At the age groups being discussed here, maybe. But a kid or two that is good enough to make that kind of difference isn't going to a winless flight 1 team, they're looking to the top performers and big clubs, unless the parents haven't been around long.
Flight 1
- Thread starter Jamisfoes
- Start date
At the age groups being discussed here, maybe. But a kid or two that is good enough to make that kind of difference isn't going to a winless flight 1 team, they're looking to the top performers and big clubs, unless the parents haven't been around long.
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
I see a lot of talk about wins and flight 1. But ALWAYS FOCUS ON DEVELOPMENT...which usually boils down to quality of coach at youngers age. I've seen players club hop to join better teams to win more trophies at the expense of their development. Two or three years later they have a bunch of U10 medals and are complaining about how they can't get onto this or that team.
One more year to go with pay to play soccer, so my belief is that flight is more important than coach. I’ve seen, for every 10 average coach, 1 impressive coach. My DD has had mostly average coaches, with some truly awful ones—looking at you HS!! Are the good coaches really coaching flight 2s and 3s?! I don’t believe that. We’re overrating the coaching component.
Flight (or competition level) is the determinant. Because development is more about the players learning and competing against each other. And the better players eventually move up the ladder like a herd.
Example. Pick up basketball—where are you going to improve your game? would you choose the top court with the best athletes that you’re forced to defend? Or the one with the old out of shape dads throwing up airballs?
I remember all the invites to all the different soccer "church" families to join when my baby was 6 years old. It reminds me of my first day in college and my church days. All the frat tables and religious groups trying to get you to join their club the first week. Watch out for the cult leaders dressed in sheep's clothing but is a wolf.
Leader= Coach or Doc
Disciple= Player or in some cases, dad!
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
I agree flight is important. Definitely going to be more challenged at flight 1 v flight 2 which is part of development. But if you had to pick between flight 1 teams pick the one that has the better coach/development versus the team that tries to win at all costs.
That's the entire point...most don't unless you had a kid go through the system. It totally took me at least 2 years and a ton of work to know the ins and outs. And these are kids that are usually just starting out in club soccer. Because they are younger as well, parents might be looking at local rather than sticking them in the car for an hour in LA traffic and so they can get to bed at a decent hour.
Well the other thing that a bad coach can do is that unless your kid is a superstar and even flight 1 is beneath them (the type of kid that when ECNL opens up they have every team beating down their doors for a starting position and offering scholarships), a bad coach can make them hate the game. And I've seen plenty of really good players walk away from the sport because they just don't have the heart (and not necessarily just the talent) to face the grind it takes day in and day out to make it to the top.
You tend to also get some really really good coaches in flight 2 and 3 in the younger ages because the coaches are just starting out and the club doesn't assign them the top teams. They've just gone through their licenses so their information is up to date. They haven't had enough time to become jaded.
I agree with this sentiment. If you're sort of blindly picking a team for your kid (and unless you've known the coach for some time, it's blind because what you see at tryout might not be his usual behavior), might as well play vs the highest competition. If you know the coach and can vouch for his skill as a coach and character as a person, then I think it's wise to stick to him/her as I agree that great coaches are rare.
I've seen instances where a great coach (A license, many years of experience, great results in national competition at older ages) got "stuck" coaching a flight 3 younger team because the club couldn't hire someone else and they were desperate for a coach. So you got a great coach at the younger lower flight BUT the caveat here was that, obviously the team wasn't a priority for him so he missed a lot of games/practices to tend to his other more important teams.
I feel personally attacked by this statement.
Another thing people don't know about flight 1 team is their roster is pretty much full. Even if your player is "flight 1 caliber", that's not enough to get you added. You need to be better than the top 4 players on the team for the coach to make a change. That's how they ensure the team gets better every year.
Winning is the best medicine, yes and people are more likely to stay on a winning team even if the level and coaching isn't that good, but in my experience, the better kids end up leaving eventually anyway. My son was on an ECRL team that won almost every game, often by double digits and because ECNL doesn't have relegation / promotion, the team was stuck at RL and so eventually we and a number of the better players ended up leaving. Kids need to be challenged to improve.
This is my second year (actually longer but I discounted the lockdown) and this problem still confuses me. I have kids in flight 1 & 2.
Whether I move to a different club/team or not do not seem to matter, essentially every season is a new team.
I see some teams appear to be stable but my friends/families with soccer players tell me the same thing, every season feels like rebuilding a team.
