Get ready folks

SoccerSanDiego said:
Of course they are playing against some of their peers.

We can argue if its 700K or 1.4M...doesn't matter, its a large number. This is the #1 reason to switch back.
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Why is it so critical for kids to play with classmates? and why is it so harmful if they don't? Is it the role of club soccer to ensure classmates play together? That sounds like more of the purview of rec and community based soccer.
 
TeamDadJokes said:
You’re right but that just doesn’t happen… most coaches at this age are with their high school teams they coach in the winter and the trapped players are an after thought
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It's the responsibility of the club to have an option available for these kids unless they're paying a reduced rate? If I'm paying the same amount as the 8th graders, I better get the same amount of coaching unless I choose not to (ie: my kid chooses school soccer.)

And what club's coaches are ALL HS coaches? I don't know of any.
 
Thatonedad said:
The age groups at least for ECNL are definitely going to change starting Fall 26. There is a possibility that ECNL does allow the trapped 8th graders to play down. It doesn’t sound like ECNL will make a full change for 25/26 but 2011-2013 may do something different. More Details will come out by end of January early February. This would only be ECNL idk anything about the other leagues. I barely know anything to begin with only get small nuggets of info from time to time.
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What are you basing this opinion on? I've seen absolutely nothing to support this.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
For those that don't know there's 3 main issues with SY.

1. Different school districts around the nation start at different times of year. What this means is there's no specific cutoff date that will work for everyone with SY. You can do a SY date like July 1 but this invites a different issue. Parents playing down for wins and holding kids back for youth soccer.

2. Parents actually will hold their kids back in school so they can be the biggest most mature on the team. Although SY is date defined they'll argue that their kid is in the same grade as other kids and should be able to play on the same teams.

3. Homeschooled kids can be all over the map and their parents are used to choosing which grade they participate in. Although this is addressed by specific cutoff dates. They will still pressure to get what they want.

SOCAL wants US Soccer to fix all the unfixable problems with SY. Or more specifically they want US Soccer to step up and assume a leadership role so SOCAL can blame US Soccer for all of SY's drawbacks.

US Soccer appears to be forcing all groups to follow standard processes and procedures so everyone's "neck is in the SY noose' evenly before implementing.
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You're killing me with the misinformation, smalls.

SY and BY are the exact same because they encompass 365 days of eligibility. The sole difference is which 365 days. SY will be a specific date (August 1-July 31 seems to be popular) and birth year is 1/1 to 12/31.

There is no "holding back kids for soccer" or "homeschoolers choosing a grade." They will be in whatever group their birthdate falls in to regardless of what grade they're in.

Your point about school cutoffs being wildly different across the country so no one date will work for all is accurate.

The main issue I have is that the chaos of a change doesn't eliminate any issues so is therefore a waste of time and resources. There will still be trapped players and there will still be kids that are the "wrong" age for recruiting on teams with kids that are the "right" age.
 
Offside no S said:
You're killing me with the misinformation, smalls.

SY and BY are the exact same because they encompass 365 days of eligibility. The sole difference is which 365 days. SY will be a specific date (August 1-July 31 seems to be popular) and birth year is 1/1 to 12/31.

There is no "holding back kids for soccer" or "homeschoolers choosing a grade." They will be in whatever group their birthdate falls in to regardless of what grade they're in.

Your point about school cutoffs being wildly different across the country so no one date will work for all is accurate.

The main issue I have is that the chaos of a change doesn't eliminate any issues so is therefore a waste of time and resources. There will still be trapped players and there will still be kids that are the "wrong" age for recruiting on teams with kids that are the "right" age.
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A SY change definitely doesn’t eliminate issues with trapped players but it does drastically limit the amount of kids effected, also prevents an 18 month age gap and large roster issues for the U19 groups.

I wouldn’t be surprised if ECNL goes grad year for 2026/2027. Not saying they should just wouldn’t be surprised.
 
Thatonedad said:
Just what my buddy told me. And most of what he tells me ends up happening. He is a ECNL director for one of the top girls clubs in California. But won’t know for sure until end of January.
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If there is no change on 25/26, then we should know by now. There may be some backroom politics, but I hope they do something for the current trapped players soon.
 
Offside no S said:
You're killing me with the misinformation, smalls.

SY and BY are the exact same because they encompass 365 days of eligibility. The sole difference is which 365 days. SY will be a specific date (August 1-July 31 seems to be popular) and birth year is 1/1 to 12/31.

There is no "holding back kids for soccer" or "homeschoolers choosing a grade." They will be in whatever group their birthdate falls in to regardless of what grade they're in.

Your point about school cutoffs being wildly different across the country so no one date will work for all is accurate.

The main issue I have is that the chaos of a change doesn't eliminate any issues so is therefore a waste of time and resources. There will still be trapped players and there will still be kids that are the "wrong" age for recruiting on teams with kids that are the "right" age.
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I don't think you understand what I wrote.

With BY the 365 day window of eligibility is completely separate from school grade. Because it's not associated with grade in school in any way there's no expectation that players in the same grade will be on the same teams.

With SY the 365 day eligibility window is associated with a grade in school. What this does is create an expectation that players in the same grade in should be on the same teams. You can try to lean into a specific cutoff date but there will ALWAYS be edge cases with SY. The edge case parents will whine and cry about not being able to play with their classmates in school just like the trapped player parents are doing now to BY.

