How's that Elite 64 League going?

[Carlsbad7]

Never heard of those teams. So I guess relegation is gone, but everyone gets promoted!

Pro/Rel only works when more teams want to play in your league than available spots.

In Socal if CSL booted anyone for poor performance that team/club would likely just go to Socal/NPL or E64 or DPL or ECRL where they won't get booted for poor performance.

 

[#girldad]

Too many leagues and divisions...The ones the scouts and colleges attend are the only one that really matters, right? Or are players chasing the dream of holding up that elusive league championship trophy? Just wondering...

 

[SurfSupDude]

Too many leagues and divisions...The ones the scouts and colleges attend are the only one that really matters, right? Or are players chasing the dream of holding up that elusive league championship trophy? Just wondering...

I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not. My sarcasm meter might be broken this morning.

Personally, I LOVE that there is an option for every kid.

 

[justabystander]

I'd instead read that info as - the very top E64 teams would likely do just fine in RL, but would struggle against any strong ECNL team. A "middle of the table" E64 team might compete with a "middle of the table" RL team, but it would come down much more to which specific team being used to compare. No "middle of the table" E64 team would be expected to have any luck against all but the weakest ECNL teams.

I can say this from experience. Our E64 team plays “friendlies” against two playoff ECNL teams each year and go back and forth win, loss, and draw each year. These are ECNL teams are strong and make national playoffs each year. Also we easily handled the RL team that made national final four without a problem and with us using a lot of bench players.

 

[justabystander]

I can say this from experience. Our E64 team plays “friendlies” against two playoff ECNL teams each year and go back and forth win, loss, and draw each year. These are ECNL teams are strong and make national playoffs each year. Also we easily handled the RL team that made national final four without a problem and with us using a lot of bench players.

and we left e64 this year. It was too easy. We are stuck because we partner with the pro mls team and they use our team as their primary feeder club. So we don’t have an MLS at the club with exception of U13 and U14. The local ECNL team which is awful btw on the boys side, has a director that is supposedly a big dog in ECNL and won’t let out club in because he knows his club will go under the day that happens.
Our club is strong just stuck. We will do this NAL thing this year, but i think we will win that too.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I can say this from experience. Our E64 team plays “friendlies” against two playoff ECNL teams each year and go back and forth win, loss, and draw each year.

In California? I don't believe you. Which E64 team? All of the discussions/quotes of mine for league strength and all of the screenshots earlier in this thread are specific for California. It's quite possible that E64 teams in other areas have very different levels of competitiveness, including what you are describing.

 

[justabystander]

So which of the biggest clubs ( E64 means elite 64 clubs in USA) don't have ECNL or GA? Only one i can think of would be AYSO itself but the talent level there .. well at least in AZ is not so good. 99% of the good players for AYSO Challenge or whatever it is called now get scooped up by clubs.

Looking at Soccer Rankings not seeing any E64 teams in top 20 anywhere

07 boys have two in the 25 plus a former USYS finalist and semi finalist in the top 10.

 

[justabystander]

In California? I don't believe you. Which E64 team? All of the discussions/quotes of mine for league strength and all of the screenshots earlier in this thread are specific for California. It's quite possible that E64 teams in other areas have very different levels of competitiveness, including what you are describing.

Dude relax. I should have clarified location. I am sorry. not in California. Midwest. I know this is a California soccer forum and it’s a great read .the California boys e64 teams did very poor in our age group and I can definitely see why the comments reflect that.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Completely relaxed. But you misquoted me out of context to provide a correction that wasn't. Happy for your team. Hope they can overcome any political/personal conflicts to get themselves to a league that challenges them properly.

 

[justabystander]

Completely relaxed. But you misquoted me out of context to provide a correction that wasn't. Happy for your team. Hope they can overcome any political/personal conflicts to get themselves to a league that challenges them properly.

Thanks for the reply. I would gladly share specifics with you if there was a way to PM on here.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

PM's should be right here: (Click the envelope button at top right of page to start a new conversation)

 

[Highlander]

In California? I don't believe you. Which E64 team? All of the discussions/quotes of mine for league strength and all of the screenshots earlier in this thread are specific for California. It's quite possible that E64 teams in other areas have very different levels of competitiveness, including what you are describing.

