FIFA needs to stop "gaslighting" goalkeepers

JumboJack said:
In all my years on the internets I can’t remember a more one sided (like really just one person) argument.
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True, but arguing about goalkeepers is better than thinking about covid.

Maybe I should start a thread arguing for a 3 line rule to prevent kickball....
 
dad4 said:
True, but arguing about goalkeepers is better than thinking about covid.

Maybe I should start a thread arguing for a 3 line rule to prevent kickball....
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I'll see your 3 line rule and raise you using a futsal ball at younger ages to keep the ball on the ground with no throw-ins, goal kicks or corner kicks.
 
There's a twitter feed call "When Playing it out of the back goes wrong" - @wpiootbgw. Not all goalkeeper errors, but you'll get a good chuckle out of some of the mistakes pros make.
 
Michael Varn said:
I would like to make one final point:

Every modern goalkeeper on any level, if they had a choice, would elect to pick up the ball especially if they have to play the ball quickly in order to prevent a goal from being scored on them. No goalkeeper wants to deal with balls with their feet, or God forbid dribbling it. This would be their préférence in the present, or in any future era in this beautifull game. We had this option in the past. Perhaps présent and future goalkeepers should have this option as well. Now wether or not they realize it, that is exactly what they want!
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Rules are often changed in sports to better the overall game. But I don't recall rules ever get changed to compensate a particular player's shortcoming (especially a defensive player player).

I can't tell if you are actually serious about any of this. Perhaps you are Karius' therapist or president of some GK players' union.

My DD plays defender. One of the plays that impresses her most when we watch pro soccer is on a dangerous ball in, the fullback calmly or even nonchalantly heads it back to the GK so he can pick it up with his hands. She hasn't had the courage to try it in her own game though. :)
 
Personally, I'd rather have a keeper that can distribute effectively with their feet than one that can make spectacular diving saves. IMO keepers train way too much on diving, which should be the last option in a keepers toolbox. I'd rather have one that has the footwork to cutoff angles and square up on shots and not have to dive in most cases. I like the mentality that your keeper is your first attacker.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
Rules are often changed in sports to better the overall game. But I don't recall rules ever get changed to compensate a particular player's shortcoming (especially a defensive player player).

I can't tell if you are actually serious about any of this. Perhaps you are Karius' therapist or president of some GK players' union.

My DD plays defender. One of the plays that impresses her most when we watch pro soccer is on a dangerous ball in, the fullback calmly or even nonchalantly heads it back to the GK so he can pick it up with his hands. She hasn't had the courage to try it in her own game though. :)
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Ouch!
 
Michael Varn said:
I would like to make one final point:

Every modern goalkeeper on any level, if they had a choice, would elect to pick up the ball especially if they have to play the ball quickly in order to prevent a goal from being scored on them. No goalkeeper wants to deal with balls with their feet, or God forbid dribbling it. This would be their préférence in the
watfly said:
Personally, I'd rather have a keeper that can distribute effectively with their feet than one that can make spectacular diving saves. IMO keepers train way too much on diving, which should be the last option in a keepers toolbox. I'd rather have one that has the footwork to cutoff angles and square up on shots and not have to dive in most cases. I like the mentality that your keeper is your first attacker.
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Kpresent, or in any future era in this beautifull game. We had this option in the past. Perhaps présent and future goalkeepers should have this option as well. Now wether or not they realize it, that is exactly what they want!
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k
watfly said:
Personally, I'd rather have a keeper that can distribute effectively with their feet than one that can make spectacular diving saves. IMO keepers train way too much on diving, which should be the last option in a keepers toolbox. I'd rather have one that has the footwork to cutoff angles and square up on shots and not have to dive in most cases. I like the mentality that your keeper is your first attacker.
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Goalkeepers have to make spectacular diving saves if shots on goal are anywhere near either post. Now, positioning is a very important part of the game, and it does minimize all the acrobatic stuff.

