GIRLS DAII

That's true, but it doesn't mean it's good for girls soccer. If we all agree on the maxim that playing against the best makes you better, then this league is a detriment to that maxim. The next level teams after DA are going to be spread out over too many leagues. For example, you have I.E. Surf Premiere, BYSC, and Rangers, all in good spots to make CRL, and they will all be playing in CSL. Then you're also going to have some good teams in ECNL and SCDSL flight 1 (not too sure about Presidio), but all these teams in all of these leagues will not be able to play each other consistently. These DA II teams could all have played in flight 1. There is also no guarantee that all these DA II teams will be quality teams.

I agree with some of this and disagree with two parts. I agree that these teams should play one another. Steel sharpens steel. Having so many leagues makes it very hard to get some of these teams on the same pitch. I don't understand why teams don't scrimmage more often?

As for the disagree parts.......(1) you state "then this league is a detriment to that maxim". How do you draw this conclusion? The league has not played one game yet. Doesn't it seem a tad premature to say it is a detriment? (2) you also state that "there is no guarantee that all these DA II teams will be quality teams". No doubt that is a true statement, but look at any league in any sport and there are lower quality teams. Just look at the ECNL standings (any age group). Those teams at the bottom are not quality teams in terms of the ECNL standard.

When ECNL started their own CLOSED playing circuit, they made it tough for the non-ECNL teams to play the ECNL teams. Why do so many people give ECNL a free pass for starting a closed playing circuit just like DA II is now doing?

My dd plays for a DA II program and I think the DPL league is unnecessary. I think her team would be just fine playing in Flight 1 in the SCDSL or Premier level at CSL.
 
Steel sharpens steel. So, @Justafan , I agree with the maxim. You all were sold a dream and bought it. Hopefully, it works out for your DD. I'm just happy you all got a label. What's next? C teams will be DAIII?:rolleyes:
 
I agree with some of this and disagree with two parts. I agree that these teams should play one another. Steel sharpens steel. Having so many leagues makes it very hard to get some of these teams on the same pitch. I don't understand why teams don't scrimmage more often?

As for the disagree parts.......(1) you state "then this league is a detriment to that maxim". How do you draw this conclusion? The league has not played one game yet. Doesn't it seem a tad premature to say it is a detriment? (2) you also state that "there is no guarantee that all these DA II teams will be quality teams". No doubt that is a true statement, but look at any league in any sport and there are lower quality teams. Just look at the ECNL standings (any age group). Those teams at the bottom are not quality teams in terms of the ECNL standard.

When ECNL started their own CLOSED playing circuit, they made it tough for the non-ECNL teams to play the ECNL teams. Why do so many people give ECNL a free pass for starting a closed playing circuit just like DA II is now doing?

My dd plays for a DA II program and I think the DPL league is unnecessary. I think her team would be just fine playing in Flight 1 in the SCDSL or Premier level at CSL.

It is incorrect to say that ECNL simply created a closed system here in SoCal. ECNL was forced into a closed system in SoCal my friend. Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) would not allow the ECNL teams to count their ECNL games in the CSL Premier standings nor would they allow them to play with their substitution rules (Premier at the time had unlimited substitutions). ECNL tried to compromise here in SoCal but Mr. Sparks thought incorrectly that since he had the 800 pound gorilla (CSL Premier was widely considered the top non-national league in the country) that he could dictate to his paying customers (the clubs) what was going to happen. The ECNL clubs along with many other clubs broke off to form the SCDSL. In the inaugural season each of the ECNL teams actually played several games against the top non-ECNL teams as part of the agreement to form the league in a showcase format.

CSL Premier was responsible for ECNL breaking off in SoCal. Please get that straight. Some of us on this forum lived through that turf war.
 
