If your youth coach wants to practice headers...

dad4 said:
The point still stands. There are good soccer players who don't head the ball much. Messi would be the obvious example on the men's side.

Or is there some reason he doesn't count?
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All interactions with Grace T are:

You: In general...
GT: Exception..
You: But 99.9%.
GT: Talks about the 0.1% at length.
You: [Has a point.]
GT: [Will never concede your point, will raise an aside to maintain GT's right without ever acknowledging your point.]
You: Word.
GT: Last word.
You: Word.
GT: Last word.
You: [Eventually realizes it is about the last word and has life, so gives up posting.]
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
Always playing to the exception and not the rule.
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I don't think Messi is the exception. He may be at one end of the spectrum, but certain positions and styles of play don't head as much. The CTE case cited is a defender. Defenders head the ball way more than anyone else on the field.

That all aside, we left a team recently after it seemed like the coach was putting certain players on defense regularly in danger. A pile of injuries at the CB/Goalie positions and multiple concussions. None of them from headers, just from reckless plays. Reviewing the tape, I could bake it down to not coaching how to properly defend individually and as a team.

I used to be very into an extreme sport. After a while you realize you need to learn how to properly bail, how to evaluate safety before committing, and to accept safety gear despite discomfort or dorkiness. Do those things and you can do the sport more and longer. There is probably a middle ground between "man up" and quitting.
 
dad4 said:
The point still stands. There are good soccer players who don't head the ball much. Messi would be the obvious example on the men's side.

Or is there some reason he doesn't count?
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The point under discussion was the defensive line in the boys game. Of course the mids head less than front back or keepers but they do it too. Why are you citing an exception to the rule?

the girls may or may not be the same. I don’t know. I haven’t seen enough games to tell so I have no opinion
 
Grace T. said:
The point under discussion was the defensive line in the boys game. Of course the mids head less than front back or keepers but they do it too. Why are you citing an exception to the rule?

the girls may or may not be the same. I don’t know. I haven’t seen enough games to tell so I have no opinion
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Only boys and only defense?

The original post had neither of those restrictions.

It was a broad claim about heading in youth soccer, in general. Now you're trying to limit that discussion to only one gender and only 2-4 positions.

Enough with the revisionism. You don't get to limit the discussion to some small subset where you think your argument is stronger.
 
dad4 said:
Only boys and only defense?

The original post had neither of those restrictions.

It was a broad claim about heading in youth soccer, in general. Now you're trying to limit that discussion to only one gender and only 2-4 positions.

Enough with the revisionism. You don't get to limit the discussion to some small subset where you think your argument is stronger.
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As usual you always seek to refrain the discussion in the way it suits you. The post you replied to specifically talked about the boys game. I don’t know whether it’s true or not of the girls game so I can’t take a position.

the points I raised in the boys games was practice was critical because headers are integral to scoring on crosses and headers, the defensive line (which you took issue with and cited a female defender) and dfks. You haven’t rebutted any of those assertions other than to say Messi is a midfielder…he heads less…even though he still heads and all you have to do is search “Messi header” on YouTube and you’ll pull up a bunch. You’ve pointed out one female exception and one lesser occurrence to argue heading somehow heading isn’t important to the game.

you always seek to bend reality to justify the world you want to see instead of world like it is. Heading is critical to the boys game under current rules and must be practiced as a result. You’ve said nothing that rebuts that.
 
Grace T. said:
As usual you always seek to refrain the discussion in the way it suits you. The post you replied to specifically talked about the boys game. I don’t know whether it’s true or not of the girls game so I can’t take a position.

the points I raised in the boys games was practice was critical because headers are integral to scoring on crosses and headers, the defensive line (which you took issue with and cited a female defender) and dfks. You haven’t rebutted any of those assertions other than to say Messi is a midfielder…he heads less…even though he still heads and all you have to do is search “Messi header” on YouTube and you’ll pull up a bunch. You’ve pointed out one female exception and one lesser occurrence to argue heading somehow heading isn’t important to the game.

you always seek to bend reality to justify the world you want to see instead of world like it is. Heading is critical to the boys game under current rules and must be practiced as a result. You’ve said nothing that rebuts that.
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OP was not restricted by gender or position:

"If your youth coach wants to practice headers...
....change teams/clubs."

