Ladera Surf?? Becoming OC Surf?
- Thread starter soccerdad05
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soccerdad05
SILVER
Maybe you can help clear the air and give some facts.
If Ladera Surf will be in SCDSL next year, why aren't they listed on the final list: http://scdslsoccer.com/club-directory ??
Simple question that will clear the air for your club. I am sure many Ladera families are hearing about this, you can help your club by shedding some light on this for everyone.
Really this thread wasn't to bash the coaches, just trying to figure out what is going on for the Fall. You seem to believe there without a doubt you will be in SCDSL next Fall, what is your logic?
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
The problem isnt they have day jobs, the problem is at clubs that are properly setup, they have people who are "soccer people" in charge. In fact some even have pro-bono lawyers, community members, officials from the city they are located in and many more. Having a C, B, A license doesnt tell you anything about the quality of the individual or the quality of the coaching. I know many coaches in the Mexican leagues who dont have licenses, played professionally, played on their national teams and develop kids that are technically superior to most coaches...period. "Possession Soccer" is now some marketing term they throw out to every parent - along with "playing out the back". Hell I have licenses, not hard to come by, but my ethics would never let me take on a club team - wouldnt be fair to the kids. I will say though, a B does mean he put some effort in. Also, a properly run club should have a HIGH percentage of coaches at C level and higher. Club im involved with probably has the most A licensed coaches around. As far as not teaching kickball, you must not watch enough games or convinced yourself you arent being duped. The FACT is most clubs at Surf dont play possession. They in fact play through the center via attempted through-balls and balls over the top. Works pretty well at younger ages and levels where kids are not very good with their heads or clearing the ball. Once you understand that, not hard to take the ball and counter. Again,
I have experience with clubs, admins and fee structure. NO CLUB, any properly run club that isnt solely motivated by money, has individuals who run ALL ASPECTS of the club. You can not be the manager of every team, assistant coach of every team while being the person in charge of said club. In fact, he coaches teams that he isnt even listed as the coach for - not shady or anything. I see Ladera teams playing without enough kids - wont shut a flight down due to low numbers. This only occurs, and you can run a search on here and threads on boards across the country, when someone doesnt anyone else to see how the finances are run and just putting teams out to make money. You claim misinformation but you obviously have never talked to refs, former coaches, former club parents (from one of the many different names he has had over the years) and other this guy argues with or he has screwed over.
Lets say, for the sake of argument, we are all Full of Shit. Not like I have never told Townson in his face he is full of shit and shouldnt be in charge of anything to do with children. Even Lets say, like you claim, we only talk crap over the computer. Lets examine one issue. The game forfeits and how they have come about:
Fact: Anaheim Surf Ladera has field space because of AYSO. (not a secret)
Fact: Anaheim Surf Ladera isnt getting space through proper channels. If this wasnt true, their would never be any games being forfeited over "field conflicts" - as they would have fields to play on.
Fact: Improprieties have had to occur in order to even have the ability to forfeit the games. A club MUST SUBMIT fields (and times) for scheduling for the SCDSL season. This is why it takes forever to get a damn schedule from SCDSL, even up to a couple weeks prior to the season begins. This means this turd submitted fields/times for games that were never going to happen. Most likely this was due to AYSO having games scheduled. You know, the real reason why he has a club - AYSO.
So lets breakdown that even further why this happened. This guy didnt want to pay for other fields, because its EXPENSIVE. Which means no money for him or anyone at the top. You cant piss of AYSO/parents because AYSO is huge and drop the hammer on this guy - which means bye-bye extra income. So the easy choice for him is to forfeit games and just schedule crap that was never going to happen. Most parents he is dealing with dont have a clue. So easy to say "coach not available", "field screw up", "not enough players", etc. So the fucked up part is THE KIDS GETS SCREWED. Kids just want to play. The responsibility of the admin/coaches is to make this happen and improve the kids. Kids shouldnt have to ask a parent "Do we get to play this week?". A parent, who is paying for certain number of games, should be REALLY PISSED OFF. If a coach doesnt show up, or no one at a field on game day our league know within 30 mins. Then again our parents are probably more informed about how everything is run, where ALL THE MONEY goes and the backgrounds of our coaches - even a nice big meeting once a year that explains it all to parents.