It is incorrect to say that ECNL simply created a closed system here in SoCal. ECNL was forced into a closed system in SoCal my friend. Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) would not allow the ECNL teams to count their ECNL games in the CSL Premier standings nor would they allow them to play with their substitution rules (Premier at the time had unlimited substitutions). ECNL tried to compromise here in SoCal but Mr. Sparks thought incorrectly that since he had the 800 pound gorilla (CSL Premier was widely considered the top non-national league in the country) that he could dictate to his paying customers (the clubs) what was going to happen. The ECNL clubs along with many other clubs broke off to form the SCDSL. In the inaugural season each of the ECNL teams actually played several games against the top non-ECNL teams as part of the agreement to form the league in a showcase format.

CSL Premier was responsible for ECNL breaking off in SoCal. Please get that straight. Some of us on this forum lived through that turf war.

Fair enough MAP. I was wrong in my history on ECNL. The league started in 2009 and my dd was not in club soccer then, so I had no idea what ECNL was.

Question though....when did ECNL become a closed playing circuit?

Yes, GS and CSL overplayed their hand with their member clubs and ECNL.

Thank you for the info.
 
That's true, but it doesn't mean it's good for girls soccer. If we all agree on the maxim that playing against the best makes you better, then this league is a detriment to that maxim. The next level teams after DA are going to be spread out over too many leagues. For example, you have I.E. Surf Premiere, BYSC, and Rangers, all in good spots to make CRL, and they will all be playing in CSL. Then you're also going to have some good teams in ECNL and SCDSL flight 1 (not too sure about Presidio), but all these teams in all of these leagues will not be able to play each other consistently. These DA II teams could all have played in flight 1. There is also no guarantee that all these DA II teams will be quality teams.
That it why I feel CRL is important, as it will be, where all the top non ECNL/DA teams will get to play each other no matter what league they are from. Also the fact they have a play in tournament to see who gets in and who doesn't is good. Hopefully all the top teams from each league make it.
 
Fair enough MAP. I was wrong in my history on ECNL. The league started in 2009 and my dd was not in club soccer then, so I had no idea what ECNL was.

Question though....when did ECNL become a closed playing circuit?

Yes, GS and CSL overplayed their hand with their member clubs and ECNL.

Thank you for the info.
Fair enough if it was true. It isn't.
 
It is incorrect to say that ECNL simply created a closed system here in SoCal. ECNL was forced into a closed system in SoCal my friend. Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) would not allow the ECNL teams to count their ECNL games in the CSL Premier standings nor would they allow them to play with their substitution rules (Premier at the time had unlimited substitutions). ECNL tried to compromise here in SoCal but Mr. Sparks thought incorrectly that since he had the 800 pound gorilla (CSL Premier was widely considered the top non-national league in the country) that he could dictate to his paying customers (the clubs) what was going to happen. The ECNL clubs along with many other clubs broke off to form the SCDSL. In the inaugural season each of the ECNL teams actually played several games against the top non-ECNL teams as part of the agreement to form the league in a showcase format.

CSL Premier was responsible for ECNL breaking off in SoCal. Please get that straight. Some of us on this forum lived through that turf war.

Sorry MAP, but you do the memory of Mr. Sparks a disservice with an error of ommission, and give the ECNL too much credit. The most problematic, non-negotiable demand that the ECNL clubs made on CSL was that their ECNL teams would always be Premier -- no relegation. Yes, some of the other demands they made where not so unreasonable, a middle ground could have been found, and Mr. Sparks made many mistakes. But telling CSL, a league who at its foundation believed in promotion and relegation, that 8 ECNL teams every year would be Premier, regardless of their performance, would fundamentally change CSL. Not just the control, but create different classes among its member clubs, and who knows what the fallout might have been from that.

As for those ECNL games against the non-ECNL SCDSL teams, the ones that lasted I think two seasons, the ECNL clubs viewed them as a joke. My DD's non-ECNL team beat Slammers ECNL, the team that had Kayla Mills on it and was probably the best in Socal at the time, in one of those games. However, neither Kayla nor another 5-6 starters where anywhere to be found for those games. They brought up B team players. The exact quote from the Slammers' parents at the time "you did not play Slammers."

