Is US Mens/Boys Soccer Dead or Dying

My son has had 6 (it’s going to be 7) coaches since he started travel (more than 1/2 of them having to move due to factors beyond his control). Out of the 6 two of them were great (both focused on development and took knocks on the wins as a result), 2 had their merits and demerits, 2 were downright awful. For the money we pay that shouldn’t really be the case.
Damn, you made me count. My son had 10 coaches in his club career, 3 in his last year. His first and last were the worst. I was critical of his first coach and at one point he told my U8 son "don't tell your dad anything I tell you". A couple coaches we really liked, but other parents couldn't stand the same coaches. Most understood soccer, but very few knew how to coach kids. He had a great young coach for a few months but he left to coach in the USL. He had the team performing way above their individual skills. The coach that took over was a complete disaster and the team never won another game after dominating the non-academy teams in the first half of the season. That was the final straw in my son's soccer journey.

Coaches in the other sports he has played, have on average been better than his soccer coaches. One totally unfounded theory I have is that typically in other sports you have more than one coach like baseball and football. In soccer you usually just have one coach. I think when you have more than one coach there are more checks and balances. Whereas, in soccer the personality and approach of one coach dominates the culture of the team, for better or worse.
 
All but one of best coaches my daughter and son had are no longer coaching club soccer. The one that is still coaching is has been at Surf almost 15 years now. Clue to who he is, he was the first US coach to coach a current USWNT team player in a game when she moved to the US.
 
How much of that do you think is due to club leadership, or lack thereof?
Part of the issue I've come to believe is that the non academy clubs are organized more as personal fiefdoms than an organized coaching unit. There isn't an organized style of playing or curriculum (though at the MLSN it's closer because of the training they impose, but it doesn't trickle down to the lower level teams) most of the time. The old SM surf prior to the Albion purchase was an exception...so were the Eagles a few years ago (not sure if they are any more)...I've heard maybe Laguna or the Reds. Coaches select players with little to no input from the club-- MLSN really should require a placement director that would direct players to proper levels and use bio banding appropriately. Levels usually aren't interlocked so kids can be moved up or down to enhance playtime but also training opportunities. Coaches are judged on player retention (signing bonuses for players who reup....really????), which means keeping the parents happy with wins, not development. GK coaches are just glorified trainers instead of an active part of the coaching staff. Skills training is absent in a lot of clubs leaving it dumped on coaches who, along with conditioning, don't really have time to do it (only have known a few clubs that did skill training nights for like defenders, or conditioning, or strikers...the old Laufa, Ole, Newbury Park). To build a winning squad for the youngers you have to be a real a hole and be ruthless in a lot of things people don't like to do like recruiting, cutting weaker players and upgrading them, get the big kids near the age line, boot ball tactics. And then there's the pay that quite a few clubs out there since COVID have not been financially stable and those that are (like the Albions of the world) are buying up everything so you are a cog in vast profit making machine.
 
Hey good news guys! Germany won the World Cup after Benedict was elected pope. Argentina after Francis was elected pope. With the new pope, I'm liking our chances (unless Peru somehow magically gets it). :p
 
I know it was just a friendly, but last weekend's USMNT loss to South Korea is more evidence that US Men's soccer is dying. It's not just the loss, but the apathy by the greater soccer community. Here we are on a soccer forum and nary a mention of the loss. Yes, the hard core and soccer pundits are questioning Pochettino's ability, but like I said the general soccer community is apathetic. The game was a sellout, but the reports are that it was a lot of South Korea fans, with some calling it a home game for Korea.
 
I know it was just a friendly, but last weekend's USMNT loss to South Korea is more evidence that US Men's soccer is dying. It's not just the loss, but the apathy by the greater soccer community. Here we are on a soccer forum and nary a mention of the loss. Yes, the hard core and soccer pundits are questioning Pochettino's ability, but like I said the general soccer community is apathetic. The game was a sellout, but the reports are that it was a lot of South Korea fans, with some calling it a home game for Korea.
Maybe people here are "too close to the flame" so to speak when it comes to USM/WNT player, coaching, and admin processes.

Obviously the mens national teams selection processes and leadership isnt working. There's only so many times people can say "I told you so" before getting frustrated and ignoring.
 
Maybe people here are "too close to the flame" so to speak when it comes to USM/WNT player, coaching, and admin processes.

Obviously the mens national teams selection processes and leadership isnt working. There's only so many times people can say "I told you so" before getting frustrated and ignoring.
I sound like a broken record, but our soccer system at all levels is broken, and I would say irretrievably broken. We seem to be doubling down on all the mistakes we've made in the past.
 
