How's that Elite 64 League going?

[RandomSoccerFan]

I can say this from experience. Our E64 team plays “friendlies” against two playoff ECNL teams each year and go back and forth win, loss, and draw each year.

In California? I don't believe you. Which E64 team? All of the discussions/quotes of mine for league strength and all of the screenshots earlier in this thread are specific for California. It's quite possible that E64 teams in other areas have very different levels of competitiveness, including what you are describing.

 

[justabystander]

So which of the biggest clubs ( E64 means elite 64 clubs in USA) don't have ECNL or GA? Only one i can think of would be AYSO itself but the talent level there .. well at least in AZ is not so good. 99% of the good players for AYSO Challenge or whatever it is called now get scooped up by clubs.

Looking at Soccer Rankings not seeing any E64 teams in top 20 anywhere

07 boys have two in the 25 plus a former USYS finalist and semi finalist in the top 10.

 

[justabystander]

In California? I don't believe you. Which E64 team? All of the discussions/quotes of mine for league strength and all of the screenshots earlier in this thread are specific for California. It's quite possible that E64 teams in other areas have very different levels of competitiveness, including what you are describing.

Dude relax. I should have clarified location. I am sorry. not in California. Midwest. I know this is a California soccer forum and it’s a great read .the California boys e64 teams did very poor in our age group and I can definitely see why the comments reflect that.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Completely relaxed. But you misquoted me out of context to provide a correction that wasn't. Happy for your team. Hope they can overcome any political/personal conflicts to get themselves to a league that challenges them properly.

 

[justabystander]

Completely relaxed. But you misquoted me out of context to provide a correction that wasn't. Happy for your team. Hope they can overcome any political/personal conflicts to get themselves to a league that challenges them properly.

Thanks for the reply. I would gladly share specifics with you if there was a way to PM on here.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

PM's should be right here: (Click the envelope button at top right of page to start a new conversation)

 

[Highlander]

In California? I don't believe you. Which E64 team? All of the discussions/quotes of mine for league strength and all of the screenshots earlier in this thread are specific for California. It's quite possible that E64 teams in other areas have very different levels of competitiveness, including what you are describing.

Las Vegas Surf 09G Elite 64 did pretty good at Surf Cup vs ECNL.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Las Vegas Surf 09G Elite 64 did pretty good at Surf Cup vs ECNL.

Yep - looks like that team is actually the #1 2009G team in the entire state (of Nevada). The state isn't California, of course, but yes - it's an E64 team.



It also happens to be the #1 2009G E64 team in the entire country, at #26. Only two other E64 teams make the top #100 nationally at that age bracket.



When people talk about how strong E64 can be - LV Surf E64 2009G appears either the best example, or the best exception, depending on one's point of view.

In California? I don't believe you. Which E64 team? All of the discussions/quotes of mine for league strength and all of the screenshots earlier in this thread are specific for California. It's quite possible that E64 teams in other areas have very different levels of competitiveness, including what you are describing.

 

[Highlander]

When people talk about how strong E64 can be - LV Surf E64 2009G appears either the best example, or the best exception, depending on one's point of view.

The 2008s have 3 top 100 teams...Michigan Tigers at #14. So considering this is a new league I would say they are doing pretty good. I'm sure there are a lot of crappy teams - but the same can be said of ECNL....just more of them in Elite 64 right now. That might slowly change in years to come.

To me the more interesting angle is this - why do we have yet another league? Because clubs are sick of losing players to ECNL clubs when those ECNL clubs don't really have to develop players because they have the golden hand cuffs. They can get away with crappy coaching, crappy tactics, etc and still get good players. The entire system is broken.

 

[Highlander]

This got me wondering why such a strong club like Michigan Tigers (in Ann Arbor, MI) is only in the Elite 64. Did a quick google search and found there are already both ECNL and GA clubs within 45 minutes drive of their location. This is the problem - clubs get frozen out even if they are good. I guarantee some existing ECNL/GA clubs have veto power on letting new clubs in.