Some of us lived through that turf war. Most of the ECNL clubs (Surf, Slammers, etc.) wanted a change in control of CSL Pemier even before ECNL existed. I do not blame ECNL as a league for the break, I think the responsibility is shared by the ECNL Socal clubs and CSL.
 
Don't get why this is so difficult. A few years after the formation of ECNL, they needed to re-evaluate and add/subtract clubs based on their then-current success or failure. Then other clubs could have been added based upon their then-current success (as in Legends and Beach for example). Geographically, this would have saved ECNL from the chopping block and helped a lot of families make better choices in SoCAl.
 
Don't get why this is so difficult. A few years after the formation of ECNL, they needed to re-evaluate and add/subtract clubs based on their then-current success or failure. Then other clubs could have been added based upon their then-current success (as in Legends and Beach for example). Geographically, this would have saved ECNL from the chopping block and helped a lot of families make better choices in SoCAl.
If US Soccer was going to create a Girls DA League. It wouldn't have mattered, if ECNL already had Beach and Legends in ECNL. Girls DAn would still have had the same seismic shift. You are giving those 2 clubs two much credit.
 
If US Soccer was going to create a Girls DA League. It wouldn't have mattered, if ECNL already had Beach and Legends in ECNL. Girls DAn would still have had the same seismic shift. You are giving those 2 clubs two much credit.
I would add, on the flipside if Surf, Blues, WCFC, Slammers, RSC and Eagles all had a united front and told US Soccer go pound sand. We are ALL not participating in Girls DA, like the NorCal ECNL clubs and Sting did. They would have put a HUGE hurt on Girls DA in SoCal.

IMO, the clubs mentioned above controlled the SoCal girls club market, but they didn't think it through and didn't realize their branding was stronger.
 
Sorry MAP, but you do the memory of Mr. Sparks a disservice with an error of ommission, and give the ECNL too much credit. The most problematic, non-negotiable demand that the ECNL clubs made on CSL was that their ECNL teams would always be Premier -- no relegation. Yes, some of the other demands they made where not so unreasonable, a middle ground could have been found, and Mr. Sparks made many mistakes. But telling CSL, a league who at its foundation believed in promotion and relegation, that 8 ECNL teams every year would be Premier, regardless of their performance, would fundamentally change CSL. Not just the control, but create different classes among its member clubs, and who knows what the fallout might have been from that.

As for those ECNL games against the non-ECNL SCDSL teams, the ones that lasted I think two seasons, the ECNL clubs viewed them as a joke. My DD's non-ECNL team beat Slammers ECNL, the team that had Kayla Mills on it and was probably the best in Socal at the time, in one of those games. However, neither Kayla nor another 5-6 starters where anywhere to be found for those games. They brought up B team players. The exact quote from the Slammers' parents at the time "you did not play Slammers."

Some of us lived through that turf war. Most of the ECNL clubs (Surf, Slammers, etc.) wanted a change in control of CSL Pemier even before ECNL existed. I do not blame ECNL as a league for the break, I think the responsibility is shared by the ECNL Socal clubs and CSL.
Of course the ECNL clubs had to request their teams weren't relegated. They had to play each other, so their results counted on the ECNL standings. If would be asinine for a relegated ECNL team to play their Gold opponents and then play their ECNL opponents in the Premier standings. It would have been impossible to play that many games in a Fall schedule.

CSL Premier bracketing was by invite anyways. So the invited teams could have been the ECNL clubs and 4 non-ECNL teams.
 
I would add, on the flipside if Surf, Blues, WCFC, Slammers, RSC and Eagles all had a united front and told US Soccer go pound sand. We are ALL not participating in Girls DA, like the NorCal ECNL clubs and Sting did. They would have put a HUGE hurt on Girls DA in SoCal.