Las Vegas Surf 09G Elite 64 did pretty good at Surf Cup vs ECNL.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Las Vegas Surf 09G Elite 64 did pretty good at Surf Cup vs ECNL.

Yep - looks like that team is actually the #1 2009G team in the entire state (of Nevada). The state isn't California, of course, but yes - it's an E64 team.



It also happens to be the #1 2009G E64 team in the entire country, at #26. Only two other E64 teams make the top #100 nationally at that age bracket.



When people talk about how strong E64 can be - LV Surf E64 2009G appears either the best example, or the best exception, depending on one's point of view.

In California? I don't believe you. Which E64 team? All of the discussions/quotes of mine for league strength and all of the screenshots earlier in this thread are specific for California. It's quite possible that E64 teams in other areas have very different levels of competitiveness, including what you are describing.

 

[Highlander]

When people talk about how strong E64 can be - LV Surf E64 2009G appears either the best example, or the best exception, depending on one's point of view.

The 2008s have 3 top 100 teams...Michigan Tigers at #14. So considering this is a new league I would say they are doing pretty good. I'm sure there are a lot of crappy teams - but the same can be said of ECNL....just more of them in Elite 64 right now. That might slowly change in years to come.

To me the more interesting angle is this - why do we have yet another league? Because clubs are sick of losing players to ECNL clubs when those ECNL clubs don't really have to develop players because they have the golden hand cuffs. They can get away with crappy coaching, crappy tactics, etc and still get good players. The entire system is broken.

 

[Highlander]

This got me wondering why such a strong club like Michigan Tigers (in Ann Arbor, MI) is only in the Elite 64. Did a quick google search and found there are already both ECNL and GA clubs within 45 minutes drive of their location. This is the problem - clubs get frozen out even if they are good. I guarantee some existing ECNL/GA clubs have veto power on letting new clubs in.

 

[justabystander]

This got me wondering why such a strong club like Michigan Tigers (in Ann Arbor, MI) is only in the Elite 64. Did a quick google search and found there are already both ECNL and GA clubs within 45 minutes drive of their location. This is the problem - clubs get frozen out even if they are good. I guarantee some existing ECNL/GA clubs have veto power on letting new clubs in.

the veto power is absolutely true! The local closest ECNL team to us has boys teams that are average at best and consistently at the bottom of their table. They recruit players that don’t make our top teams. Their director is an ECNL founding member and has been very vocal about saying he will never let us into ECNL.

 

[justabystander]

This got me wondering why such a strong club like Michigan Tigers (in Ann Arbor, MI) is only in the Elite 64. Did a quick google search and found there are already both ECNL and GA clubs within 45 minutes drive of their location. This is the problem - clubs get frozen out even if they are good. I guarantee some existing ECNL/GA clubs have veto power on letting new clubs in.

there 07 boys were really good but their too 4 players left for MLSnext teams. Chloe ricketts played for the boys side through 21-22 season although she was ineffective by that age in a boys league. Tigers are considered an average clubhere in the great lakes / Midwest leagues.

 

[Code]

Well, the other major difference is the level of training they are getting. The Academy teams aren't just "top" teams but the way they are structured is different. It's virtually impossible, for example, to remain on the academic honors track and do Academy. The MLS Next Teams are training 2-4 times a week after school for practices that are generally 1.2-2 hours long. The MLS Academy teams have not only practice but a conditioning but classroom element as well as specialty coaching (one MLS Next Club here in town couldn't even afford a goalkeeper coach and let there's go midseason last year). The facilities are also a huge difference...one MLS Next Team my kid trained with plays in a public park. You can't go through the two programs and say they are the same thing. While they might both be dogs, you are comparing a pit bull to a chihuahua. If you look at the games as well (many of which are available online), in SoCal at least, strikers is really the only major competition for most of the academy age levels.