I sound like a broken record, but our soccer system at all levels is broken, and I would say irretrievably broken. We seem to be doubling down on all the mistakes we've made in the past.

There are things we could do. For one, we could reserve college scholarships for US players.

Our college teams should be the MNT farm teams. Instead, we're providing a fallback plan for the European academy system. Not smart.
 
There are things we could do. For one, we could reserve college scholarships for US players.

Our college teams should be the MNT farm teams. Instead, we're providing a fallback plan for the European academy system. Not smart.
There are a lot of things we could do; however, unless US Soccer is burnt to the ground and rebuilt it will never happen.
 
Agree with everyone who thinks the US Soccer system is its own worst enemy. They built an entire club soccer universe for the purposes of identifying a few kids per year who might contribute to a winning national team. They haven’t done that yet but along the way they’ve made the game worse for the other 99% of the kids who play the sport.

Youth soccer is insanely popular among young kids, but the longer anyone plays — especially the best kids — the less fun it gets. The minute you’re any good and start playing club, you quit all your other sports and give up every three-day weekend for the rest of your childhood. Your parents stress endlessly about the size/scope of their investment, but your coach keeps dangling a pathway to pro development if you’re willing to put in the work. Pretty soon you’re missing birthday parties and movie nights and — if you’re really good and make an MLS Next team — you practice an hour away from home and are told you can’t play for your high school team. Some kids at school have heard you’re pretty good, but the only people who have ever actually seen you play are your parents, at empty fields many hours from your house. You’ll never play in front of your friends, or a cheering high school crowd. You’ll never take the stage at a raucous pep rally. You’ll never wear your school jersey on campus on game days. If you did play for your school, you’d be the captain or the MVP. But MLS Next says that’s bad for development. They apparently have no interest in developing joy or confidence or pride, or strangely, even soccer audiences in high school stadiums. Weird strategy to grow the game.

It’s hard to imagine a youth sports universe more hostile to kids’ confidence than US Soccer and MLS Next. You’re only valuable to them if you deserve a national team call-up or they can sell your pro rights overseas. Do they care if you’re a college prospect? No. They’ve written off college soccer (much like high school) because if you’re playing college soccer you’ve already missed your window to deliver World Cup glory to the federation, and by then you’re already worthless to them. But let’s say you succeed against all odds. If you truly are one of the best in the country — the exact sort of player the entire pay-to-play youth soccer pyramid was built to produce — then you’ll play national team games at home in empty stadiums because the tickets cost $200, or you’ll play MLS games that are only televised for the diehard soccer freaks who pay for the MLS bonus subscription on Apple+. But don’t worry, that will actually feel normal to you because you’ve never played in front of a real crowd before. The closest you ever got to a soccer crowd was sitting in the stands at high school games, cheering for the team you should’ve been the captain of.

People wonder why the USMNT doesn’t play with more passion, like the old days. Maybe they all burned out before they turned 16?
 
I think that there are pathways for boys to enjoy competitive soccer but often parents' egos get in the way.

My elder DS played for the same F1 club team for years and for his HS. Now plays Sunday league while away at college. Still loves soccer.

My younger DS played for an ECNL team and his HS. Now plays D1 college. Still loves soccer.

Agree with everyone who thinks the US Soccer system is its own worst enemy. They built an entire club soccer universe for the purposes of identifying a few kids per year who might contribute to a winning national team. They haven’t done that yet but along the way they’ve made the game worse for the other 99% of the kids who play the sport.

Youth soccer is insanely popular among young kids, but the longer anyone plays — especially the best kids — the less fun it gets. The minute you’re any good and start playing club, you quit all your other sports and give up every three-day weekend for the rest of your childhood. Your parents stress endlessly about the size/scope of their investment, but your coach keeps dangling a pathway to pro development if you’re willing to put in the work. Pretty soon you’re missing birthday parties and movie nights and — if you’re really good and make an MLS Next team — you practice an hour away from home and are told you can’t play for your high school team. Some kids at school have heard you’re pretty good, but the only people who have ever actually seen you play are your parents, at empty fields many hours from your house. You’ll never play in front of your friends, or a cheering high school crowd. You’ll never take the stage at a raucous pep rally. You’ll never wear your school jersey on campus on game days. If you did play for your school, you’d be the captain or the MVP. But MLS Next says that’s bad for development. They apparently have no interest in developing joy or confidence or pride, or strangely, even soccer audiences in high school stadiums. Weird strategy to grow the game.

