Interesting column on the future of women's college sports

My impression is that title IX is not a boogeyman that is going to make non-profit turning sports, men or women's, disappear. From the discussion, it is apparent that the rules have flexibility, enforcement is not heavy handed, and the responsibility of most athletic directors is to make sure they generally pass muster. If fact, it can be harder to present a balanced sport portfolio if there are big cash cows sort of sitting on one side of the scale. The thing that is driving reductions in sports is largely simple financial pressures. Several UCs, for example, have floated the idea of simply reverting to intra-mural programs. Saves a bunch on infrastructure and you can zero out a bunch of staff/administrative positions.
 
Probably been mentioned, but seems to me that the smaller schools, smaller as in NAIA and juco use sports like D3 does…as a moneymaker. Sure hand out some partial scholarships here and there, but the player is on the hook for the rest of the tuition, buying books, and paying for room and board…all while the entire coaching staff probably makes $60k combined and the facilities are, well, you know. Maybe it’s only the jucos that seem to be adding sports left and right but can’t see women’s sports disappearing at the lower college level any time soon.

Fairly competitive D2 (private) school in the south has approx 25% of their enrollment as student athletes…looked it up and the national average is 23%


Here’s the same type of info for D3, student athletes average 27% of enrollment…local D3 coach told me they are 40% SA and the school makes it a point to not have a large volume of afternoon classes campus wide to accommodate the SA’s participation


The DI topic is a completely different discussion as the mid majors are struggling to keep up with the Jones‘ as they have to try and stay competitive
 
Simisoccerfan said:
Many colleges are not currently meeting Title IX and they are getting away with it. Title IX means equal opportunity not equal finances. No way any women's teams are treated as well as Men's Football or Basketball. Look at the scandal a few years ago with the NCAA B Ball Tourney and how women are treated compared to men. Do you think anything lasting was done about that? Once players are being paid you won't have to pay a women's soccer player the same as a men's football player. Those colleges that can't compete financially in the future of big money college football could drop those programs. Do you really think there would be as many women's college sports and teams if that happened.
Click to expand...
Some are getting away with it for now. Just google "Lawsuits title IX sports college" and you will see many cases in the last few months with one school paying out $400k settlement.

It looks there was significant changes made to NCAA women's basketball. https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-women...rch-madness-tournament-changes-163454222.html
 
dad4 said:
What does Drake Group even mean when they say “equal opportunities to obtain NIL agreements”?

Same right to sign? Sure, but that’s free.

Same dollar amount? Who is going to sign millions of dollars in NIL contracts for essentially unknown female athletes? Or are the courts going to require that male athletes give half their NIL money to female athletes?
Click to expand...
I believe the "equal opportunities to obtain NIL agreements" is they are making the same efforts to obtain NIL agreements for men and women.

Not sure where you got "same dollar amount" from. They stated: "With specific regard to the support of college athletes’ NIL agreements, institutions and these third parties must provide equal opportunities for male and female athletes to obtain NIL agreements (recognizing that the value of such agreements will be subject to the marketplace)"

What I believe that means is the same efforts and assistance needs to be provided to female athletes as male athletes in obtaining those NIL agreements. The reference to recognizing the marketplace value deals with the fact that a male football player market place value endorsement value is substantially a higher market value than an endorsement for a female goalkeeper. The value of the NIL agreement does not need to be equal, but the effort put in to obtain the NIL agreement needs to be equal. That is consistent with the guidance offered by the OCR related to other matters.
 
Keepermom2 said:
I believe the "equal opportunities to obtain NIL agreements" is they are making the same efforts to obtain NIL agreements for men and women.

Not sure where you got "same dollar amount" from. They stated: "With specific regard to the support of college athletes’ NIL agreements, institutions and these third parties must provide equal opportunities for male and female athletes to obtain NIL agreements (recognizing that the value of such agreements will be subject to the marketplace)"

What I believe that means is the same efforts and assistance needs to be provided to female athletes as male athletes in obtaining those NIL agreements. The reference to recognizing the marketplace value deals with the fact that a male football player market place value endorsement value is substantially a higher market value than an endorsement for a female goalkeeper. The value of the NIL agreement does not need to be equal, but the effort put in to obtain the NIL agreement needs to be equal. That is consistent with the guidance offered by the OCR related to other matters.
Click to expand...
That does not hold true for Financial Aid provided which needs to be equal according participation rates with males and females etc.

There needs to be justification for it not to be equal which market place value would be justification.
 
Rockinchair said:
Probably been mentioned, but seems to me that the smaller schools, smaller as in NAIA and juco use sports like D3 does…as a moneymaker. Sure hand out some partial scholarships here and there, but the player is on the hook for the rest of the tuition, buying books, and paying for room and board…all while the entire coaching staff probably makes $60k combined and the facilities are, well, you know.
Click to expand...