 

[justabystander]

This got me wondering why such a strong club like Michigan Tigers (in Ann Arbor, MI) is only in the Elite 64. Did a quick google search and found there are already both ECNL and GA clubs within 45 minutes drive of their location. This is the problem - clubs get frozen out even if they are good. I guarantee some existing ECNL/GA clubs have veto power on letting new clubs in.

the veto power is absolutely true! The local closest ECNL team to us has boys teams that are average at best and consistently at the bottom of their table. They recruit players that don’t make our top teams. Their director is an ECNL founding member and has been very vocal about saying he will never let us into ECNL.

 

[justabystander]

This got me wondering why such a strong club like Michigan Tigers (in Ann Arbor, MI) is only in the Elite 64. Did a quick google search and found there are already both ECNL and GA clubs within 45 minutes drive of their location. This is the problem - clubs get frozen out even if they are good. I guarantee some existing ECNL/GA clubs have veto power on letting new clubs in.

there 07 boys were really good but their too 4 players left for MLSnext teams. Chloe ricketts played for the boys side through 21-22 season although she was ineffective by that age in a boys league. Tigers are considered an average clubhere in the great lakes / Midwest leagues.

 

[Code]

Well, the other major difference is the level of training they are getting. The Academy teams aren't just "top" teams but the way they are structured is different. It's virtually impossible, for example, to remain on the academic honors track and do Academy. The MLS Next Teams are training 2-4 times a week after school for practices that are generally 1.2-2 hours long. The MLS Academy teams have not only practice but a conditioning but classroom element as well as specialty coaching (one MLS Next Club here in town couldn't even afford a goalkeeper coach and let there's go midseason last year). The facilities are also a huge difference...one MLS Next Team my kid trained with plays in a public park. You can't go through the two programs and say they are the same thing. While they might both be dogs, you are comparing a pit bull to a chihuahua. If you look at the games as well (many of which are available online), in SoCal at least, strikers is really the only major competition for most of the academy age levels.

The entire MLS Next program is structured around the needs of the MLS Academy teams, which are in a much more intense travel session for their official league. The regular teams serve as cannon fodder (for practice including to allow the second stringers some game time and the reserves an opportunity to dress). Some of the regular teams also serve as recruitment grounds (one of the reason folks want to play for Strikers isn't just because they win, or because they have a program with some specialty training that tries to approximate the academies, but also because Galaxy and LAFC regularly look at their players, indeed much more so than their ECNL affiliate LAFC-SOCAL/Real SoCal)

All of this solidifies my position that MLS Next is not challenging ECNL. On the MLS Boys side, there is a slim piece of the pie that is excellent; and the majority that is "cannon fodder" (Tier 2 apparently). If they just get rid of the "Next" teams and only play "Academy" teams, MLS Academy becomes unchallenged as the top dog, but the Travel would be on par with the Professional teams (which may be the way to go). But, I wouldn't consider that scenario a Youth Soccer League as much as a Professional League. As long as the "Next" and "Academy" teams are involved with each other, the Boys ECNL side is neck and neck with the MLS Next League overall. If MLS "Next" teams are separated, it seems likely the ECNL would be outperforming them. As it stands today, they are neck and neck.

On the girls side, Girls MLS Next: Mark it a Zero Dude.


Girls ECNL, no challenger, Tier 1. MLS left out over 50% of the population in their Youth Soccer product. So even though they have a small number of the best teams on the boys side, and a lot of very good teams, there is no threat of them knocking ECNL out of the top spot. They compete with ECNL on the Boys side, and didn't even show up for the Girls side.