The primary edge case situations are odd school district start dates, parents that hold their kids back in school, and homeschoolers. What these parents will push for is waivers to play on a team that's aligned with their kids grade in school.

If you think I'm overreacting look at Basketball which primarily aligns with SY but without an age cutoff. You end up with a large number of hold back players at the highest levels. This is what WILL happen to youth soccer over time because clubs never want to turn down a potential paying customer.

You don't see it out here (West Coast) as much but on the East Coast it's fairly common and often encouraged by private schools for parents to hold back kids. The schools do it because it's an extra year of tuition. The parents do it for wins in sports and to be better at academics. How do you think clubs will react when an entire team is "off track" in school compared to their age group in club soccer? Oh BTW there's local leagues that will allow these type of big $$$ parents to play with the grade their kid is in school. In this type of area ECNL clubs will be forced to forgo big $$$ parents and their players. How long do you think it will take for ECNL clubs to start asking for some sort of waiver accommodation?
 
Carlsbad7 said:
I don't think you understand what I wrote.

With BY the 365 day window of eligibility is completely separate from school grade. Because it's not associated with grade in school in any way there's no expectation that players in the same grade will be on the same teams.

With SY the 365 day eligibility window is associated with a grade in school. What this does is create an expectation that players in the same grade in should be on the same teams. You can try to lean into a specific cutoff date but there will ALWAYS be edge cases with SY. The edge case parents will whine and cry about not being able to play with their classmates in school just like the trapped player parents are doing now to BY.

The primary edge case situations are odd school district start dates, parents that hold their kids back in school, and homeschoolers. What these parents will push for is waivers to play on a team that's aligned with their kids grade in school.

If you think I'm overreacting look at Basketball which primarily aligns with SY but without an age cutoff. You end up with a large number of hold back players at the highest levels. This is what WILL happen to youth soccer over time because clubs never want to turn down a potential paying customer.

You don't see it out here (West Coast) as much but on the East Coast it's fairly common and often encouraged by private schools for parents to hold back kids. The schools do it because it's an extra year of tuition. The parents do it for wins in sports and to be better at academics. How do you think clubs will react when an entire team is "off track" in school compared to their age group in club soccer? Oh BTW there's local leagues that will allow these type of big $$$ parents to play with the grade their kid is in school. In this type of area ECNL clubs will be forced to forgo big $$$ parents and their players. How long do you think it will take for ECNL clubs to start asking for some sort of waiver accommodation?
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I think all the SY proponents here are in favor of a strict cutoff date, like we had before the last change.
 
Have faith in humanity everyone. espola and Husker Du are a lost cause at this point. I never say never but these two and Dad have seared consciouses and when one's conscious is seared by a hot iron, oh boy watch out.

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dad4 said:
I think all the SY proponents here are in favor of a strict cutoff date, like we had before the last change.
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How would you know this?

All the edge cases I described will agree with you because it gets them closer to where they ultimately want to be.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
If you think I'm overreacting look at Basketball which primarily aligns with SY but without an age cutoff. You end up with a large number of hold back players at the highest levels. This is what WILL happen to youth soccer over time because clubs never want to turn down a potential paying customer.
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This isn't accurate. Basketball has an age cutoff in pretty much all circumstances I've seen, and usually states that the player can't be older than age X by date Y, while also stating what grade is eligible (along with what exceptions are possible, and what ages are applicable). The complication comes in that these details vary across tournaments and geographies, so what is the effective cutoff in one circumstance can be very different in another. One example is below. The way the dates & ages are aligned, through the 6th grade division, there aren't as many "holdbacks". But once in 7th grade, the age skips a year, and holdbacks are much more common. This appears to address the fact that once in high school, a talented freshman is going to play against varsity seniors who may be 18/19 anyway.


bball age example.png
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
This isn't accurate. Basketball has an age cutoff in pretty much all circumstances I've seen, and usually states that the player can't be older than age X by date Y, while also stating what grade is eligible (along with what exceptions are possible, and what ages are applicable). The complication comes in that these details vary across tournaments and geographies, so what is the effective cutoff in one circumstance can be very different in another. One example is below. The way the dates & ages are aligned, through the 6th grade division, there aren't as many "holdbacks". But once in 7th grade, the age skips a year, and holdbacks are much more common. This appears to address the fact that once in high school, a talented freshman is going to play against varsity seniors who may be 18/19 anyway.


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So they net is that holding back kids is common in basketball and rules are implemented to accommodate it.

For those that think soccer parents won't hold their kids back for wins if given the opportunity you're sadly mistaken.

Here's a proponent of holding players back 1 and 2 years.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
So they net is that holding back kids is common in basketball and rules are implemented to accommodate it.
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Maybe, but the more pragmatic interpretation is that if you are bringing a team to tournament X to play in the top bracket, it's likely that they will face teams that have players near the top end of whatever the age rules for the tournament specify. Those teams would be expected to do well - while teams that have most or all players not as close to that top end, probably aren't as expected to do well. By 8th grade, if nobody on the team can dunk the basketball - it's not a competitive team.

Also, teams at the very pointy end often enter in age groups one or two years up in many events, to see better competition.
 
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