The only reference to boys or defense was a link to the tragic story of a young man who died at 44 from complications of CTE.

Ok. So let's talk about the consequences from that link.

In effect, you are saying- " yeah, you might get brain damage and permanent migraines so bad you overdose on painkillers, but we need you to head the ball so we can win a youth soccer game."
 
This discussion sounds very similar to the football CTE discussions 10-20yrs ago. Until we see more MLS guys killing themselves like Junior Seau and Aaron Hernandez, the majority will not believe that their beloved sport of soccer causes brain trauma. My original point is fairly simple...if you have a coach that likes to practice headers from corner kicks etc. once a week or every other week for 20-30 minutes, I would seriously question his/her judgment, suggest a different approach, and take a hike if they refuse to change. I don't want to wait 30 years to see if my kid can't function due to CTE from weekly headers at 14yrs old. But I guess I'm soft.
 
oh canada said:
This discussion sounds very similar to the football CTE discussions 10-20yrs ago. Until we see more MLS guys killing themselves like Junior Seau and Aaron Hernandez, the majority will not believe that their beloved sport of soccer causes brain trauma. My original point is fairly simple...if you have a coach that likes to practice headers from corner kicks etc. once a week or every other week for 20-30 minutes, I would seriously question his/her judgment, suggest a different approach, and take a hike if they refuse to change. I don't want to wait 30 years to see if my kid can't function due to CTE from weekly headers at 14yrs old. But I guess I'm soft.
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Just throwing a ball into a crowd and shouting "head it!" is not practicing headers, it is practicing mayhem. Proper heading technique is taught one on one, with the coach demonstrating and then correcting the player's actions until he gets it right.

Note: use of the word "he" above is not intended to restrict the discussion to male players only.
 
dad4 said:
OP was not restricted by gender or position:

"If your youth coach wants to practice headers...
....change teams/clubs."

The only reference to boys or defense was a link to the tragic story of a young man who died at 44 from complications of CTE.

Ok. So let's talk about the consequences from that link.

In effect, you are saying- " yeah, you might get brain damage and permanent migraines so bad you overdose on painkillers, but we need you to head the ball so we can win a youth soccer game."
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we are back to the original premise (don’t you love how how we go round and round). Heading is an integral part of the (boys) game. It must be practiced

if you think that so dangerous don’t play

if you don’t like the don’t play result campaign to change the game (you better by your ticket to Europe because that’s who has to change it…the us will never put itself at a competitive disadvantage while the Europeans allow headers in the youth game)

otherwise mitigate it by playing at a lower level, play the midfield where it’s not as important, and encourage the coaches to take steps like using safe equipment. Most coaches on the boys end though at the higher levels aren’t practicing headed techniques by throwing balls at player by age 14. It’s expected they know it and at age 12-13 they really focus on it usually in skills training. By 14 they are practicing running crosses, corner scrums, dfk and the defensive line. They are doing it in small sided scrimmages. At least on the boys end Saying my kid won’t head is a guarantee of getting them dropped to a lower placed team
 
toucan said:
I dispute the validity of comparing headers to the helmet-to-helmet hits made by American football players like Junior Seau and Aaron Hernandez. Those guys weigh over 200 pounds, are running at speed at the time of the impact, and are intentionally trying to deliver hard hits to the other guy. They will have body and head impacts 30 times in a game or more. By comparison, a properly-inflated soccer ball is a softer body in motion, weighing slightly less than a pound, and flying at a predictable trajectory. In a professional game, a typical soccer player may only head the ball 2 or 3 times, and most of those balls are not moving very fast. Obviously, free kicks, punts and hard driven balls like crosses have greater energy.

While I respect your concern about the potential for CTE in soccer, I think you greatly overstate the risk insofar as headers are concerned. Again, most soccer-related concussions are caused by other types of contact with the head. Personally, I have never seen a concussion arise from an intentional header, though I don't doubt that it could happen. And while I agree that too much practicing of headers is unnecessary and unwise, I have never personally met the coach who spends the amount of time practicing headers as you describe.