Should I move clubs every year until I find this rare, stable team that stays together until U15 or older? or at least continue to find this "good" coach? Since the contract is at least 1 year, I am afraid I am running out of time unless I got lucky
One of the advice to go to "higher flight whenever in doubt" does not seem to work for me. When team loses 5-0, 8-0, arguably the GK and defenders at least got individual training but the striker most likely not even got a touch on the ball. No real passing game beyond defense clearance.
Whether I move to a different club/team or not do not seem to matter, essentially every season is a new team.
I see some teams appear to be stable but my friends/families with soccer players tell me the same thing, every season feels like rebuilding a team.
Should I move clubs every year until I find this rare, stable team that stays together until U15 or older? or at least continue to find this "good" coach? Since the contract is at least 1 year, I am afraid I am running out of time unless I got lucky
One of the advice to go to "higher flight whenever in doubt" does not seem to work for me. When team loses 5-0, 8-0, arguably the GK and defenders at least got individual training but the striker most likely not even got a touch on the ball. No real passing game beyond defense clearance.
One of the smartest dads I know had GK that was real good. He played GK in college and asked his dd the GK, "Do you want to win 7-0 all the time and have no shots on goals to even try and save or lose 4-0 and save 15 shots a game? She picked losing ((learning to get better)) over winning and now she is big time D1 and playing. Another top dd Gk won championship and championship and all that fun winning stuff but not many saves and is now sitting on the bench in college. I still don't interstand all this flight 1 and flight 2 and even flight 3.This is my second year (actually longer but I discounted the lockdown) and this problem still confuses me. I have kids in flight 1 & 2.
Whether I move to a different club/team or not do not seem to matter, essentially every season is a new team.
I see some teams appear to be stable but my friends/families with soccer players tell me the same thing, every season feels like rebuilding a team.
Should I move clubs every year until I find this rare, stable team that stays together until U15 or older? or at least continue to find this "good" coach? Since the contract is at least 1 year, I am afraid I am running out of time unless I got lucky
One of the advice to go to "higher flight whenever in doubt" does not seem to work for me. When team loses 5-0, 8-0, arguably the GK and defenders at least got individual training but the striker most likely not even got a touch on the ball. No real passing game beyond defense clearance.
This is my second year (actually longer but I discounted the lockdown) and this problem still confuses me. I have kids in flight 1 & 2.
Whether I move to a different club/team or not do not seem to matter, essentially every season is a new team.
I see some teams appear to be stable but my friends/families with soccer players tell me the same thing, every season feels like rebuilding a team.
Should I move clubs every year until I find this rare, stable team that stays together until U15 or older? or at least continue to find this "good" coach? Since the contract is at least 1 year, I am afraid I am running out of time unless I got lucky
One of the advice to go to "higher flight whenever in doubt" does not seem to work for me. When team loses 5-0, 8-0, arguably the GK and defenders at least got individual training but the striker most likely not even got a touch on the ball. No real passing game beyond defense clearance.
For GKS (and somewhat for defenders) the sweet spot is being on a team in the middle of a pack. Being on a very top team is bad because then you are not seeing the shots you need to get better....if you are older you also aren't building your highlight reel. Being on very low team is also bad because the GK is always the first one to get scape goated...until the boys are 15 and are beginning to grow fully into both their height and testosterone and the girls until senior year or college (if then), they can't realistically cover most of the goal and learn all the techniques necessary to be truly effective (particularly once the strikers stop shooting it directly at them) but the expectation is if it went in it must have been the GK's fault.
I think realistically in the current landscape, even for strikers, you are going to have to move a few times in a career given that there's just so much that can happen: teams turn over as players leave/start, coaches turn over as clubs move them around, the needs of the player changes as they get older and things shift from development to recruitment, and the team may or may not perform in any particular year. It's why pro/rel never really made a lot of sense to me in the current environment: it started as something to make sure the tiers are balanced but that's clearly not working because you still have x-0 blowouts...and as a reward system it also doesn't make sense because the team that earned the reward isn't necessarily the team that will play in it. If you are unlucky you will have to move several times. If you are lucky, you might get to sit at a place a few years.
Prior to the mega club consolidation, alpha leagues, name branding kids started out at local clubs and they sorted out the players into color groups teams like black, white, red (or whatever the club colors) where. This designation was for the pseudo A, B, C teams but it was subtle not to rub some the wrong way. Sometimes the White or B team would actually have better overall season results.
At the end of near the end of season those wanting to return would either be told they would have a spot on their existing team for the upcoming season or not. Those without assignments could go back to tryouts for revaluation or try other clubs. Normally this indicated current club is suggesting a drop down to next level.
