Interesting letter from SoCal League, re referee issues

I can say that there is a considerable amount of extra paperwork for such, and not just for the official. SoCal League requires team managers to also explicitly document all such instances, with penalties for clubs which fail to do so, even if/when no card is actually shown (any motion pointing a person off the field is considered a Send Off, and equivalent to the red card for the parent/spectator, which carries a minimum three game suspension, a mandatory online class, and an effective $50 personal fine for the spectator). The managers also need to gather information from the referees explicitly after the game for reporting purposes, and there's some follow-up documentation requirements for the clubs as well.
We instruct our parents / spectators to not leave the field until such time that an actual card has been issued. If a parent / spectator on our side is out of order we will remove them ourselves, first from the sideline and eventually from the club if the behavior persists. However, we have had multiple instances where the referee has singled out parents for whatever reason and has instructed them to leave. In this scenarios we will support our parents and athletes until such time as an actual card is issued. The reason being that unless the referee actually issues the card the send off is not valid, even under SoCal League. This type of send off alleviates the need for the referee to fill out the formal paperwork which none of them really want to do and then it becomes a he said / she said between the 2 team managers.

Also since we record all our games if a formal report is filed, in the case you feel like there were errors, you can address it through the proper channels and also contest the referee written statements if need be.
 
Why would a ref want to go 1 on 1 with an "overly exuberant" spectator? If a crazy person is being crazy what do you think the chances are that they'll get even crazier if confronted directly?

Speaking with the coach and having them address sideline issues makes it more difficult for the crazy person to focus on refs exclusively. Even better would be for the coach to speak with their entire sideline explaining the situation and asking the crazy person to leave. This way all the other spectators would be against the crazy person as well.

Unfortunately they'll probably be waiting for refs in the parking lot. But this would likely happen either way because thats what crazy people do.

Two weeks ago I was at a youth basketball game and a parent started going crazy on a ref because the ref was lightly coaching players. This was middle school level, the ref was just trying to help kids out. Apparently the ref does this a lot and crazy parent had enough. Half way through the game the spectator and ref got into a screaming match with the ref saying he'll meet the crazy person outside after the game. After the game there they were outside the facility screaming at each other again and threatening to fight. We got out quick because crazy people have guns and it was getting to that level. All because a ref was trying to help kids out.
The biggest issue i see here is why isnt the coach and other parents addressing their own team parent!! Imho in scenarios like this the clubs should be taking a stricter stand with the parent.
 
Speaking with the coach and having them address sideline issues makes it more difficult for the crazy person to focus on refs exclusively. Even better would be for the coach to speak with their entire sideline explaining the situation and asking the crazy person to leave. This way all the other spectators would be against the crazy person as well.
This is what I was trained for many years ago, with my referee certification, and worked pretty well. The current methodology of carding spectators is somewhat logically suspect also; spectators are not participants in the match. The escalation path back years ago was coach -> abandon the game.

I suspect that SoCal League has taken the stance of trying to be extra punitive toward parents in their exuberance to curb perceived referee abuse, with cards, suspensions, monetary fines, related player suspensions, etc. As noted before, I don't know if that approach will be a net positive (ie: escalating the one-sided and biased treatment, particularly while actively ignoring referee quality and decision issues, seems to me to risk inciting asymmetric escalations on the part of the parents). It also imposes a nontrivial burden on clubs and parental volunteers (eg: team managers), for mandatory and increasing reporting and tracking requirements.
 
We instruct our parents / spectators to not leave the field until such time that an actual card has been issued. If a parent / spectator on our side is out of order we will remove them ourselves, first from the sideline and eventually from the club if the behavior persists. However, we have had multiple instances where the referee has singled out parents for whatever reason and has instructed them to leave. In this scenarios we will support our parents and athletes until such time as an actual card is issued. The reason being that unless the referee actually issues the card the send off is not valid, even under SoCal League. This type of send off alleviates the need for the referee to fill out the formal paperwork which none of them really want to do and then it becomes a he said / she said between the 2 team managers.

Also since we record all our games if a formal report is filed, in the case you feel like there were errors, you can address it through the proper channels and also contest the referee written statements if need be.
This has changed recently in the league guidance, fwiw. To wit, the current update specifies that any Send Off, with or without a card shown, is equivalent to a red card, and must be reported and tracked (or the clubs will be liable for fines).

I agree that the referees were probably trying to avoid paperwork and process here, but I think the league wants to take a harder stance, and force the issue for those spectators, by leveraging the team managers. Which sucks, for reference, as it puts the managers in the middle, trying to get information from the referees and coaches to fill out all the required paperwork from the league. The whole situation sucks at present.
 