IMO, the clubs mentioned above controlled the SoCal girls club market, but they didn't think it through and didn't realize their branding was stronger.

The only reason Sting dropped the DA is because if they did ECNL promised Sting a 2nd ECNL team in Austin (a market where Sting only has three current teams in total from U15-U19). It was a money grab by Sting, who knows they can't compete long term in the DA with FCD, Texans, and Solar.

ECNL gave a berth to a club, Sting Austin, that literally barely even exists. Their decision, and ECNL, is being ridiculed in Texas.

It highlighted the stark reality that, at it's worst, youth soccer is often about politics and money.
 
The only reason Sting dropped the DA is because if they did ECNL promised Sting a 2nd ECNL team in Austin (a market where Sting only has three current teams in total from U15-U19). It was a money grab by Sting, who knows they can't compete long term in the DA with FCD, Texans, and Solar.

ECNL gave a berth to a club, Sting Austin, that literally barely even exists. Their decision, and ECNL, is being ridiculed in Texas.

It highlighted the stark reality that, at it's worst, youth soccer is often about politics and money.

That comes as no surprise to me, because Youth Club Soccer in America as you posted "is often about politics and money".
 
I would add, on the flipside if Surf, Blues, WCFC, Slammers, RSC and Eagles all had a united front and told US Soccer go pound sand. We are ALL not participating in Girls DA, like the NorCal ECNL clubs and Sting did. They would have put a HUGE hurt on Girls DA in SoCal.

IMO, the clubs mentioned above controlled the SoCal girls club market, but they didn't think it through and didn't realize their branding was stronger.

I would prefer a governing body oversight rather than local track suits any day of the week.
I believe this is the first time in my life I have ever preferred that I may add- that's how little faith I have in the track suits and their ability to mange people and money.
Again as someone in a DA program I sense a difference and it has been a welcome change.
 
Of course the ECNL clubs had to request their teams weren't relegated. They had to play each other, so their results counted on the ECNL standings. If would be asinine for a relegated ECNL team to play their Gold opponents and then play their ECNL opponents in the Premier standings. It would have been impossible to play that many games in a Fall schedule.

CSL Premier bracketing was by invite anyways. So the invited teams could have been the ECNL clubs and 4 non-ECNL teams.

Thank you for helping prove my point. The Socal ECNL clubs demanded to take over CSL Premier (invite anyone you wnat, as long as it is us), a point MAP failed to highlight when blaming CSL for the split. It would have been asinine for CSL to agree to that, in the opinion of just about every club, coach, DOC and player in Socal, except for those in the ECNL. CSL listened to the majority of its members, in that circumstance, just as it likely did in not allowing DA2 to be a separate bracket (I have less insight there, as I care around as much as US Soccer does about B teams becoming their own league).

What CSL should have done is let the ECNL teams leave, without kicking out the entire clubs (what they did for Eagles). They needed to allow more than three teams per age group per club (which they allowed after the formation of the SCDSL). Those changes would have likely kept at last half of the ECNL clubs in CSL, may have prevented an SCDSL from ever occuring, and made CSL a stronger league than it ended up being post-ECNL.
 
I would prefer a governing body oversight rather than local track suits any day of the week.
I believe this is the first time in my life I have ever preferred that I may add- that's how little faith I have in the track suits and their ability to mange people and money.
Again as someone in a DA program I sense a difference and it has been a welcome change.
Track suit, sorry to break the news to you, but US Soccer Girls DA his head by April Heinrich who wears a NiKE track suit.
 
Thank you for helping prove my point. The Socal ECNL clubs demanded to take over CSL Premier (invite anyone you wnat, as long as it is us), a point MAP failed to highlight when blaming CSL for the split. It would have been asinine for CSL to agree to that, in the opinion of just about every club, coach, DOC and player in Socal, except for those in the ECNL. CSL listened to the majority of its members, in that circumstance, just as it likely did in not allowing DA2 to be a separate bracket (I have less insight there, as I care around as much as US Soccer does about B teams becoming their own league).