The overviews you linked to were interesting. Some of these smaller private schools scattered across the country...sport acts as a moneymaker, at least in part, by serving as a lure to attract students. For these schools, the challenge is "how to attract students willing to come all the way out here and pay what we are charging". Like you say, they often have a high percentage of student athletes. Give them a little break on tuition, etc. Family/student on the hook for say, 40-50K/year. But you get to play a college sport. Academic quality, well, hit and miss. We checked out a number of such schools that contacted my kid. If the goal is strictly to play, those opportunities are out there-for a price. And some of them, for the right student, are good opportunities.

We drove by Drake University in Des Moines, IA recently and they generally fit with your overviews, although they are a lower tier D1. Total enrollment, less than 3000. About 500 of them are student/athletes. I looked at the men's soccer roster (which seems incomplete). A mixture of guys from across the country (midwest focused) and internationals. Kind of what you'd expect.
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
The overviews you linked to were interesting. Some of these smaller private schools scattered across the country...sport acts as a moneymaker, at least in part, by serving as a lure to attract students. For these schools, the challenge is "how to attract students willing to come all the way out here and pay what we are charging". Like you say, they often have a high percentage of student athletes. Give them a little break on tuition, etc. Family/student on the hook for say, 40-50K/year. But you get to play a college sport. Academic quality, well, hit and miss. We checked out a number of such schools that contacted my kid. If the goal is strictly to play, those opportunities are out there-for a price. And some of them, for the right student, are good opportunities.

We drove by Drake University in Des Moines, IA recently and they generally fit with your overviews, although they are a lower tier D1. Total enrollment, less than 3000. About 500 of them are student/athletes. I looked at the men's soccer roster (which seems incomplete). A mixture of guys from across the country (midwest focused) and internationals. Kind of what you'd expect.
Click to expand...
My niece just experienced it this year. She was "recruited" by so many small private schools offering tuition discount but the real marketing ploy is college sports for mediocre athletes.
Very hard not to be cynical but there are a lot of willing victims. This is a rich country. I just feel sorry for people who take out loans for this.
 
jojon said:
My niece just experienced it this year. She was "recruited" by so many small private schools offering tuition discount but the real marketing ploy is college sports for mediocre athletes.
Very hard not to be cynical but there are a lot of willing victims. This is a rich country. I just feel sorry for people who take out loans for this.
Click to expand...

I share your cynicism, but for more broadly based reasons. The "mediocre player" part IMO is probably not uniformly true, or, more precisely, it depends on what you are evaluating. On the guys recruitment side, it is important to realize the extent to which many of our 17/18 year old players are disadvantaged compared to international U23s and older transfer students. They simply are not where they will be physically in two more years. D1 size and D1 speed is a cliche. But if you have ever positioned yourself quietly behind the folding chairs at a tourney and listened to what is being said you'll realize these coaches are not exactly playing 12D chess. There are so many technical and high soccer IQ kids in SoCal who just age out or suck it up and go to a small school in the midwest in order to keep playing-at least three just from my son's team. There was a post on a different thread today about how convincing parents that the goal of youth soccer is not to play in college was like screaming at the ocean. That's true-I sympathize with the perspective. But the koan remains-what are we developing these kids for? There is something false about expecting the relatively small percentage of kids who put in thousands of hours over the years of a youth sports career, and then just think they are going to switch that drive off, with a pat on the back and some hollow adult aphorisms about valuable life lessons. But, certainly on the guys soccer side, that is what we do. I read once where if you love the game it will be cruel to you in the end and the farther you go the crueler it will be. Perhaps that's true.

It's also important to say that not all these smaller non-state schools are just rip offs, although they are clearly bastions of socio-economic privledge. Some of them have good academic programs and, when you talk to them, coaches that come across as reasonable human beings with decent soccer pedigrees. But it is also buyer beware and you need to do your homework. If things don't work out, you get injured, etc it is important to suss out up front "is there any other reason for me to be here spending this money".
 
jojon said:
My niece just experienced it this year. She was "recruited" by so many small private schools offering tuition discount but the real marketing ploy is college sports for mediocre athletes.
Very hard not to be cynical but there are a lot of willing victims. This is a rich country. I just feel sorry for people who take out loans for this.
Click to expand...
I have a very dear friend who feels just like you Jojon. His dd was offered a discount to play at a D3 in the State of Vermont or a discount at a D2 in South Dakota. Dad was pissed off because Doc said with his training and connections, D1 would be knocking. Covid hit so not all the Docs fault because most schools cut their deals in half. 2023 is looking better. Doc said he got her a deal and that's all he could promise. He never promised her a rose garden and now dad feels like his kid was played the last three years. Yes and no. She would have been a for sure D1 pick before the pandemic.
 
jojon said:
My niece just experienced it this year. She was "recruited" by so many small private schools offering tuition discount but the real marketing ploy is college sports for mediocre athletes.
Very hard not to be cynical but there are a lot of willing victims. This is a rich country. I just feel sorry for people who take out loans for this.
Click to expand...
The small schools with so-so soccer programs aren't necessarily trying to fool you.

They are offering a service. It is a premium service. They have smaller classes, more sports teams, room in the drama productions, and so on.

It also costs more. If you have the money and want to spend it that way, enjoy!. If money is tight, there are better options.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top