But the différence between modern keepers, and keepers from my era has alot to do with diving. I respectfully disagree with you. Goalkeepers today are NOT spending enough time in training, and on their own time perfecting this art. Keepers from my era emphasized catching these balls, not just batting them à way.

You see, at least in the United States back in the 1980's if you wanted to be a goalkeeper, there was this iconic or ideal image of what a goalkeeper is suppose to look like. A prototype if you will. It is the depiction of a goalkeeper, real or stick figure, makeing a diving save, useing both hands, and catching the soccer ball. The books about goalkeeping at the time described this as the "classic" save with the head "in the window" technique.

This is what aspiring goalkeepers like myself wanted to immulate. And we spent alot of time at practice and countless hours on our own time working on this.

This skill is very important, because the goal is a whole lot wider than it is tall.
 
Michael Varn said:
k
Goalkeepers have to make spectacular diving saves if shots on goal are anywhere near either post. Now, positioning is a very important part of the game, and it does minimize all the acrobatic stuff.

But the différence between modern keepers, and keepers from my era has alot to do with diving. I respectfully disagree with you. Goalkeepers today are NOT spending enough time in training, and on their own time perfecting this art. Keepers from my era emphasized catching these balls, not just batting them à way.

You see, at least in the United States back in the 1980's if you wanted to be a goalkeeper, there was this iconic or ideal image of what a goalkeeper is suppose to look like. A prototype if you will. It is the depiction of a goalkeeper, real or stick figure, makeing a diving save, useing both hands, and catching the soccer ball. The books about goalkeeping at the time described this as the "classic" save with the head "in the window" technique.

This is what aspiring goalkeepers like myself wanted to immulate. And we spent alot of time at practice and countless hours on our own time working on this.

This skill is very important, because the goal is a whole lot wider than it is tall.
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I can appreciate your sentimental take on things and I do find it interesting how training has evolved from catch to parry. However, its been 30 years since the change was made which actually has increased the participation of keepers in the game of FOOTball instead of just being a backstop. Their role is much more proactive than it was 30+ years ago which I personally prefer.
 
Michael Varn said:
k
Goalkeepers have to make spectacular diving saves if shots on goal are anywhere near either post. Now, positioning is a very important part of the game, and it does minimize all the acrobatic stuff.

But the différence between modern keepers, and keepers from my era has alot to do with diving. I respectfully disagree with you. Goalkeepers today are NOT spending enough time in training, and on their own time perfecting this art. Keepers from my era emphasized catching these balls, not just batting them à way.

You see, at least in the United States back in the 1980's if you wanted to be a goalkeeper, there was this iconic or ideal image of what a goalkeeper is suppose to look like. A prototype if you will. It is the depiction of a goalkeeper, real or stick figure, makeing a diving save, useing both hands, and catching the soccer ball. The books about goalkeeping at the time described this as the "classic" save with the head "in the window" technique.

This is what aspiring goalkeepers like myself wanted to immulate. And we spent alot of time at practice and countless hours on our own time working on this.

This skill is very important, because the goal is a whole lot wider than it is tall.
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I don’t think the parry rather than catch phenomenon is because GKs aren’t practicing enough. It’s a deliberate tactical switch that occurred in the pros in Europe because of changes in the construction of the soccer ball (dimples on the ball, for instance) and the ability of players to strike it, which led to more unpredictable movement on the ball.

In the US, youth GKs are still taught to catch for the most part. Some are better at it naturally or because of more practice, and the improvement in the quality of gloves has helped. There’s one big (and big time) GK coach in the area who is a stickler on catching at young ages and chances are someone who catches the ball well trained with him at some point.

The reason some kids parry more than catch is often a reflection of the win mentality of US youth soccer and the pressure placed on GKs by parents (of non-GKs) and teammates. GKs don’t want’ to get blamed for a bad mistake like letting a ball slip through their hands into the goal, so they learn to push the ball instead. I’ve seen this even with kids with great hands in practice.
 
watfly said:
I can appreciate your sentimental take on things and I do find it interesting how training has evolved from catch to parry. However, its been 30 years since the change was made which actually has increased the participation of keepers in the game of FOOTball instead of just being a backstop. Their role is much more proactive than it was 30+ years ago which I personally prefer.
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Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Goalkeepers today are being forced to multi-task way to much in récent decades. This is more of a generational issue than a sports issue.

