Interesting column on the future of women's college sports

Simisoccerfan said:
www.cbssports.com

College football realignment news: Notre Dame on deck; Pac-12, Big 12 could merge; SEC vs. Big Ten playoff?

Realignment may cool off for the holiday, but it's about to pick up again any day now
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com

“If football and basketball players are paid directly, that will run straight into Title IX concerns. Title IX is the 1973 federal law that mandates equal opportunities for an underrepresented gender at institutions that receive federal money. That discriminated gender has mostly referred to women. Simply put, the market value of Young and a women's cross-country athlete are different.

By the letter of the law, each should get an equal salary.

The Knight Commission suggested solution in December 2020: The FBS would break away as a separate entity and be funded by the CFP.”

Paying these athletes is going to happen. Also these colleges can’t afford to pay non revenue generating athletes let alone pay them equally. Not sure how this will exactly develop but big changes are coming and I can guess who will be on the losing side.
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The answer is that sports in college will still exist. What will change is that players will be paid X amount but they will no longer get scholarships. Magically the amout paid will be exactly equal to the amout they would be given as a scholarship. You see the shell game? Nothing will change initially.

What will blow things up is when college sports players unionize + bring in agents.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
The answer is that sports in college will still exist. What will change is that players will be paid X amount but they will no longer get scholarships. Magically the amout paid will be exactly equal to the amout they would be given as a scholarship. You see the shell game? Nothing will change initially.

What will blow things up is when college sports players unionize + bring in agents.
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The salary will automatically be the same as a scholarship, except when it isn’t.

There are high school seniors whose fair market value is well above tuition + R&B. They know it, and the boosters know it. Even if Alabama won’t offer 300K for a top recruit, someone will.

Which is good. That player probably would rather buy his mom a house than subsidize my daughter’s scholarship. And he is right to do it.
 
Keepermom2 said:
LOL. You forgot the third option which most colleges have chosen to do....add more women's sports opportunities.

Without Title IX, you most likely would not be coaching even if you only coach boys teams, and you would most likely not be a DOC for a soccer club as you have claimed you are. Title IX created the growing market for female youth sports, the increased demand for youth soccer coaches and soccer clubs. With the expectation of the youth sports market to be $77.6 billion by 2026 and female participation calculated during the pandemic to be 45% of the youth sports participation, it is short sited by the author of this article to look at capitalism drivers only within the confines of the college setting, and it would be too limiting to only look at the professional sports market. The investment in female sports by the government through the passing of Title IX has certainly paid off and will continue to pay off. Given the following information, my guess is there would now be some significant money thrown in the pool by stake holders to ensure women's sports at the college and high school levels are appropriately represented. Just recently private investors ponied up $75 million into the WNBA.

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In addition, without Title IX, there wouldn't be a USWNT that recently started generating more revenue than the USMNT.

Also, there were certain college men's sports that were added back after deletion during the pandemic because of Title IX noncompliance.

Having said that, I believe the calculations used to determine equality need to be revisited to add certain variables instead of one size fits all because I have seen a small amount of instances where the men are not equal to the women in the calculations.
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ok keeper mom. Not going to read all that. Funny you waste your life responding with a whole essay to a baiting comment.
 
dad4 said:
The salary will automatically be the same as a scholarship, except when it isn’t.

There are high school seniors whose fair market value is well above tuition + R&B. They know it, and the boosters know it. Even if Alabama won’t offer 300K for a top recruit, someone will.

Which is good. That player probably would rather buy his mom a house than subsidize my daughter’s scholarship. And he is right to do it.
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If they pay them by scholarship, salary or McDonald's gift certificates, it doesn't matter. Title IX equity calcs. will still come to play. "OCR examines the total program afforded to male student-athletes and the total program afforded to female student-athletes and whether each program meets the standards of equal treatment. Title IX does not require that each team receive exactly the same services and supplies. Rather, Title IX requires that the men and women's program receive the same level of service, facilities, supplies and etc. Variations within the men and women's program are allowed, as long as the variations are justified. "
 
Keepermom2 said:
Haha....your response makes me laugh and was totally predicted. Do you feel better about yourself?
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Getting back on topic...