If you are concerned about headers, then your child is already 12 years old or above. If the science catches up and says that headers cause CTE, that won't happen for a decade at least. Your son or daughter will have aged out before then. If you act according to your beliefs, then you must tell your child not to do headers in practices or games. This will have consequences. Your child will not be able to play competitive soccer during his or her youth unless he or she is willing to head the ball. Others will take your child's spot in the line-up.
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I played 8 years AYSO and I could never master it and I gave up. I got a headache every time I tried and is probably why I got GK job. I told my little one not get into jump balls and NOT try and head and jump with the big girls. She only will use her head to score a goal and the game better have something on the line or she is not going in with her head. Using your head to score makes the game fun to watch and cause GK to get frozen.
 
toucan said:
If you are concerned about headers, then your child is already 12 years old or above. If the science catches up and says that headers cause CTE, that won't happen for a decade at least.
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Wouldn’t my child already have suffered the damage by that time?
 
toucan said:
I dispute the validity of comparing headers to the helmet-to-helmet hits made by American football players like Junior Seau and Aaron Hernandez. Those guys weigh over 200 pounds, are running at speed at the time of the impact, and are intentionally trying to deliver hard hits to the other guy. They will have body and head impacts 30 times in a game or more. By comparison, a properly-inflated soccer ball is a softer body in motion, weighing slightly less than a pound, and flying at a predictable trajectory. In a professional game, a typical soccer player may only head the ball 2 or 3 times, and most of those balls are not moving very fast. Obviously, free kicks, punts and hard driven balls like crosses have greater energy.

While I respect your concern about the potential for CTE in soccer, I think you greatly overstate the risk insofar as headers are concerned. Again, most soccer-related concussions are caused by other types of contact with the head. Personally, I have never seen a concussion arise from an intentional header, though I don't doubt that it could happen. And while I agree that too much practicing of headers is unnecessary and unwise, I have never personally met the coach who spends the amount of time practicing headers as you describe.

If you are concerned about headers, then your child is already 12 years old or above. If the science catches up and says that headers cause CTE, that won't happen for a decade at least. Your son or daughter will have aged out before then. If you act according to your beliefs, then you must tell your child not to do headers in practices or games. This will have consequences. Your child will not be able to play competitive soccer during his or her youth unless he or she is willing to head the ball. Others will take your child's spot in the line-up.
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Very well said. I would just add the concussion awareness has improved significantly in soccer the last few years. For the DA and the MLS Next they had/have concussion baseline testing of each player at the beginning of the season and are supposed to follow strict concussion protocols. Even in a 30 minute crossing drill there aren't not that many headers. While an integral part of the game, headers aren't practiced much or actually done much in a game. To repeat to the OP if your worried about CTE from soccer, headers aren't the significant issue.

Slide tackles are an integral part of the game as well, and make you vulnerable to getting kicked in the head (as my son can attest). Where does the list stop of things your going to tell the coach your son won't do? Will only play on soft fields etc?
 
dad4 said:
Or teach them foot skills. That works too.

Not sure where you get the idea that every coach insists on heading clearance balls. The coaches I have met are far more reasonable than that.
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Heading is a part of the game. Would you like to get rid of punts, set pieces and corners to further reduce the potential for injury?

Please show me where I even insinuated that every coach insists on this.
 
I played CB, I simply don't know how that position could be played effectively without heading the ball. The game would change drastically if they removed headers from the game.

I do think it would be great if we taught kids more possession based play and less ping pong ball. Even watching some of the MLS Next Cup games I cringe a bit.
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
Heading is a part of the game. Would you like to get rid of punts, set pieces and corners to further reduce the potential for injury?

Please show me where I even insinuated that every coach insists on this.
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More accurate to say that both Grace and Toucan put forward that, if you insist on no headers, your kid will lose their spot. So far, this has not been my experience. Not heading just means you need to work harder on traps and foot skills.

For now, heading is a part of the game. Flopping at minor contact and lining up 3 yards from the free kick are also part of the game. Some parts of the game don’t actually make the game better.

Eventually, FIFA might actually take a break from lining their pockets with bribes and think for a moment about player safety. Probably not.
 
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