Flight 1
- Thread starter Jamisfoes
- Start date
In my experience, no. League levels help, but on the boys side, except for LAFC and Galaxy, every team is vulnerable to having their best players recruited away (by LAFC or Galaxy, or MLS Next, or ECNL, or a better flight 1 team). Just because a team is considered good, doesn't mean people (read parents) aren't on the lookout for something (they think is) better.
What makes helps recruiting the most is the coach. Kids (and parents) will stay with a great coach at a lower level longer even than is good for them. (The really great coaches will encourage their better players to search for opportunities higher up if they think it'll help them develop.)
I am taking about youngers where flight 1 is the highest level.
I'd argue success is what creates buzz and roster stability, if it is at the highest level then even more so. Getting smoked at Flight 1 is likely to yield more roster turnover (to other flight 1 teams that are doing well) than doing well in Flight 2.
Doesn't pre-ECNL start at 9 now? Same with LAFC and Galaxy. Younger than that, the only thing that matters is the coach. In a few years most of the kids will quit soccer altogether, so focus on finding the best coach you can.
Yeah, some of the clubs are throwing that in the team names, but I don't think it means a whole lot. There are a couple of "Pre ECNL II" teams playing flight 3 in the younger age groups. Feels like an ECNL brand awareness exercise more than anything else.
My kid was on a flight 2 team his first year of playing club. It seems every season they lose a core player. The team is perpetually flight 2 because they are always 1-2 players from being a flight 1 team. We ended up leaving too.
I would argue doing well in flight 2 means nothing. The best players will leave for flight 1 teams.
Let's say you have a flight 1 team that gets smoked. The players aren't going to look for a flight 2 team to jump ship. And the fact they got smoked, maybe 1-3 players on the team can realistically move to another flight 1 team and keep the same playing time. A good flight 1 team is only going to take a player if you are significantly better than the starter they already have.
But if the coach decides they are moving to flight 2 next season since they got killed so badly. That's when people will jump ship because nobody wants to go backwards.
But if the coach decides they are moving to flight 2 next season since they got killed so badly. That's when people will jump ship because nobody wants to go backwards.
Depends on the situation, starting with the coach/club and ending with social dynamics between parents and players. If there are 1/2/a few kids who are head and shoulders above the rest that are carrying the team, then yes, it makes sense for those kids to leave and they most likely will unless there's a strong social bond and/or coach has a clear development path for the high performing player(s) and team that's been well articulated.
Even if that flight 1 team doesn't move down, parents will look to move their kids because getting smoked sucks and all the finger pointing at coach and other kids that starts in that situation erodes the fabric of the team. That being said, most of those parents who start looking for a flight 1 team to move to would probably be in for a rude awakening when offers from those flight 1 teams don't come because their kids aren't flight 1 talent (or the team would have fared better in league in the first place, unless it was a coaching issue).
In the situation being discussed, the team would have been better off playing in flight 2 to begin with. If they do well/win most of their games the message should be put out there by the coach/club that the intent is to move to Flight 1 the following year, which should help retain the better players and attract other players from competing teams looking to move up. Then it comes down to delivering on that.
Yup this happened with my kid's flight 3 team that he was with for 3 years to start. It was very developmentally focused: possession game, short on the goalkicks, passing game in the middle, discouraged long balls and footraces except when appropriate, coach really focused on developing all the players. One of the best coaches he ever had. But every year the best 1-2 players would leave because the team fell 1-2 positions short in Coast of getting the promotion. New players would be recruited. Some were good, but they'd have to be developed, and particularly if they were in key positions, the team had to start from scratch.
That's the benefits of having an MLS/ECNL/EA/GA/Elite 64 team...you'll get good players recruited from other teams because you have the name and don't have to build anything. Even if you get put on the worst MLS Next team, the player uses that experience to later on trade up for another team.
The issue is, as focomoso points out, the pre-MLS, pre-ECNL teams have gotten younger and younger, so except for the very youngest, flight 1 really isn't flight 1 anymore. As you get into middle school, on the boys side it's more like flight 5 (after MLS Academies, MLS/ECNL, EA/ECRL/Elite 64, NPL/EA2). The other issue is you've got a lot of teams placed not competitively as a result because the sorting isn't good: e.g., girls lack a true elite league so the competition across ECNL is very broad, you had some teams like Socal Elite in NPL last year that just tore up the competition and should be playing MLS Next but they have been locked out, you have some Strikers teams that could be playing the MLS Academy levels but the MLS Academies are blocking those teams off into separate leagues.
Yup but this causes a few problems. One, it's not really even a year....it's a matter of months from the release window to the first game of the season (the MLS/EA/E64/NPL windows are now very short...a matter of 4 months), where your full squad may not even be assembled because of people leaving, players being promoted/demoted/tried out and new people being recruited. Your roster may not be set in the older ages until a week before the season if you are unlucky. Not even the best coaches can do that.
Second, it does terrible things for development particularly among the clubs that need middle tier NPL/flight 1 teams in their rosters to give a full range of flight levels, particularly if there's pro/rel: things like the old boot the ball, get the big legged defender to kick the goalkick long into a 50/50 situation, pick the fastest kids early on to footrace the opposition, focus on shooting (particularly over the goalkeepers) with your time instead of passing and possession, prevent kids from advancing within the club to higher teams because the NPL or Premiere team needs to be kept competitive, recruit already developed players instead of developing the ones you got.