The entire MLS Next program is structured around the needs of the MLS Academy teams, which are in a much more intense travel session for their official league. The regular teams serve as cannon fodder (for practice including to allow the second stringers some game time and the reserves an opportunity to dress). Some of the regular teams also serve as recruitment grounds (one of the reason folks want to play for Strikers isn't just because they win, or because they have a program with some specialty training that tries to approximate the academies, but also because Galaxy and LAFC regularly look at their players, indeed much more so than their ECNL affiliate LAFC-SOCAL/Real SoCal)

All of this solidifies my position that MLS Next is not challenging ECNL. On the MLS Boys side, there is a slim piece of the pie that is excellent; and the majority that is "cannon fodder" (Tier 2 apparently). If they just get rid of the "Next" teams and only play "Academy" teams, MLS Academy becomes unchallenged as the top dog, but the Travel would be on par with the Professional teams (which may be the way to go). But, I wouldn't consider that scenario a Youth Soccer League as much as a Professional League. As long as the "Next" and "Academy" teams are involved with each other, the Boys ECNL side is neck and neck with the MLS Next League overall. If MLS "Next" teams are separated, it seems likely the ECNL would be outperforming them. As it stands today, they are neck and neck.

On the girls side, Girls MLS Next: Mark it a Zero Dude.


Girls ECNL, no challenger, Tier 1. MLS left out over 50% of the population in their Youth Soccer product. So even though they have a small number of the best teams on the boys side, and a lot of very good teams, there is no threat of them knocking ECNL out of the top spot. They compete with ECNL on the Boys side, and didn't even show up for the Girls side.

 

[Highlander]

All of this solidifies my position that MLS Next is not challenging ECNL. On the MLS Boys side, there is a slim piece of the pie that is excellent; and the majority that is "cannon fodder" (Tier 2 apparently). If they just get rid of the "Next" teams and only play "Academy" teams, MLS Academy becomes unchallenged as the top dog, but the Travel would be on par with the Professional teams (which may be the way to go). But, I wouldn't consider that scenario a Youth Soccer League as much as a Professional League. As long as the "Next" and "Academy" teams are involved with each other, the Boys ECNL side is neck and neck with the MLS Next League overall. If MLS "Next" teams are separated, it seems likely the ECNL would be outperforming them. As it stands today, they are neck and neck.

Might depend where you are but in my neck of the woods in NorCal - ECNL Boys pretty much sucks (some exceptions of course). MLS Next dominates and there are a bunch of NPL teams that are better than all the ECNL Boys teams and even most MLS Next teams. Might be different elsewhere but ECNL Boys is not the draw it used to be. MLS Next is where everyone wants to go.

 

[Grace T.]

All of this solidifies my position that MLS Next is not challenging ECNL. On the MLS Boys side, there is a slim piece of the pie that is excellent; and the majority that is "cannon fodder" (Tier 2 apparently). If they just get rid of the "Next" teams and only play "Academy" teams, MLS Academy becomes unchallenged as the top dog, but the Travel would be on par with the Professional teams (which may be the way to go). But, I wouldn't consider that scenario a Youth Soccer League as much as a Professional League. As long as the "Next" and "Academy" teams are involved with each other, the Boys ECNL side is neck and neck with the MLS Next League overall. If MLS "Next" teams are separated, it seems likely the ECNL would be outperforming them. As it stands today, they are neck and neck.

On the girls side, Girls MLS Next: Mark it a Zero Dude.
View attachment 18214

Girls ECNL, no challenger, Tier 1. MLS left out over 50% of the population in their Youth Soccer product. So even though they have a small number of the best teams on the boys side, and a lot of very good teams, there is no threat of them knocking ECNL out of the top spot. They compete with ECNL on the Boys side, and didn't even show up for the Girls side.

Depends on the region of the country. In SoCal, on the boys side, it's pretty clear MLS Next (even without the academies thrown in) is superior by some. ECNL simply can't compete with the MLS brand, the chance for the top boys to get looked at by LAFC/Galaxy, and the large swaths of territory each has carved out. On top of that, ECNL is limited to 10 or so clubs on the boys side and it's dispersal really doesn't make a whole lot of sense (such as the Downtown LA triangle black out or the fact there is only really 1 club north of LA and it's in the Val....at least unless/until Eagles qualifies ECNL). Where the drag for MLS Next comes is from some of the periphery such as Murrieta which can't hope to aggregate talent the way that LA Surf, Strikers, former LAUFA, TFA and LASC (which is supposed to be the valley club now). In Norcal, the boys ECNL side reportedly doesn't do that great and most of the attention is at the MLS Level. In Washington, Sounders is the only MLS club so ECNL rules the Northwest. In Texas, there's been a lot of drama with some teams leaving MLS Next and going to ECNL and some no name clubs suddenly winding up with promotion at MLS Next. In Florida, it's all about MLS Next because that's where IMG's and Tampa's top team is not to mention the academies.