So it appears you are fine with all this as long as your child isnt being screwed. Why would she be? Given her coach is one of the people at the top of the pyramid, none of her games will be forfeited or ever have an issue with practice space. Your team will have the proper number of kids as well. Not like many of the flight 3 teams put out by Ladera where the poor kids are playing 1 or 2 kids down. Chasing kids all day. Im sure that helps their development though - at the very least theyll have tons of fun running to cover kids all day.
Pretty sure the only game that was a forfeit this year wasn’t due to fields. I believe it was a late season game on a Sunday. With a team that either had injuries or some LDS players on it that won’t play on Sunday. Not sure about previous years under Castle and the Strikers.
Do the research if you want. All Anaheim Surf Ladera teams had 50% of their games on home fields. (Give or take 10% in case of an uneven bracket).
Bash away if you must. But this appears to be an up and coming club that seems to have ruffled some feathers along the way.
I know that their younger girls teams have added a lot of players from surrounding clubs. Maybe these clubs want them to go away to stop the exodus? Seems parents are interested in reasonable fees, good fields that are close to home and playing with kids that are mostly at the same school.
Or maybe LR Surf will fade away.
Do the research if you want. All Anaheim Surf Ladera teams had 50% of their games on home fields. (Give or take 10% in case of an uneven bracket).
Bash away if you must. But this appears to be an up and coming club that seems to have ruffled some feathers along the way.
I know that their younger girls teams have added a lot of players from surrounding clubs. Maybe these clubs want them to go away to stop the exodus? Seems parents are interested in reasonable fees, good fields that are close to home and playing with kids that are mostly at the same school.
Or maybe LR Surf will fade away.
soccerdad05
SILVER
My big question is why aren't they listed on Scdsl club directory? I know the club has grown no doubt and there are plenty of rumors out there.
Why not just be forthcoming and say why they aren't listed on the directory? They did not get approved under "Ladera Surf" for SCDSL. This is a known fact.. so if not for Forfeits.. than why?
Slammerdad
SILVER
Chiming in not to bash anyone, just to lay out some facts about fields when the Ladera Wings(now Ladera Surf who used to be the Strikers) first started. There were three entities who were petitioning for fields in 2012. The entities were the AYSO ladera (who had command of the limited fields in Ladera since their inception) ESL (signature league run out of Aliso Viejo) and the newly formed Wings, ran by KT. The Wings came on the scene with the idea of being an alternative to AYSO and competing in the signature environment. The only problem was, that void was being filled successfully by ESL at the time. So all three entities were present for a LARMAC meeting about fields and it was disclosed that the Wings had a greater % of Ladera Ranch residents than the either AYSO and ESL. This was because ESL allowed teams to form themselves and AYSO has an open registration policy so they would pull from local non-resident areas like Las Flores and RSM which in turn reduced their resident %. As a result, the Wings were awarded a disproportionate amount of field space for their group. That helped this group grow very quickly and offer a local alternative with open field availability.
Initially, it seemed like they were doing things the right way. Although these actions led to an adversarial relationship to the other organizations. As AYSO began to see the light of what had occured (duped out of their own fields), they began fighting to keep their fields and teams which helped them push for signature/Pacific Club teams to come on the scene. I think having the three organizations co-exist may have actually grown the sport in Ladera. Unfortunately field space did not grow with it and it left alot of parents wondering how their kids could play locally but never had enough space for practice. Soon after, an exodus of players started to leave the local environs and found their way to local clubs (Blues, West Coast, Slammers, Pats).
Whats unfortunate about he whole thing is that Ladera is home to ALOT of stud soccer players......they just don't ever get to play at home now.
Initially, it seemed like they were doing things the right way. Although these actions led to an adversarial relationship to the other organizations. As AYSO began to see the light of what had occured (duped out of their own fields), they began fighting to keep their fields and teams which helped them push for signature/Pacific Club teams to come on the scene. I think having the three organizations co-exist may have actually grown the sport in Ladera. Unfortunately field space did not grow with it and it left alot of parents wondering how their kids could play locally but never had enough space for practice. Soon after, an exodus of players started to leave the local environs and found their way to local clubs (Blues, West Coast, Slammers, Pats).
Whats unfortunate about he whole thing is that Ladera is home to ALOT of stud soccer players......they just don't ever get to play at home now.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
Ill take your word on the fields. Basing on what was said. If they did forfeit due to fields, what I posted would be the reason why. It isnt a secret the club has the field space due to AYSO. He even has traded field space, as if it was his to trade, in order to get private training for kids at his club. When it was no longer convenient, or city officials asked him about it - coach got tossed under the bus. Thats the kind of dude he is. That is the real issue with the club. He incorporated it all, all him. Not how other clubs operate - well ones that dont get bashed or eventually fade away.
