictions across the board. We can be open with restrictions, its been proven by all the creative measures that businesses have taken to protect their customers. Is there a business out there that has said "I'm not going to open if have to put up a plastic barrier"? I don't think so. Is there anyone that has said "I'm not going to allow my kid to play a soccer if I have to stand 6 feet away from other parents?", not many, if any, I suspect. While we may question the effectiveness of certain restrictions, I believe the vast majority of us are willing to compromise and comply with social distancing and mask wearing (with the exception of vigorous activity which is simply ridiculous), if our kids can go to school and play sports.

The problem is that not only is science being completely ignored for political reasons, but that politics have turned into this zero sum game. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. There is no middle ground. In this case our children are the losers and they have shouldered a substantially disproportionate share of the burden both short term and most concerning, long term, particularly for those less privileged kids. Ultimately, society will suffer because of what our politicians have done to kids. Our children have very little risk for the virus and have little impact on the spread of the virus.

NorCalDad, I'm generally a rule follower and not typically a "question authority" guy, but these restrictions are about politics and control, not about science and good governance. I'm ultimately responsible for my child's welfare and the mandates have crossed a line I can't accept. Fortunately, my kids are capable of seeing through the BS. Fortunately or unfortunately, they were born with the same natural skepticism that I have and question things regardless of source.
Click to expand...
I never found it hard to teach teenagers to challenge rules.

Teaching them when to challenge rules, now that is more difficult...
 
I hear a lawsuit has been filed in San Diego to force the immediate resumption of high school sports. The basis is apparently that the rules forbidding sports lack any rational scientific basis since there isn't evidence of outdoor transmission being a high vector. Any one have any additional details?

BTW, with the efficiency of the J&J vaccine so low and with the under 16 not likely to receive the vaccine until fall (or for the under 12 into 2022), and with anywhere from 1/4-1/3 of pop not willing to get the vaccine (or a particular vaccine....don't want the Moderna for fear it's new....or don't want J&J for fear it's not good enough), I don't see us getting to a point where we don't have outbreaks. Given the yellow tier especially and the orange tier too are so sensitive, even with herd immunity and seasonality effects, we may still have outbreaks into fall 2021 that will at a minimum disrupt sports. Unless the rules get changed, I really don't see us getting back to normal until the spring of 2022 at the earliest. We may have soccer in some places in the late spring...in most places in the summer...but especially those high density and low density counties will have play disrupted from time to time and have to deal with restrictions (county play, masks, no tournaments) for a very very long time as long as the current rules remain in place and I don't really see much hope for basketball except for maybe summer outdoor leagues.
 
chiefs said:
daygofootball.com

Parents Sue Gavin Newsom over Youth Sports Restrictions

On January 28th a lawsuit was filed in San Diego Superior Court asking for all High School and youth sports to begin. Defendants include Governor Gavin Newsom, CDPH and local health officials. The …
daygofootball.com daygofootball.com
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t put any faith in judges to help. With no science judges have sat back and watched this governor shutdown schools and business. Besides a couple that sided to open up restaurants only to have the appeals courts stay the orders. Judges like teachers and government have failed our children. A lot of failure all around by all organizations and bureaucracies.
 
Grace T. said:
I hear a lawsuit has been filed in San Diego to force the immediate resumption of high school sports. The basis is apparently that the rules forbidding sports lack any rational scientific basis since there isn't evidence of outdoor transmission being a high vector. Any one have any additional details?

BTW, with the efficiency of the J&J vaccine so low and with the under 16 not likely to receive the vaccine until fall (or for the under 12 into 2022), and with anywhere from 1/4-1/3 of pop not willing to get the vaccine (or a particular vaccine....don't want the Moderna for fear it's new....or don't want J&J for fear it's not good enough), I don't see us getting to a point where we don't have outbreaks. Given the yellow tier especially and the orange tier too are so sensitive, even with herd immunity and seasonality effects, we may still have outbreaks into fall 2021 that will at a minimum disrupt sports. Unless the rules get changed, I really don't see us getting back to normal until the spring of 2022 at the earliest. We may have soccer in some places in the late spring...in most places in the summer...but especially those high density and low density counties will have play disrupted from time to time and have to deal with restrictions (county play, masks, no tournaments) for a very very long time as long as the current rules remain in place and I don't really see much hope for basketball except for maybe summer outdoor leagues.
Click to expand...

Presumably you're talking about CA here? If by fall of this year our kids aren't back in school full time, we will likely look at moving out of the state, maybe out of the country. Of course, this presumes no new variant that's spreading nationally. I say this boldly knowing our kids will likely be back full time in the Fall. Our district is already talking about changing things this spring, so that's good.
 