Flight 1 has an adv vs flight 2 or 3 because you'll attract those wanting to move up to flight 1. I've seen teams "advertise" as flight 1 during tryouts but end up playing flight 2 in the fall (and kids leaving right before the fall season because of it).
But even within flight 1, there's migration from bad flight 1 teams to mid tier flight 1 teams to a great one.
I would say the top flight 1 teams will still have some turnover because there will always be kids playing the least and parents move them where they can play more and/or play at a specific position.
A "bad flight 1" team might have just as much or even more turnover than a flight 2/3 team however because of parents believe, often incorrectly, that the reason why the team was so bad is the other kids on the team and their kid is clearly "flight 1 material" and must move on to better teams.
The same parents go to the tryout for the better team and find out their Johnny couldn't make the team. This is why I think even a bad flight 1 team has the advantage in keeping the core players.A "bad flight 1" team might have just as much or even more turnover than a flight 2/3 team however because of parents believe, often incorrectly, that the reason why the team was so bad is the other kids on the team and their kid is clearly "flight 1 material" and must move on to better teams.
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It has an advantage only if you're a competitive flight 1 team. It doesn't necessarily need to be a winning team, but the team needs to be competitive. For example, a 3-6-3 record for a first-year flight 1 team is completely reasonable. No one is lining up to join a winless flight 1 team that cannot compete at all. Trust me, people know the scores even though SoCal does not post scores for the youngest teams.
U11 and U13 are good years to look for options as rosters expand to 9v9 and 11v11 respectively.
I remember just a few years back that club soccer didn't even start up until U10. That's 1-2 years before you are shifting.
I agree that while a winless flight 1 team in the youngers would have trouble recruiting, Jamiesfoes is right at that age it usually just takes the ability to get a hold of 1 really good player (usually someone that can just outrun the others and hit the goal on target since the GKs can usually only block things shot directly at them at that age) and things can turn around quick. The other players at the same time are getting more experienced and then by U11 the higher level slots start opening up drawing the best players and teams.
I'd also note that at the oldest ages, for amongst the boys at least, there are a ton of boys lining up to play for MLS Academy and Next teams where they will sit on the bench and because of substitution limits will get very limited play time (in some cases, particularly the GKs, maybe none at all) and are willing to trade that just to be on the MLS Next Team, even though the team may be ranked last. The bigger limitation at those ages becomes that they cannot draw top talent because of their limited pools (smaller towns like Temecula, Oxnard, or Santa Barbara) or because they are in the shadow of another club or team that has captured an area.
The only thing constant in youth soccer is change, ever season is different. Players, coaches, management coming and going, names changing, etc.
For the ulitties depending on the area and club recruiting can start early, too early in some cases.
Our under 7 yr old niece and nephew play or practice futsal regularly and their parents have already been approached couple time at the indoor center.
Tryouts? Used to be important to get your foot in the door and to the highest level to get the better coach(s)
Besides the very first ones @ age ~ 7 I don't recall our players going through them in even during the big field transition. After U9 all the players where pretty much hand selected by coaching staffs ahead of time. New tryout players never made the 1st teams I recall. 2nd-3rd teams was basically the only path to get in
The old adage still rings true, coaching is the 1st and biggest priority when considering options, everything else takes a back seat. Getting a A, B or just a great young enthusiastic coach can make the world of difference.
Some coaches have to recruit to stay competitive unless the club does it for them or it's just a geographic or big name brand draw.
By the time tryouts roll around relying on some new magic players to randomly showing up is like playing the lotto, odds not in your favor.
For the ulitties depending on the area and club recruiting can start early, too early in some cases.
Our under 7 yr old niece and nephew play or practice futsal regularly and their parents have already been approached couple time at the indoor center.
Tryouts? Used to be important to get your foot in the door and to the highest level to get the better coach(s)
Besides the very first ones @ age ~ 7 I don't recall our players going through them in even during the big field transition. After U9 all the players where pretty much hand selected by coaching staffs ahead of time. New tryout players never made the 1st teams I recall. 2nd-3rd teams was basically the only path to get in
The old adage still rings true, coaching is the 1st and biggest priority when considering options, everything else takes a back seat. Getting a A, B or just a great young enthusiastic coach can make the world of difference.
Some coaches have to recruit to stay competitive unless the club does it for them or it's just a geographic or big name brand draw.
By the time tryouts roll around relying on some new magic players to randomly showing up is like playing the lotto, odds not in your favor.
Recruiting never ends. First time was during AYSO Extra tryouts. Coming off tryouts had club coaches giving her and I their card.
Every year there would be a few attempts. Has happened in a park, at a college soccer game we were watching, online. Saw a lot of it happen while my daughter was a sophomore and Junior in High School. You have players from different clubs who tell their head coach about your kid and then the coaches are watching High School games. Pretty crazy.
Every year there would be a few attempts. Has happened in a park, at a college soccer game we were watching, online. Saw a lot of it happen while my daughter was a sophomore and Junior in High School. You have players from different clubs who tell their head coach about your kid and then the coaches are watching High School games. Pretty crazy.