They arent an up an coming club in my opinon. Theyve been around in various names for several years. The name gets a bit of bad following and its on to the next one. In this case, Surf just offers more $ in the pocket and a bigger name to use to attract kids. If you play for club X or Y most coaches/admins dont care - they care when they start pulling shady tactics. I dont even see an issue of them taking players, because that happens naturally and doesnt seem like they are targeting teams like say the real Surf or Pats. Also looks like Surf OC doesnt want anything to do with them. Strange, given Anaheim Surf (who ladera was under) has the OC Surf Logo and promoting as OC Surf on their website.
It used to be that the reason there are so many listings for the same organization (not affiliates), like Pats, Pats HB, MV and so on, has to do with each listing equates to field allocation responsibility for that club. In other words, if no one at Pats RSM is responsible for securing and scheduling field for the club, those teams that fall under Pats RSM is to be listed under somewhere the scheduling for field actually occurs. I'm using Pats as an example since all those Pats listings are a part of Pats SC under a single charter/incorporation, whereas all those Galaxies, Surf and alike are independent orgs with affiliations to the original entity (i.e., LAG, Surf Sports).
Regardless of the fate Ladera Surf, if they do not have field control to provide a component into the league schedule, they would not appear under the SCDSL Club Directory listing. They may appear, if they are playing under another org's fields, OC Surf Ladera under OC Surf, as an example.
It may not make sense to many but that's what MR told us few years ago when they started showing multiple listings under the same club. It makes their job easier to know immediately who to goto for field allocation.
soccerdad05
SILVER
That makes sense. I will say that rarely do they fly under another club like "SD Surf - Ladera". They typically will show as Ladera Surf, etc. Take your example for the Pats. They will show as Pats "city name", never Pats MV - RSM.
My point is that Ladera Surf applied for their own status for SCDSL and did not get approved. SCDSL allowed them to ride under Anaheim Surf last year.. Which they are not allowing this year.
So they either became part of OC Surf.. which seems unlikely. Or they are going to play CSL? It's not like you can sneak 30 teams into SCDSL under a OC Surf - Ladera.. SCDSL didn't approve "Ladera Surf" for a reason. I just think they should be upfront and spill the beans.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
Looked up some of the results of the coach mentioned in the thread:
DS G02 Flight 1 - 3pts - Games werent competitive
DS G05 - Flight 2 - 0pts - Really bad
DS G06 - Flight 2 - 7pts - not very competitive either
Three teams, all very bad. The wins and losses wouldnt be so important if the losses were competitive. So you have teams playing out of their level. Blowouts dont help the kids develop. Most parents want their kids playing at the highest level possible. Its the job of the coach and admin to make sure they are at the correct level of competition. Regardless of how much parents complain. Results like this only make parents/kid leave. Having X License doesnt mean a coach will be honest with the abilities of team or the abilities he/she possess. So the parent who mentioned this is really looking through rose-colored glasses - that or they are related or a team manager. If the child is having fun with friends, thats a good argument to post, but claiming these are "good results'' is disingenuous.
DS G02 Flight 1 - 3pts - Games werent competitive
DS G05 - Flight 2 - 0pts - Really bad
DS G06 - Flight 2 - 7pts - not very competitive either
Three teams, all very bad. The wins and losses wouldnt be so important if the losses were competitive. So you have teams playing out of their level. Blowouts dont help the kids develop. Most parents want their kids playing at the highest level possible. Its the job of the coach and admin to make sure they are at the correct level of competition. Regardless of how much parents complain. Results like this only make parents/kid leave. Having X License doesnt mean a coach will be honest with the abilities of team or the abilities he/she possess. So the parent who mentioned this is really looking through rose-colored glasses - that or they are related or a team manager. If the child is having fun with friends, thats a good argument to post, but claiming these are "good results'' is disingenuous.
soccerdad05
SILVER
Looks like all 3 teams finished last with big losses.
I actually heard from a parent that is leaving the club. They said they had no idea about SCDSL. They left because "the girls were given no decision making ability in the game, they had to pass from Player A to Player B". They said it resulted into zero fun and less development for the players.
