How do you know the "best" athletes aren't playing soccer? Your premise is based on assumptions - there's no data to support your argument. My argument is that the athletes are not the issue -- the issue lies elsewhere, likely in an aggregate of different sub issues. (e.g., coaching)
Is US Mens/Boys Soccer Dead or Dying
- Thread starter watfly
- Start date
How do you know the "best" athletes aren't playing soccer? Your premise is based on assumptions - there's no data to support your argument. My argument is that the athletes are not the issue -- the issue lies elsewhere, likely in an aggregate of different sub issues. (e.g., coaching)
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Only if you willfully ignore what's obvious to all (but you).
Only if you willfully ignore what's obvious to all (but you).
You have this belief that literally has no backing whatsoever. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Well said.
Make of it what you will but I set a bunch of parameters for grok including the appeal of scholarships and professional opportunities, the lack of transferability of certain athletic gifts to other sports, the popularity of sports including the rising interest in international soccer competitions, the limited professional track in US soccer, the respective size of teams and slots available in the other sports, the popularity of the sport at the age of academy selection, concerns over gridiron football and the reduced popularity of both football and baseball in recent years, the dominance of basketball and football coverage in media. It depends on the inputs, but for what it's worth, grok's best guess is that the higher end club talent pool from which the academies get to pick athletes from is reduced by somewhat 15-20% by the other sports. Significant (I'd argue at least on par with the Latino talent we are losing because academies start late and pay to play) but not in and of itself disastrous, as grok itself pointed out our soccer athletic pool in southern california is equivalent to panama.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Seems reasonable. It's hard to switch contexts quickly, and people conflate them often both intentionally and unintentionally. When we're talking about the USMNT (or the top team of any other country), it's talking about identifying that needle in a haystack, and doing it 20 times. It's not about the top 25%, or top 10%, or even top 1%. It's much, much, smaller. The better countries are at doing that - the better the resulting team has the potential to be. Anything that makes it any less likely that a stellar athlete will choose the soccer path instead of alternatives - the worse the resulting team has the potential to be.
It's not just the raw totals for population. Countries with an athletic pool a fraction the size of the US can identify, attract, and develop individuals/teams to compete well on the world stage. We can't. And haven't. And likely won't.
It's not just the raw totals for population. Countries with an athletic pool a fraction the size of the US can identify, attract, and develop individuals/teams to compete well on the world stage. We can't. And haven't. And likely won't.
Karlton Athletic
SILVER
You seem to be equating “best athlete” with “most popular with cheerleaders”, which if we go back to your original premise of asking kids to name the 5 best athletes at school may well be the case, but it’s not necessarily factual.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Why isn't it factual? What makes it non-factual for you? The fact that you don't like it, or that you don't believe it?
The primary issue, which every one of these downstream effects is a direct result of, is that soccer isn't as attractive a lure as other competing sports in the US.
While I had no clue what Grok was until you posted, I think 15-20% seems like a plausible number, although there is no way to really know and I don't trust AI for factually related things. But it makes sense, for every 1 player you lose, 4 continue with soccer. With our population that's plenty of athletes available to soccer. However, I don't believe there is any correlation between athleticism and soccer IQ.
To improve US soccer we need to focus less on perceived athleticism and focus more on decision making and scanning abilities.
aong cangkol
SILVER
That is more indication of failure in development. We picked the biggest, fastest, strongest players against "mini-messi" of other countries.
According to FIFA statistics, only 15% of U-17 national team players made it to senior team. Stats come from U17 world cup to actual/senior world cup.
You can guess what is the percentage from U-12 national team made it. must be less than 10%
Exactly. We struggle with player identification at an early age and we fail at developing players. We attract plenty of athletes. The numbers don't lie. But glad you've come around.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
If you mean I've changed my mind, I've done no such thing. However, I'm also glad that you're not completely out to lunch. The best athletes (and everybody else) are less attracted to soccer because it's not as popular a sport. When talking about the USWNT - everybody else doesn't matter - and the only applicable discussion is why the best athletes in the US are often making the rational choice to forego soccer. Our population isn't so large - and our identification/development isn't so good - to overcome the fact that some of the strongest candidates can clearly determine a better individual path.