Something I find interesting is that traditionally mens professional clubs in Europe are starting to embrace womens teams and players.

From what I've seen the pro clubs are just as ruthless with the women as they are with the men. Which is all top level women players have been asking for.

Will it pan put for top talent? Probably not, but that's ok.
 
Keepermom2 said:
If they pay them by scholarship, salary or McDonald's gift certificates, it doesn't matter. Title IX equity calcs. will still come to play. "OCR examines the total program afforded to male student-athletes and the total program afforded to female student-athletes and whether each program meets the standards of equal treatment. Title IX does not require that each team receive exactly the same services and supplies. Rather, Title IX requires that the men and women's program receive the same level of service, facilities, supplies and etc. Variations within the men and women's program are allowed, as long as the variations are justified. "
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How do even do the current equity calculation if the football team has a 5 million dollar roster? (85 players. It’s not unreasonable.)

Matching slots makes more sense. “there are 85 players on football, so we need about 85 players on women’s sports teams.”.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Getting back on topic...

Something I find interesting is that traditionally mens professional clubs in Europe are starting to embrace womens teams and players.

From what I've seen the pro clubs are just as ruthless with the women as they are with the men. Which is all top level women players have been asking for.

Will it pan put for top talent? Probably not, but that's ok.
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Europe is very different. They have a distinct separation between education and athletics. Their University system is public funded abd virtually free. They don't waste resources on facilities that don't directly affect an academic major.

As my Dutch cousins told me,

"if you want to play a sport then join a club. I don't need my engineering school to have a football team. Also by this age you should have already decided if you want to do football or engineering. There is no time at University in Holland to be good at both".
 
USC is now paying every single athlete $5000 cash stipend regardless if they are on scholarship or not. I think they started that this year.
 
dad4 said:
How do even do the current equity calculation if the football team has a 5 million dollar roster? (85 players. It’s not unreasonable.)

Matching slots makes more sense. “there are 85 players on football, so we need about 85 players on women’s sports teams.”.
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The current calculation is ensuring financial aid given to student athletes is equitable between men and women. "The second broad issue, represented by Component II, is whether any financial aid related to athletics is being distributed on an equitable basis."

Also, coaches salaries are not included in the calculation.
 
Keepermom2 said:
The current calculation is ensuring financial aid given to student athletes is equitable between men and women. "The second broad issue, represented by Component II, is whether any financial aid related to athletics is being distributed on an equitable basis."

Also, coaches salaries are not included in the calculation.
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In that case, why would running a semi-pro football team count against Title IX at all?

It’s salary, not financial aid.
 
espola said:
Are the players on that semi-pro team students who have been given preferential admission to the school?
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I don’t think preferential admission will be a factor as there are several other categories such as “academic” or “DEI” that an athlete could be given preference under without invoking Title IX.
 
espola said:
Are the players on that semi-pro team students who have been given preferential admission to the school?
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Of course not. Our admissions process strives to create a diverse student body composed of world class scholars from all walks of life whose personal and professional conduct exemplify the virtues of West Podunk State.`
 
dad4 said:
In that case, why would running a semi-pro football team count against Title IX at all?

It’s salary, not financial aid.
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Financial aid is not defined in the 1 sentence law. In all the guidance issued in the last 50 years by the OCR or the precedents established through the court system and the OCR, financial aid is scholarships or the like because that was the only form of aid provided. I think any attorney that tried to make the argument that salaries is different than financial aid and should be excluded from the equality calculation will most likely not succeed with that argument. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like a duck, it is a duck! Many have tried to fight the application of Title IX in the court system even winning at the lower court level at times, but eventually losing in appeals based on the spirit of the law of equality of the opportunities between men and women.