Now with catching the soccer ball, it is not just spectacular, but it does provide a tactical advantage. If you simply deflect a ball when you are fully extended, you will be out of position when you hit the ground if the ball ends up in bounds anywhere near the goal. You will feel powerless as you watch an easy tap in trickle over that goal line.
So how do you catch the ball anyway? It's moving to fast! The velocity on these new technologically advanced match balls make this impossible right?

Here is how to do it. Remember, its not your coaches time or your teams time when you have to work on this. Games and practices.

It is your time.

It takes a very long time to get your body to move quickly and seamlessly into certain positions through efficient movements.

This is something akin to "Wax on"! "Wax off"! Or "Wax left!" "Wax right!" These are repetitive motions moveing from left to right, or from side to side. Catching these balls in the air and along the ground.

And you have to keep doing these things over, and over and over again, Day after day after day. From when the sun comes up until the sun goes down. And if you are motivated, you can keep doing these things, as the moon is rising!
 
Michael Varn said:
FIFA needs to make a rule change. And if this rule changes, other governing bodies on every level of world football will follow suit.

This rule went into effect across the world after the World Cup final in 1990. Now if this rule changes, all goalkeepers can breath a sigh of relief!

For the last 30 years professional keepers as well as amateur and youth keepers have not been able to pick up the ball when it is played back to them. This has gone on long enough. Profesional goalkeepers over the years have looked like idiots giving up the most rediculous goals because of this. And it is probably worse on the amature and youth level.

There is a reason for this. Goalkeepers spend the lion's share of their time on the practice pitch useing their hands, not their feet. Now the other ten players on a team spend much more time dealing with balls that are rolling in their direction with their feet.

But when goalkeepers have to deal with this, they can look like 10 year olds when they miss the ball and end up on their backsides when they can only watch helplessly as the ball roles slowly into the net.

It's time to let goalkeepers be goalkeepers again!

Let them pick up the ball when it is right in front of them. That is what they are suppose to do. But FIFA will not let them do it. Now granted, if the ball is played back like 5 times in a row, that is a delay of game, and a penalty is warranted. But my suggestion is to let them pick it up once, especially if there is pressure.

Now if you don't agree or if you'r not sure about what Iam saying, İ would like to draw your attention to another World Cup final. Croatia vs France. 2018. Pay close attention to how Croatia scored their second goal. Roll tape!

Now if this goal was consequential, you would not be hearing about this from me now for the first time. The rule would have been changed immediately after the match.

But, if this all got started after W.C. 1990, W.C. 2018 should end it!

Now, my playing days as a goalkeeper were over before 1990, but if I had to deal with this, I would probably have had to play a different sport!

Now, if you are aware of some soccer leagues that let the goalkeepers operate the old way, please share this with me.
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I completely disagree. We don't need more stalling in the game... and I'm a former goalkeeper. There's no reason why half a dozen incompetent keepers looking bad makes this a bad rule change.
 
Michael Varn said:
I will end my participation in this discussion with one last parting thought. If you go on youtube, you will see a montage of the worst goals ever given up by goalkeepers in the modern era. Alot of these goals are are given up this way.
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David de Gea routinely gives up goals by letting a ball slip through his hands. Maybe we should eliminate the 2 handed catch, too.
 
The Outlaw said:
I completely disagree. We don't need more stalling in the game... and I'm a former goalkeeper. There's no reason why half a dozen incompetent keepers looking bad makes this a bad rule change.
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Because Hugo Lloris is not an incompetent goalkeeper. As a matter of fact, he lifted that Gold trophy for France in 2018.