It’s hard to imagine a youth sports universe more hostile to kids’ confidence than US Soccer and MLS Next. You’re only valuable to them if you deserve a national team call-up or they can sell your pro rights overseas. Do they care if you’re a college prospect? No. They’ve written off college soccer (much like high school) because if you’re playing college soccer you’ve already missed your window to deliver World Cup glory to the federation, and by then you’re already worthless to them. But let’s say you succeed against all odds. If you truly are one of the best in the country — the exact sort of player the entire pay-to-play youth soccer pyramid was built to produce — then you’ll play national team games at home in empty stadiums because the tickets cost $200, or you’ll play MLS games that are only televised for the diehard soccer freaks who pay for the MLS bonus subscription on Apple+. But don’t worry, that will actually feel normal to you because you’ve never played in front of a real crowd before. The closest you ever got to a soccer crowd was sitting in the stands at high school games, cheering for the team you should’ve been the captain of.

People wonder why the USMNT doesn’t play with more passion, like the old days. Maybe they all burned out before they turned 16?
 
Agree with everyone who thinks the US Soccer system is its own worst enemy. They built an entire club soccer universe for the purposes of identifying a few kids per year who might contribute to a winning national team. They haven’t done that yet but along the way they’ve made the game worse for the other 99% of the kids who play the sport.

Youth soccer is insanely popular among young kids, but the longer anyone plays — especially the best kids — the less fun it gets. The minute you’re any good and start playing club, you quit all your other sports and give up every three-day weekend for the rest of your childhood. Your parents stress endlessly about the size/scope of their investment, but your coach keeps dangling a pathway to pro development if you’re willing to put in the work. Pretty soon you’re missing birthday parties and movie nights and — if you’re really good and make an MLS Next team — you practice an hour away from home and are told you can’t play for your high school team. Some kids at school have heard you’re pretty good, but the only people who have ever actually seen you play are your parents, at empty fields many hours from your house. You’ll never play in front of your friends, or a cheering high school crowd. You’ll never take the stage at a raucous pep rally. You’ll never wear your school jersey on campus on game days. If you did play for your school, you’d be the captain or the MVP. But MLS Next says that’s bad for development. They apparently have no interest in developing joy or confidence or pride, or strangely, even soccer audiences in high school stadiums. Weird strategy to grow the game.

It’s hard to imagine a youth sports universe more hostile to kids’ confidence than US Soccer and MLS Next. You’re only valuable to them if you deserve a national team call-up or they can sell your pro rights overseas. Do they care if you’re a college prospect? No. They’ve written off college soccer (much like high school) because if you’re playing college soccer you’ve already missed your window to deliver World Cup glory to the federation, and by then you’re already worthless to them. But let’s say you succeed against all odds. If you truly are one of the best in the country — the exact sort of player the entire pay-to-play youth soccer pyramid was built to produce — then you’ll play national team games at home in empty stadiums because the tickets cost $200, or you’ll play MLS games that are only televised for the diehard soccer freaks who pay for the MLS bonus subscription on Apple+. But don’t worry, that will actually feel normal to you because you’ve never played in front of a real crowd before. The closest you ever got to a soccer crowd was sitting in the stands at high school games, cheering for the team you should’ve been the captain of.

People wonder why the USMNT doesn’t play with more passion, like the old days. Maybe they all burned out before they turned 16?
You're spot on.

I've said this before, make high school soccer relevant again. For many players that's going to be their only "payoff" for those years of playing youth soccer (in many cases year round). Like you said playing in front of your peers, wearing your jersey on game days, being part of a community, etc. is all pretty cool. When I was in high school (ahem 40 years ago) it was a big deal to be on the soccer team. Girls could volunteer to be supporters of the team and they were assigned a player that they would support, bring treats etc. Maybe that's sexist now, but it was a big deal.
 
I have seen multiple excellent young players on MLS Next teams quit soccer at 12-14 and go play tackle football. The peer pressure, money, opportunities, are hard to ignore. The most athletic, fastest, strongest players are the ones football poaches. Mediocre soccer clubs make it easy for them to leave.

My own nephew turned down D1 college soccer to be a kicker on a college football team.

My 12 year old son played MLS Next. He is very good.

He said:

"soccer isn't fun. Everyone is mad and yelling parents coaches. If I don't score we lose and we get punished next practice. Some of the players throw up after all the running. Why am I playing 4 games in two days when it's 100 degrees? I am the fastest sprinter in my school. All my friends want me to play football with them. I want to be happy again".

That was hard to hear.

This is a 6th grader talking.

After last year we pulled back a lot. His health and mental well being is more important than soccer. Soccer needs players like him more than they need soccer.
 
And the leagues have become so diffuse in talent that driving all over SoCal and other states to play terrible teams is just not worth it. It seems more of a front for the hotel and travel industry. The whole system is rotten.
 
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