 

[Highlander]

All of this solidifies my position that MLS Next is not challenging ECNL. On the MLS Boys side, there is a slim piece of the pie that is excellent; and the majority that is "cannon fodder" (Tier 2 apparently). If they just get rid of the "Next" teams and only play "Academy" teams, MLS Academy becomes unchallenged as the top dog, but the Travel would be on par with the Professional teams (which may be the way to go). But, I wouldn't consider that scenario a Youth Soccer League as much as a Professional League. As long as the "Next" and "Academy" teams are involved with each other, the Boys ECNL side is neck and neck with the MLS Next League overall. If MLS "Next" teams are separated, it seems likely the ECNL would be outperforming them. As it stands today, they are neck and neck.

Might depend where you are but in my neck of the woods in NorCal - ECNL Boys pretty much sucks (some exceptions of course). MLS Next dominates and there are a bunch of NPL teams that are better than all the ECNL Boys teams and even most MLS Next teams. Might be different elsewhere but ECNL Boys is not the draw it used to be. MLS Next is where everyone wants to go.

 

[Grace T.]

All of this solidifies my position that MLS Next is not challenging ECNL. On the MLS Boys side, there is a slim piece of the pie that is excellent; and the majority that is "cannon fodder" (Tier 2 apparently). If they just get rid of the "Next" teams and only play "Academy" teams, MLS Academy becomes unchallenged as the top dog, but the Travel would be on par with the Professional teams (which may be the way to go). But, I wouldn't consider that scenario a Youth Soccer League as much as a Professional League. As long as the "Next" and "Academy" teams are involved with each other, the Boys ECNL side is neck and neck with the MLS Next League overall. If MLS "Next" teams are separated, it seems likely the ECNL would be outperforming them. As it stands today, they are neck and neck.

On the girls side, Girls MLS Next: Mark it a Zero Dude.
View attachment 18214

Girls ECNL, no challenger, Tier 1. MLS left out over 50% of the population in their Youth Soccer product. So even though they have a small number of the best teams on the boys side, and a lot of very good teams, there is no threat of them knocking ECNL out of the top spot. They compete with ECNL on the Boys side, and didn't even show up for the Girls side.

Depends on the region of the country. In SoCal, on the boys side, it's pretty clear MLS Next (even without the academies thrown in) is superior by some. ECNL simply can't compete with the MLS brand, the chance for the top boys to get looked at by LAFC/Galaxy, and the large swaths of territory each has carved out. On top of that, ECNL is limited to 10 or so clubs on the boys side and it's dispersal really doesn't make a whole lot of sense (such as the Downtown LA triangle black out or the fact there is only really 1 club north of LA and it's in the Val....at least unless/until Eagles qualifies ECNL). Where the drag for MLS Next comes is from some of the periphery such as Murrieta which can't hope to aggregate talent the way that LA Surf, Strikers, former LAUFA, TFA and LASC (which is supposed to be the valley club now). In Norcal, the boys ECNL side reportedly doesn't do that great and most of the attention is at the MLS Level. In Washington, Sounders is the only MLS club so ECNL rules the Northwest. In Texas, there's been a lot of drama with some teams leaving MLS Next and going to ECNL and some no name clubs suddenly winding up with promotion at MLS Next. In Florida, it's all about MLS Next because that's where IMG's and Tampa's top team is not to mention the academies.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Might depend where you are but in my neck of the woods in NorCal - ECNL Boys pretty much sucks (some exceptions of course). MLS Next dominates and there are a bunch of NPL teams that are better than all the ECNL Boys teams and even most MLS Next teams. Might be different elsewhere but ECNL Boys is not the draw it used to be. MLS Next is where everyone wants to go.

Familiar with NorCal as well, and while this may appear slightly exaggerated above, the relative rankings/ratings for the top teams are in line with what the ratings show. MLS Next holds (and deserves) the top few spots for all of the top boys teams from U13 on up. Below that there are some reasonably good ECNL teams and some reasonably good NPL teams interspersed in most of the age groups. In some age groups there are 3 or 4 NPL teams from NorCal that would be expected to show up the leading NorCal ECNL teams. But it's a stretch to say that there are a bunch of NPL teams that are better than most MLS Next teams as if that were the norm or the expectation. Yes - there are some embarrassingly weak MLS Next teams in the area, but by and large all but the bottom quartile of MLS Next NorCal would still beat most of even the top-rated NPL teams pretty handily. By the same token, there are some very weak NPL teams as well - a good number of them showing well into the bottom half of competitive teams in CA.