Girls were not excited to train or play games because they had zero freedom. They were only trying to fulfill passing patterns on a repetitive, predictable basis. I think you may look pretty to an extend.. but you can tell when you see robots on the field. Especially at the older ages..
Still no response from the Ladera supporters?? After creating brand new accounts to post on this thread, they can't seem to answer the simple question. Why is Ladera Surf not listed on the SCDSL club directory? No doubt they asked one of Ladera's top 3 and are waiting for an email back... Don't hold your breath.
ItsCalledSoccer
SILVER
I would like to clarify that AYSO and Ladera Surf are not working together for fields and there are no deals. Both organizations apply for fields through LARMAC and are competing on this each year. The reason for Surf struggling for fields in Ladera is due to the growth of the AYSO program and their high residency rate and need for local fields.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
At certain levels, playing experience (going through high level coaching at college, pro and national level) is going to trump license education and being part of the 3four3 coaching network. The 3four3 coaching system isnt going to tell you when "STOP PLAYING OUT THE BACK" or "STOP HOLDING THE BALL". At some point you still have to read the game, understand what is going on and change. Sticking to something and thinking the result will eventually change is the definition of nuts. Joysticking all game isnt fun for anyone.
El Clasico
GOLD
Ok, so what gives? I am not anyway associated with this club. In fact, complete opposite of the lush lifestyle you guys live down in the OC but I am a little confused by you two douche bags going back and forth bashing on this club and asking for transparency while offering up none of your own. This is clearly personal so why don't you two P*ssys enlighten everyone and just tell us why you guys hate the club so much. Kids get cut? They ride the pine? What?? If you aren't with the club then what do you care how many teams, what place, how they coach, etc., etc. There are clubs up here that only have 4, 5, 6, 10 teams and some where they all do poorly but who are you guys to dictate who plays where and who doesn't? You guys on a mega club payroll or something? Don't sit there and complain in post after post about this club not being forthcoming when you and soccer pop5 clearly have your own little agenda. And don't tell me that you guys are doing some sort of public service as that would just make you look even more full of sh*t.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
All been mentioned, you seem not to want to read. Not my fault you dont want to take shit at face value if you read it. Maybe people actually do give a shit about kids and making sure they dont get screwed. You might not try to help your community but others do. Again, you have a reading problem, I mentioned it doesnt matter if they lose - but does matter if they get their asses kicked and kids arent developing. As I also mentioned, if the kids are having fun then not an issue. A lady posted on here that her kid was on teams that "good results", which isnt true. Did you hear me complain? Again, since you mentioned you arent down in the South OC and in the area the club is, you dont deal with the club, so what are you upset about?
Ill just crawl back into my mansion, because thats all how us South OC folks live. Not that people move from other places, work hard and move on up. Maybe youll get out of your bubble one day, check out an area that isnt like your own and see that people actually do give a shit about their next door neighbor - even if there is nothing in it for them.
soccerdad05
SILVER
Really nice of you to defend the club. Pretty simple, stated the only fact I know for sure. Ladera Surf did not get accepted into SCDSL.
Asked if Ladera folks could provide what facts they have on this for it or against it. I can see you want to step in protect the club from a couple of bullies.. Really no need. Giving clarity with facts is what I asked for.. Whatever motive you claim I have, it's only going to help the kids at Ladera to find out if the truth.
As for my personal interest. I am not part of the club and never have been. I do not like the coaches based on personal interactions with their behaviors at games.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
yeah everyone has to have an agenda. i already said ive dealt with the guy who runs the club and he is a dickhead. not like i havent told the guy in his face. no one gets along with the guy and all money driven. how the club operates is shady. guess its a problem to tell folks you might want to take a second look or ask questions.
diamondintherough
BRONZE
Guys!! Don't fret, I'm back from today's brainwashing session.
For folks that have such a low view of Ladera, y'all seem to care A LOT.
You have a deep disdain for KT, that much is clear, it's literally shaping your entire perspective. I actually pity you for carrying that much hatred for a guy that runs a soccer club...speaks more to who you are. Never in my post did I defend him or how the club is managed.