What CSL should have done is let the ECNL teams leave, without kicking out the entire clubs (what they did for Eagles). They needed to allow more than three teams per age group per club (which they allowed after the formation of the SCDSL). Those changes would have likely kept at last half of the ECNL clubs in CSL, may have prevented an SCDSL from ever occuring, and made CSL a stronger league than it ended up being post-ECNL.
Maybe, but it's all water under the bridge. CSL is a shell of itself now. CSL miscalculated and SCDSL was born which lead to Legends and Beach becoming the big clubs (SCDSL doesn't limit teams per age group) they are today.
 
All joking aside this is not about labels for yet another league for me, my players has no interest in any of that. Really a bigger picture kind of thing, my hope is that people can take a objective look at what is really going on and focus on what's important; the player(s) not the club, governing bodies, leagues, or any of this marketing fluff stuff.

#Rant-on
When clubs or orgs can't get what they want or along in a league; CSL, SCDSL, ECNL, DA, Presido instead of working things out some give up, pack up, split off and form another splinter league. To me this is a disturbing trend.

This is the reality; a bunch of competing governing bodies with different mandates, doing things "there way" marketing a better "Development" mousetrap. Everybody argues adnauseam who'd better, right or wrong and we have a clusterF***. This is what youth soccer is; usys, usclub, and ussda all doing things "there way" with no sharing, hierarchy. united vision, or getting along, competitor's with different agenda going for $. There are "commissioners" or management people in these leagues that are basically "politicians" that sever special interests be that more "$" or some other ideology that the customers don't have much of a say in .

Forget all that noise, Instead of all that we just need a open circuit players "leagues" that everybody can participate in. Ayso, non afflicted Latin teams, clubs, da, ECNL, whatever doesn't matter.

Just has to be open, affordable with a regulation and promotion system that's all. Can be grouped by geographic, regions, area or whatever. Can be three divisions or whatever else is needed so the competition is spread out. The focus has to be the player(s), not revenue collection, tournaments, scholarships, who is "Top's" or any of other stuff which is just a waste of time and resources IMO.

The amount of time (all day for a single game for example) and $ we spend to play in the current "Elite" leagues is ridiculously, one game 100+ miles away in Bakersfield, SD, or out of state for < 90 minutes of playing time is like standing in line at Disneyland all day for a few short couple minute "thrill rides". Fun once or when you're very young but get's old very quickly.

Forgot about investing so much time and resources to get a potential college "scholarship" through club soccer instead invest those $ in something that guarantees to pay back and provide the $ for that education.
#Rant-off

When our daughter started to play "travel soccer" many moons ago there was but one league and some small local grass roots clubs with some really dedicated people involved so we thought lets give this a try. Things worked well there was regulation and promotion, cut and dry, no drama. Every year since then things have gotten more complicated with the merger of the clubs, the affiliated model, the explosion of all these different "leagues" all competing with different agenda & motives.

She's has been fortunate to have some great coaches, good competition, fun traveling, success at the different tournaments, etc but will tell you that teammates and coaches are the only thing that really matters.

Leaving the local club for better competition was a very hard decision for her few years ago but she felt if she wasn't progressing she would regression, turned out to be good decision and she progressed at a good rate. Our local club which she loved couldn't get into any of the these "Closed elite" leagues because they just didn't have the resources or political clout to play the game even though the teams where good enough on a competitive basis and had the track record to back that up. Instead players started to slowly leave for what they thought we're greener pastures, teams broke up, and most the players didn't last long in their new environments for what every reasons, think she might be one of the only ones still playing in these leagues since those days. Youth soccer it seems is way more complicated than it should be IMO, I wish I didn't know some much about that.
 
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