The good news is that if you're fortunate enough to be playing on a decent NPL boys team in the area - at this point there may not be much of a gap (if any) to a comparable ECNL team nearby. It probably also makes sense to mention that the top NPL bracket has been renamed ECNL-RL this year, so when referring to the top NPL teams, they are really top RL teams. It's not strange that a good RL team would be competitive vs. NL - that's not just a NorCal phenomenon. But MLS Next is a different discussion - even if there are some MLS Next teams that by all rights are fooling themselves about their typical level of play.

 

[Highlander]

Familiar with NorCal as well, and while this may appear slightly exaggerated above, the relative rankings/ratings for the top teams are in line with what the ratings show. MLS Next holds (and deserves) the top few spots for all of the top boys teams from U13 on up. Below that there are some reasonably good ECNL teams and some reasonably good NPL teams interspersed in most of the age groups. In some age groups there are 3 or 4 NPL teams from NorCal that would be expected to show up the leading NorCal ECNL teams. But it's a stretch to say that there are a bunch of NPL teams that are better than most MLS Next teams as if that were the norm or the expectation. Yes - there are some embarrassingly weak MLS Next teams in the area, but by and large all but the bottom quartile of MLS Next NorCal would still beat most of even the top-rated NPL teams pretty handily. By the same token, there are some very weak NPL teams as well - a good number of them showing well into the bottom half of competitive teams in CA.

The good news is that if you're fortunate enough to be playing on a decent NPL boys team in the area - at this point there may not be much of a gap (if any) to a comparable ECNL team nearby. It probably also makes sense to mention that the top NPL bracket has been renamed ECNL-RL this year, so when referring to the top NPL teams, they are really top RL teams. It's not strange that a good RL team would be competitive vs. NL - that's not just a NorCal phenomenon. But MLS Next is a different discussion - even if there are some MLS Next teams that by all rights are fooling themselves about their typical level of play.

True - I'm probably exaggerating a bit because my friends sons play at an NPL club that have never lost to ECNL teams and beat almost all the MLS Next teams they have played. None of these players or more importantly their parents (LOL) want to go to ECNL...it's one MLS Next that is talked about.

 

[focomoso]

As long as the "Next" and "Academy" teams are involved with each other, the Boys ECNL side is neck and neck with the MLS Next League overall. If MLS "Next" teams are separated, it seems likely the ECNL would be outperforming them. As it stands today, they are neck and neck.

Certainly not in Southern California. Even without LAFC and Galaxy, MLS Next is stronger than ECNL and every year, more kids move over furthering the imbalance. Mid-table MLS Next teams routinely beet top-table ECNL teams when they get to play in the pre-season tournaments.

 

[justabystander]

Might depend where you are but in my neck of the woods in NorCal - ECNL Boys pretty much sucks (some exceptions of course). MLS Next dominates and there are a bunch of NPL teams that are better than all the ECNL Boys teams and even most MLS Next teams. Might be different elsewhere but ECNL Boys is not the draw it used to be. MLS Next is where everyone wants to go.

Ditto for the Midwest.

There are quality teams and players in every league.
Bottom line is coaches recruit individual players not teams. Sure coaches may give some teams more attention. Quote from my daughter's club coach who was also a D1 coach at the same time, "So many leagues keep popping up and clubs joining then calling themselves elite. Everyone joins all these elite leagues and then really nobody is elite but everyone the same".