Times have changed and there is a lot more turnover, movement, and it's much harder to keep teams together. Being able to play with friends, neighbors, classmates has some value as does chemistry between the players. Our players where always good friends with at least 2-3x players for them to even consider a team and by u17 or so they knew ever player very well. Even in college our player knew or played with several existing players before he signed up and two of his good friends went with.
Players change every year and so does the coaching and other things so a clean fresh slate would be nice but doesn't happen that much, more like a caste system, once you're label'd flight 2 & 3 moving up can be difficult unless you switch clubs.
Excellent takes Lafalafa. In other countries I notice that the academy is flight 1, flight 2, flight 3 and so on and not the players. If the academy is winning and doing things right, the academy team moves up to next level. Labeling soccer players by flight is stupid and just a way for some coaches to tell parent that if they do extra training then the guru can help kid go from flight 3 to flight 2 level player. This is so dumb and just wrong. This is a team sport and what US Soccer did with the age change back in 2016 was horrible and cause so much disruption and emotional pain. If anything, they should have started at u9 and lower and let all the other ages stay with old school calendar. ECNL told Pats no ECNL and most of the players and coaches went to Strikers. Then the Strikers would not obey the leaders and they got ECNL ripped away and then given to the Pats. Who was hurt by this emotionally? Yes, the girls. I can tell you 100% some of the top Docs told US Soccer not to do the age change or at least grandfather the kids at the early age and let the kids who have been on the same team for a few years finish out. Nope, you do as told or else!!!
Last edited:
Agree, I think it is better to look for different team (or coach if that is your problem) rather than trying to stay and hope things will change. My kids have been the ones staying put when 5-6 players left. If you move, better or worse, it is in your control. If you stay with the team, you leave it to chance to players' recruitment and/or coach rotation.
At the older age groups, for a GK, the sweet spot is the middle of the top tier. The competition matters for the types of situations you face and college coaches' assumptions about the quality of the shots and strikers you are facing. Defending a 1 v. 1 against a fast kick-and-run, but lower skill, forward is not the same as a 1 v. 1 striker who has the full range of tools in their toolkit, including the chip, cut back, far post curler, can use both feet etc. Same with facing a whipped in cross versus the long looping ball, a striker who attacks a header versus those who let the ball hit them, and a team that can pass the ball well and runs the channels, forcing the GK to cover more of the goal. It also helps with developing the ability to play out of pressure and the expectation that you can ping the ball to a teammate's foot in all parts of your half. But Grace is right that if you aren't facing many shots, that's not ideal either. You can still get recruited because you face a lot of shots in practice from great strikers and college coaches watch you in warmups and in ID camps to make sure you have the goods, but it's not as great for developing the experience to deal with a variety of situations.
One interesting phenomenon is that if you have a Flight 2 team that survives to High School years, it will be in demand after that. Partly, that's because the players start to recruit rather than the coaches/parents and the players all know kids from their HS teams who are looking for spots after HS season. Partly, it's because there are far fewer club teams by then because the less dedicated kids have quit and the more dedicated have moved to the elite teams. And it really doesn't matter if the team isn't very good. The thing about a Flight 2 HS-age team is the kids generally aren't doing it to make a college team or to get scouted by a higher team. They want to develop their skills and stay in shape to make their HS team, but their HS coach typically isn't watching and some don't play HS soccer or wouldn't even make their teams. If they are using it for anything, it's either for college admissions, because it's an activity they can list on their applications, or to satisfy their PE requirement for kids going to some schools where they allow that. And that doesn't mean they are being forced by their parents to do it to help them for college or to place out of PE to take more rigorous courses. Their parents don't come to practices or even every game anymore because the kids can drive. The kids are having fun, even if they are losing, and they are playing competitively for each other and to enjoy their last years of soccer. It's kind of pure that way, even if they fool around more in practice than coaches would like.
Another thing to note is that the coaches good or bad do not coach the same team forever.
Most coaches pass on their teams to someone else in 2-3 years, either because clubs like to rotate coaches or teams move onto different leagues and there are coaches designated to coach the teams coming up through the ranks (pre-ECNL, EA, etc) as kids get older.
So if you find a "good coach" in his or her 2nd or 3rd year, you might not get that coach even if you stay on the same team...
It's funny, my son has been at two different clubs where they say that this is the pattern, yet if the team is good, when it comes time to pass the team on, somehow it doesn't happen. This actually goes to the original question. If a team is improving, no one wants to leave, coach included. When they're stagnant or moving down, everyone wants out.
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
Fligjht is definitely more important. Recently my daughter played up a year at flight 2 and she went from being average on flight 1 to the best player on a flight 2 team even though it was 1 year older. The way socal allows teams to move up with no requirements, flight 2 is more like fligjt 3 at the older age groups.