I spoke to my experience, as a parent, at the club. My daughter's F2 team went 9-3 last year & was promoted to F1 with the golf pro and engineering sales guy as her coaches. You are all speaking to their salaries & positions/roles in the club, which you no doubt are speculating about. There's not a chance you have this information. No one is signing up to be a soccer coach for the $. It's been my experience, with my daughter's coaches (that y'all were bashing/not bashing) that there is a genuine care for the players and passion for the game. I'm not going to defend possession style soccer to you, come out to a training or a game & see for yourself, it's really fun to watch, especially at this age group. The girls decision making ability is not at all hindered, in fact quite the opposite. Never did I say that every Surf coach is coaching this way, I spoke to my coaches.
Your self-righteousness with regards to caring about "the kids" is quite nauseating. No parent has a gun to their head keeping their kid at any club. Do your year with whatever club you choose...If the kids are suffering, get out. If you're unhappy, leave. If your kid isn't developing, move on. We are all adults, making what we deem the best decisions for our kids.
With regards to the SCDSL, I have a very trusted source(not anyone at Ladera Surf), that it is a paperwork issue & that the club will play in the SCDSL in the fall. I guess time will tell that story. Then maybe I'll come back once we are in & start my own thread. I think I'll title it "neener neener neener" or maybe "what's up now bitches?!"
For folks that have such a low view of Ladera, y'all seem to care A LOT.
You have a deep disdain for KT, that much is clear, it's literally shaping your entire perspective. I actually pity you for carrying that much hatred for a guy that runs a soccer club...speaks more to who you are. Never in my post did I defend him or how the club is managed.
I spoke to my experience, as a parent, at the club. My daughter's F2 team went 9-3 last year & was promoted to F1 with the golf pro and engineering sales guy as her coaches. You are all speaking to their salaries & positions/roles in the club, which you no doubt are speculating about. There's not a chance you have this information. No one is signing up to be a soccer coach for the $. It's been my experience, with my daughter's coaches (that y'all were bashing/not bashing) that there is a genuine care for the players and passion for the game. I'm not going to defend possession style soccer to you, come out to a training or a game & see for yourself, it's really fun to watch, especially at this age group. The girls decision making ability is not at all hindered, in fact quite the opposite. Never did I say that every Surf coach is coaching this way, I spoke to my coaches.
Your self-righteousness with regards to caring about "the kids" is quite nauseating. No parent has a gun to their head keeping their kid at any club. Do your year with whatever club you choose...If the kids are suffering, get out. If you're unhappy, leave. If your kid isn't developing, move on. We are all adults, making what we deem the best decisions for our kids.
With regards to the SCDSL, I have a very trusted source(not anyone at Ladera Surf), that it is a paperwork issue & that the club will play in the SCDSL in the fall. I guess time will tell that story. Then maybe I'll come back once we are in & start my own thread. I think I'll title it "neener neener neener" or maybe "what's up now bitches?!"
soccerdad05
SILVER
I do gotta give it to you, I actually think you banter well(not sarcastic).
Just a couple of fact checks:
1. Why not list where the source is from, without naming names? Is your source that Shady?
2. You played F2 last year and are now promoted to Flight 1. SCDSL does not approve teams this quickly.. so you are being mislead or jumping to conclusions.
3. I know the paperwork story you were sold. Is that really a fact? You have shared no details on this. Paperwork to do what? The SCDSL club list is out and you are not on it. So are you saying you will be part of OC Surf. Or are you that dense to not ask more inquisitive questions.
You are obviously from the Girls 2007 team from last year based on what you shared. I have seen your team play.. that's called possession soccer?!
diamondintherough
BRONZE
Hey, thanks friend!
Ok, so, let me get this straight....reveal my source, without revealing it, got it. But, yes, a little about me...typically I prefer my sources to be unreliable, the shadier the better! I'm seeking the most deceptive, untrustworthy information I can find! Here's a question, if you have no vested interest in the club, if you don't have a child playing for the club, WHY DO YOU CARE?
The paperwork "story" is a logistical issue within the surf franchise. Like I said, time will tell that story. However, it's laughable that any of you a) have the time b) care enough, to spend your days speculating on this issue.
"That dense"....literally LOL. Gotta love a man who is clearly intimidated by a woman, result to name calling. You sound awesome, though, what a catch!
And finally, "Mr. I care about the kids"--you're insulting 10 year old girls playing soccer. We were a first year team, learning to build out the back and possess the ball and they did it well. You're right they didn't look like Barcelona, yet. Y'all asked about results, I gave them to you. We had 70+ 2007 girls come to tryout for this team, parents obviously liked what they saw.