A local club who never beat my son's team and was average placing 5th in the league joined ECNL last year. Same players, same club, same coaching staff. They are suddenly elite and better than other teams from other leagues because they joined ECNL??? Hmmm. Another local ECNL team can't beat many of the local USYS teams in friendlies and they are in the bottom of their ECNL table every year, but they are elite right? A few other clubs from our region joined MLS Next but were average even within their states - so now they are suddenly among the best??? Hmm.

Bottom line so many parents want to talk about what league their kids are in and what leagues are better. Just remember coaches recruit individuals not teams.

For reference, my daughter came up USYS and didn't want to play on the ECNL team because that team for her birth year was weak and couldn't even get out of group play in the USYS State Cup last she played them. She also didn't want to go down and play for the Girls DA club. She won multiple USYS State and High School D1 State Championship. Of the 12 girls on her club roster that wanted to play in college, 7 of them ended up on D1 rosters with athletic scholarships, including my daughter. Another girl is a starter on the #1 ranked DII team and two other girls starters on top DII teams. My daughter is now a junior on a strong DI program with athletic scholarship and has played in every game with exception of two her freshman year when she suffered an ankle sprain during a game. Combined with other scholarships and I pay nothing for her college.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Ditto for the Midwest.

There are quality teams and players in every league.
Bottom line is coaches recruit individual players not teams. Sure coaches may give some teams more attention. Quote from my daughter's club coach who was also a D1 coach at the same time, "So many leagues keep popping up and clubs joining then calling themselves elite. Everyone joins all these elite leagues and then really nobody is elite but everyone the same".

A local club who never beat my son's team and was average placing 5th in the league joined ECNL last year. Same players, same club, same coaching staff. They are suddenly elite and better than other teams from other leagues because they joined ECNL??? Hmmm. Another local ECNL team can't beat many of the local USYS teams in friendlies and they are in the bottom of their ECNL table every year, but they are elite right? A few other clubs from our region joined MLS Next but were average even within their states - so now they are suddenly among the best??? Hmm.

Bottom line so many parents want to talk about what league their kids are in and what leagues are better. Just remember coaches recruit individuals not teams.

For reference, my daughter came up USYS and didn't want to play on the ECNL team because that team for her birth year was weak and couldn't even get out of group play in the USYS State Cup last she played them. She also didn't want to go down and play for the Girls DA club. She won multiple USYS State and High School D1 State Championship. Of the 12 girls on her club roster that wanted to play in college, 7 of them ended up on D1 rosters with athletic scholarships, including my daughter. Another girl is a starter on the #1 ranked DII team and two other girls starters on top DII teams. My daughter is now a junior on a strong DI program with athletic scholarship and has played in every game with exception of two her freshman year when she suffered an ankle sprain during a game. Combined with other scholarships and I pay nothing for her college.

Many, especially newer Girls ECNL in Socal parents drink the kool-aid.

The truth is that yes there are 3-4 very good clubs playing in Socal ECNL + on a couple of their teams a large percentage of the players will go onto higher level play.

However no recruiter has ever gone to check out high level talent + said that team that's getting pummeled they sure are good at losing. It's never happened + never will. If you want to get noticed no matter what league youre playing in you need to be in the top 1% to 10% of the teams (depending on league strength).

Girls ECNL in Socal got a big boost when DA blow up and the big clubs all went back to the most stable (at the time) option which was ECNL. Will things stay the way they are now? Probably for a while but eventually someone will get disgruntled or start thinking the grass is greener.

The boys side has already shown that leagues more aligned with a professional track vs a college track are more appealing to top talent. If history repeats itself girls youth soccer will likely do the same as the women's professional game continues to grow + gain fans.

The one thing you can always count on with youth sports is change.

 

[Code]

Certainly not in Southern California. Even without LAFC and Galaxy, MLS Next is stronger than ECNL and every year, more kids move over furthering the imbalance. Mid-table MLS Next teams routinely beet top-table ECNL teams when they get to play in the pre-season tournaments.

Are you able to actually provide some examples of these routine occurrences?