However, It was clear that he spent alot more time in his training useing his hands, not his feet. This was clearly demonstrated when Croatia scored their second goal. Now everybody has probably forgotten this goal because it happened late, and by that time the result of the match was not in doubt.

Even though that goal was not consequential, it was embaraceing for Hugo Lloris. A top flight goalkeeper demonstrating the ball control skills of a ten year old!

You see, when things like this happen in a game like the World Cup Final, the rules change.

That's right, I know that FIFA has been deliberateing about the back pass rule. And when they make an official announcement about this, the goalkeeper will be able to pick up the back pass inside the 6 yard box only. Perhaps in the interest of fair play, the keeper should have this option if the ball is that close to the goal.

However, this rule is nearly 30 years old, and time wasteing is still a priority for FIFA. So the current rule outside the 6 yard box will still apply. Of course if FIFA changes the rule all othet governing bodies, like UEFA will follow.
 
Michael Varn said:
Because Hugo Lloris is not an incompetent goalkeeper. As a matter of fact, he lifted that Gold trophy for France in 2018.

However, It was clear that he spent alot more time in his training useing his hands, not his feet. This was clearly demonstrated when Croatia scored their second goal. Now everybody has probably forgotten this goal because it happened late, and by that time the result of the match was not in doubt.

Even though that goal was not consequential, it was embaraceing for Hugo Lloris. A top flight goalkeeper demonstrating the ball control skills of a ten year old!

You see, when things like this happen in a game like the World Cup Final, the rules change.

That's right, I know that FIFA has been deliberateing about the back pass rule. And when they make an official announcement about this, the goalkeeper will be able to pick up the back pass inside the 6 yard box only. Perhaps in the interest of fair play, the keeper should have this option if the ball is that close to the goal.

However, this rule is nearly 30 years old, and time wasteing is still a priority for FIFA. So the current rule outside the 6 yard box will still apply. Of course if FIFA changes the rule all othet governing bodies, like UEFA will follow.
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Hugo Lloris makes mistakes just like Manuel Neuer makes mistakes. I saw him make 2 shitty ones just a couple of weeks ago and he's widely considered the best in the world with his feet. Keepers make mistakes. The back pass rule was altered to prevent stalling and giving an unfair advantage to the defense. It's more fun to watch and it needs to remain. Now, if you want to make the change for 12-year olds, great. We're talking about the highest level of play. The opponents ability to high press is one of the best parts of this rule. The 6 should not be some force field zone if we're discussing anyone older than that, Michael.
 
dad4 said:
True, but arguing about goalkeepers is better than thinking about covid.

Maybe I should start a thread arguing for a 3 line rule to prevent kickball....
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Ony if on the attacking end, shots from outside the 3rd line can be considered 3 pointers. Come from behind victories, wild shots, high flying goalkeepers, higher scores. Might even fix the American TV problem. Picture it: "Ronaldo for 3!!!."

Nah.
 
Not any real relevance, but just a story. The boys played in Sweden's Gothia Cup a few years ago. In their age group it was 7v7 with the keeper allowed to handle the ball with their hands on passbacks. It was counter-intuitive for our kids and took them awhile to adjust. Completely changes the game. They never completely adjusted to the overtly physical play of the Europeans (almost to the level of no blood, no foul). Parents would lose their minds if that kind of play was allowed in SoCal...I almost did.

Anyway, if you ever have the chance to do the Gothia Cup, do it. It makes Surf Cup look like a backyard scrimmage.
 
Grace T. said:
Ony if on the attacking end, shots from outside the 3rd line can be considered 3 pointers. Come from behind victories, wild shots, high flying goalkeepers, higher scores. Might even fix the American TV problem. Picture it: "Ronaldo for 3!!!."

Nah.
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I rather like the kickball as an element of strategy. We know kickball will eventually lose a game at higher levels but who didn't love Lloyd's 50 yard bomb over a flailing keeper's head? Or Ibra's bomb in his debut at Galaxy?

If you want to give "Ronaldo from 3"... I'm game... if flops can result in a 1 point deduction.
 
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