Grace T. said:
I hear a lawsuit has been filed in San Diego to force the immediate resumption of high school sports. The basis is apparently that the rules forbidding sports lack any rational scientific basis since there isn't evidence of outdoor transmission being a high vector. Any one have any additional details?

BTW, with the efficiency of the J&J vaccine so low and with the under 16 not likely to receive the vaccine until fall (or for the under 12 into 2022), and with anywhere from 1/4-1/3 of pop not willing to get the vaccine (or a particular vaccine....don't want the Moderna for fear it's new....or don't want J&J for fear it's not good enough), I don't see us getting to a point where we don't have outbreaks. Given the yellow tier especially and the orange tier too are so sensitive, even with herd immunity and seasonality effects, we may still have outbreaks into fall 2021 that will at a minimum disrupt sports. Unless the rules get changed, I really don't see us getting back to normal until the spring of 2022 at the earliest. We may have soccer in some places in the late spring...in most places in the summer...but especially those high density and low density counties will have play disrupted from time to time and have to deal with restrictions (county play, masks, no tournaments) for a very very long time as long as the current rules remain in place and I don't really see much hope for basketball except for maybe summer outdoor leagues.
Click to expand...

So I did some rough calculations. The daily case rate has dropped by about 30% over the last couple weeks. If we are lucky enough that it continues to drop at that rate it will take about 5 weeks to get to the Red Tier. Then you have to stay in that tier for 3 weeks before moving to the next tier. That means approx. 8 weeks before the Orange Moderate Tier. I know this isn't totally scientific and there are a tremendous amount of variables, but at least it kind of gives you a picture of what could be.
 
NorCalDad said:
Presumably you're talking about CA here? If by fall of this year our kids aren't back in school full time, we will likely look at moving out of the state, maybe out of the country. Of course, this presumes no new variant that's spreading nationally. I say this boldly knowing our kids will likely be back full time in the Fall. Our district is already talking about changing things this spring, so that's good.
Click to expand...
Good luck getting a UHaul!
 
soccersc said:
So I did some rough calculations. The daily case rate has dropped by about 30% over the last couple weeks. If we are lucky enough that it continues to drop at that rate it will take about 5 weeks to get to the Red Tier. Then you have to stay in that tier for 3 weeks before moving to the next tier. That means approx. 8 weeks before the Orange Moderate Tier. I know this isn't totally scientific and there are a tremendous amount of variables, but at least it kind of gives you a picture of what could be.
Click to expand...

The good news is the drop off in both positivity and cases is fairly steep so yeah we have a shot somewhere of hitting that orange tier in 8 weeks (LA County is also following the same projections and is doing better than VC).

The bad news, though, is given how sensitive the tier system is it's easy for a small outbreak to ruin things (particularly from yellow-orange, or orange-red) in a county. Remember it's the worse of cases or positivity: so test a lot of people and cases get worse....test only people suspected of getting being sick and positivity goes up. The high density counties could see localized outbreaks due to the packed living and conditions at work. The low density county only need a handful of cases to get bumped up a tier since its adjusted based on population. Under the system, assuming better herd immunity and seasonality and no 3rd wave, it will be easy to get to red, a small bad outbreak (even if localized like the Orthodox outbreaks in NY or Israel) can get you bumped out of orange, and it's very hard to get to yellow. The system also works in favor of mid size counties (like the OC and VC) to the detriment or larger and smaller ones.

NorCalDad said:
Presumably you're talking about CA here? If by fall of this year our kids aren't back in school full time, we will likely look at moving out of the state, maybe out of the country. Of course, this presumes no new variant that's spreading nationally. I say this boldly knowing our kids will likely be back full time in the Fall. Our district is already talking about changing things this spring, so that's good.
Click to expand...

Lucky for you you are in NorCal but I'd put it at more than 50% that LA County schools won't be open full time this fall (particularly not the middle school and high schools). Under the tier system LA's high density makes it very easy for localized outbreaks to go and the tier system is overly sensitive. The LA teacher's unions have really dug in and have said the vaccine is not enough (and now with the J&J vaccine at less than perfect efficiency they have that as well). Neither the Biden nor the Newsom admin seems to show much political will to stand up to the unions. Planning in LAUSD is already underway for at least a hybrid part time system that will limit the number of kids on campus. Several employers have already told people we may be remote into 2022 unless the SoCal schools reopen and even then they don't expect a maskless return to normal until well into 2022.

I'm not saying this is the future we are locked into. But barring some seismic political change (the recall, a parents rebellions, a court standing up to Newsom, intervention by Biden), I'm more bearish than bullish on a full time return to normal in LA County schools this fall.

If you lived in LA, I'd say you might want to try and get a Uhaul reservation now. I hear they are hard to come by.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top