There is no guidance or precedence established related to the suggested scheme. As Espola pointed out, the preferential admission to said college presents the struggle under Title IX with future guidance sure to be provided should a school attempt the third party scheme. In addition to admissions, where are the students going to live, practice, play games?

I see the endorsement deals with certain athletes as the best option for a chance at getting through Title IX hurtles. It has already started, but certain sports attorneys have presented equality issues of the school's involvement with helping set up those endorsement deals and the connection to the school in the endorsements. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the court system.

The following is from a position paper from The Drake Group:
"Universities must not only focus on their own Title IX compliance obligations to provide male and female athletes with equal participation opportunities, athletics scholarship support, and equal treatment and benefits (including promotion, publicity, and recruiting), they must also require the third parties they establish, control, assist, or benefit from — conferences, national governing organizations, businesses, booster clubs and NIL collectives — to do likewise. With specific regard to the support of college athletes’ NIL agreements, institutions and these third parties must provide equal opportunities for male and female athletes to obtain NIL agreements (recognizing that the value of such agreements will be subject to the marketplace). Institutions cannot use third parties as a subterfuge to evade their Title IX legal obligations."
 
Keepermom2 said:
Financial aid is not defined in the 1 sentence law. In all the guidance issued in the last 50 years by the OCR or the precedents established through the court system and the OCR, financial aid is scholarships or the like because that was the only form of aid provided. I think any attorney that tried to make the argument that salaries is different than financial aid and should be excluded from the equality calculation will most likely not succeed with that argument. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like a duck, it is a duck! Many have tried to fight the application of Title IX in the court system even winning at the lower court level at times, but eventually losing in appeals based on the spirit of the law of equality of the opportunities between men and women.

There is no guidance or precedence established related to the suggested scheme. As Espola pointed out, the preferential admission to said college presents the struggle under Title IX with future guidance sure to be provided should a school attempt the third party scheme. In addition to admissions, where are the students going to live, practice, play games?

I see the endorsement deals with certain athletes as the best option for a chance at getting through Title IX hurtles. It has already started, but certain sports attorneys have presented equality issues of the school's involvement with helping set up those endorsement deals and the connection to the school in the endorsements. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the court system.

The following is from a position paper from The Drake Group:
"Universities must not only focus on their own Title IX compliance obligations to provide male and female athletes with equal participation opportunities, athletics scholarship support, and equal treatment and benefits (including promotion, publicity, and recruiting), they must also require the third parties they establish, control, assist, or benefit from — conferences, national governing organizations, businesses, booster clubs and NIL collectives — to do likewise. With specific regard to the support of college athletes’ NIL agreements, institutions and these third parties must provide equal opportunities for male and female athletes to obtain NIL agreements (recognizing that the value of such agreements will be subject to the marketplace). Institutions cannot use third parties as a subterfuge to evade their Title IX legal obligations."
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What does Drake Group even mean when they say “equal opportunities to obtain NIL agreements”?

Same right to sign? Sure, but that’s free.

Same dollar amount? Who is going to sign millions of dollars in NIL contracts for essentially unknown female athletes? Or are the courts going to require that male athletes give half their NIL money to female athletes?
 
Keepermom2 said:
The current calculation is ensuring financial aid given to student athletes is equitable between men and women. "The second broad issue, represented by Component II, is whether any financial aid related to athletics is being distributed on an equitable basis."

Also, coaches salaries are not included in the calculation.
Click to expand...

Many colleges are not currently meeting Title IX and they are getting away with it. Title IX means equal opportunity not equal finances. No way any women's teams are treated as well as Men's Football or Basketball. Look at the scandal a few years ago with the NCAA B Ball Tourney and how women are treated compared to men. Do you think anything lasting was done about that? Once players are being paid you won't have to pay a women's soccer player the same as a men's football player. Those colleges that can't compete financially in the future of big money college football could drop those programs. Do you really think there would be as many women's college sports and teams if that happened.
 
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