Also since we record all our games if a formal report is filed, in the case you feel like there were errors, you can address it through the proper channels and also contest the referee written statements if need be.
This will not work, fwiw. SoCal League has been very explicit that they will actively ignore any evidence presented re referee behavior, and will take the referees account as fact, even if there is conclusive and incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. They have taken a very hard stance that they absolutely do not care about the actual truth in the matters; whatever the referee says will be the truth as far as the league is concerned.
 
The biggest issue i see here is why isnt the coach and other parents addressing their own team parent!! Imho in scenarios like this the clubs should be taking a stricter stand with the parent.
The coach was a women stepping in to help because the regular coach wasnt available. She was/is nice but was way over her head in knowing how to address crazy people. The parent looking to fight the ref went from zero to full on rage. Nobody on the team knows each other that well and they're not going to stop a crazy person from either bench.

I get why the crazy person was upset. Refs shouldn't be coaching players. But this guy was not communicating correctly. Or there was some kind of history between the two that I wasnt aware of.
 
This will not work, fwiw. SoCal League has been very explicit that they will actively ignore any evidence presented re referee behavior, and will take the referees account as fact, even if there is conclusive and incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. They have taken a very hard stance that they absolutely do not care about the actual truth in the matters; whatever the referee says will be the truth as far as the league is concerned.
To the league's credit, though, they have been entirely up-front and transparent about their 100% biased and one-sided policy and treatment in this regard. A lot of organizations would pay some amount of lip service to considering evidence and getting to the truth in disputes. SoCal League came out and explicitly said, "we will not even listen to you, we will throw your evidence in the garbage, we do not care: whatever the referee says is the truth, as far as we are concerned." There's no legitimate excuse for confusion about what side the league will take for any disputes here.
 
This has changed recently in the league guidance, fwiw. To wit, the current update specifies that any Send Off, with or without a card shown, is equivalent to a red card, and must be reported and tracked (or the clubs will be liable for fines).

I agree that the referees were probably trying to avoid paperwork and process here, but I think the league wants to take a harder stance, and force the issue for those spectators, by leveraging the team managers. Which sucks, for reference, as it puts the managers in the middle, trying to get information from the referees and coaches to fill out all the required paperwork from the league. The whole situation sucks at present.
You are correct on the new rules regarding the write up by teams but the referee doesnt need to do a write if they dont issue a card.
 
This will not work, fwiw. SoCal League has been very explicit that they will actively ignore any evidence presented re referee behavior, and will take the referees account as fact, even if there is conclusive and incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. They have taken a very hard stance that they absolutely do not care about the actual truth in the matters; whatever the referee says will be the truth as far as the league is concerned.
This is both correct and incorrect. I have posted the correct procedure to get video evidence reviewed. Despite SoCal Leagues rules on reviewing video are clear, they do NOT control SafeSport, US Soccer and/or the ref assigning bodies. The ref complaints must go through the right channels and not SoCal Soccer.
 
To the league's credit, though, they have been entirely up-front and transparent about their 100% biased and one-sided policy and treatment in this regard. A lot of organizations would pay some amount of lip service to considering evidence and getting to the truth in disputes. SoCal League came out and explicitly said, "we will not even listen to you, we will throw your evidence in the garbage, we do not care: whatever the referee says is the truth, as far as we are concerned." There's no legitimate excuse for confusion about what side the league will take for any disputes here.
See above message. Ref complaints do not need to go to SoCal Soccer.

It is akin to going to a event where the venue is X location but staff, security etc is provided by a third party. The ref setup is basically a third party and you need to follow the appropriate channels to get your evidence reviewed.
 
The coach was a women stepping in to help because the regular coach wasnt available. She was/is nice but was way over her head in knowing how to address crazy people. The parent looking to fight the ref went from zero to full on rage. Nobody on the team knows each other that well and they're not going to stop a crazy person from either bench.

I get why the crazy person was upset. Refs shouldn't be coaching players. But this guy was not communicating correctly. Or there was some kind of history between the two that I wasnt aware of.
Thats a fair point. However, if this happened on any of my teams or that of my kids, i would be definetely be addressing this with the other parent, coach and club post game. Often better to address it once the parent has had a chance to calm down a bit.
 
This is both correct and incorrect. I have posted the correct procedure to get video evidence reviewed. Despite SoCal Leagues rules on reviewing video are clear, they do NOT control SafeSport, US Soccer and/or the ref assigning bodies. The ref complaints must go through the right channels and not SoCal Soccer.
The ref bodies though don’t have remedial control re the player/club so the only thing they can really do is remove or train the ref. Say for example the situation where the kid punched my son and my son punched back: earning them both red cards and suspension. The de facto rule on paper is still the assaulted player is expected to take his beating (if he defends himself he gets suspended; the ref can’t do anything to separate beyond whistle; the coaches and parents prohibited from entering…the rule on paper is take it and punishments served later). Or a situation where the ref allows a team to racially harass a player: the ref might get punished but the other team isn’t. Or a situation where the ref is corrupt: the corrupt team still gets what they want but the ref is punished. So you both have a point. Yeah there’s a mechanism to improve the refs and to possibly even punish one, but the blind eye position of the leagues still mean justice is not done and as a result encourages further bad behavior. It’s one thing to say results won’t be overturned because of a bad offside decision…quite another to say we won’t view video evidence even if it involves the health, safety or civil rights of the players.
 
The ref bodies though don’t have remedial control re the player/club so the only thing they can really do is remove or train the ref. Say for example the situation where the kid punched my son and my son punched back: earning them both red cards and suspension. The de facto rule on paper is still the assaulted player is expected to take his beating (if he defends himself he gets suspended; the ref can’t do anything to separate beyond whistle; the coaches and parents prohibited from entering…the rule on paper is take it and punishments served later). Or a situation where the ref allows a team to racially harass a player: the ref might get punished but the other team isn’t. Or a situation where the ref is corrupt: the corrupt team still gets what they want but the ref is punished. So you both have a point. Yeah there’s a mechanism to improve the refs and to possibly even punish one, but the blind eye position of the leagues still mean justice is not done and as a result encourages further bad behavior. It’s one thing to say results won’t be overturned because of a bad offside decision…quite another to say we won’t view video evidence even if it involves the health, safety or civil rights of the players.
Grace thanks for coloring in my response. We have had success in overturning a red card against parents/spectators after the complaint was filed through the proper channels and the ref body acknowledged the referee error. The league still didnt review the footage however, supplemental documentation was accepted and reviewed. With reference to the racial harassment, abuse, neglect we have succesfully had SoCal League review provided footage after involving US Soccer. Furthermore, despite general immunity for sport in most jurisdictions, racism, harrasment and neglect are covered under that. You can still press charges if you have sufficient evidence, this can include the opposition player(s), coach, referee etc
 
Thats a fair point. However, if this happened on any of my teams or that of my kids, i would be definetely be addressing this with the other parent, coach and club post game. Often better to address it once the parent has had a chance to calm down a bit.
I've had to deal with all kinds of crazy parents. This guy was different. He went from zero to screaming. Maybe that's his thing, going all in intimidates people. The ref wasnt having it even through he probabaly shouldn't have been coaching the players. Seeing them scream at each other after the game with children around made me think that they must have had previous issues.

For the record the way the ref was calling the game + coaching players was annoying. But not screaming in the parking lot annoying.
 
I've had to deal with all kinds of crazy parents. This guy was different. He went from zero to screaming. Maybe that's his thing, going all in intimidates people. The ref wasnt having it even through he probabaly shouldn't have been coaching the players. Seeing them scream at each other after the game with children around made me think that they must have had previous issues.

For the record the way the ref was calling the game + coaching players was annoying. But not screaming in the parking lot annoying.
One thing i have tried on my teams (works about 70%) of the time, is have a chat with the ref and opposition coach before the game. For the youngers ensure ref is aware of build out line, no headers etc and then explicitly have them confirm will they call Foul Throws and how they will address 1st errors, are they going to stop for all injuries (perceived or real) or just head injuries and several other small details that tend to get parents panties in a knot. This way i can related that to the sideline and set their expectations.

But yeah sometimes the crazy is too much to deal with directly.
 
This is both correct and incorrect. I have posted the correct procedure to get video evidence reviewed. Despite SoCal Leagues rules on reviewing video are clear, they do NOT control SafeSport, US Soccer and/or the ref assigning bodies. The ref complaints must go through the right channels and not SoCal Soccer.
Fair. I guess the clarification on my point is that while SoCal League will intentionally turn a blind eye to any/all evidence of wrongdoing (bias, lies, etc.), they are also somewhat accountable to the higher level soccer organizations which are perhaps not so one-sided in their approach to complaints and issues, and if one can get the other organizations involved, one might be able to compel SoCal League to accept a position other than "the ref is always right". I don't have any personal experience with how that process might go, but I'll accept your word that it is at least viable.
 
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