oh canada
GOLD
after reading "Warrior Girls", I lost some respect for AD
ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'
- Thread starter VegasParent
- Start date
after reading "Warrior Girls", I lost some respect for AD
We do have to be a little careful about drawing conclusions about the implementation of DA by the first two years. Just changing league badges doesn't automatically mean things fall into place right away and can be used as a predictor for how things will be the future. IIRC, the boy's DA program was considered dead two years in and they didn't have even have an ECNL equivalent. Mustang girls didn't have huge college placement success the years right prior to 01/02 (yes those two years are really, really strong) and the Quakes weren't even on the map yet as Deza had to drag his best players with him from Griffins to Force and then again to Earthquakes in order to create his 02-04 power groupings (which are extremely impressive). Prior to 01/02 I believe Force, Lamorinda and MVLA had significantly more recruiting success (all with YNT field player placements, Gothia success, Surf Cup Super Black titles, #1 state/national rankings, elite college placements). These things go in cycles (I know the younger Mustang teams are good as well but they are not on the level of the 01s/02s at this point. The Quakes have extremely strong younger teams and the infrastructure and developmental vision to maintain this as long as Deza is given power) so it will be a bit of a wait and see as to what will happen as things do eventually fall into place.
While I do hear you that at this very specific point in time it doesn't make much of a difference which league a player is in for college purposes and it is great that the ECNL kids get to choose, that could change as things evolve - especially if non-DA players are edged off YNTs and maybe even pushed away from NTC opportunities in the near future (geographic limitations not withstanding, US Soccer could just say "hey we think you have potential but you need to go join a DA team for us to take this any further"). In theory, DA will produce better players if they have similar talent as those players are getting 2-3 months more of development per year for four years. Maybe this doesn't effect the very best but what about those who aren't? How will college coaches view this developmental difference? I have honestly have no idea. There are still some non-DA boys getting offers and there are fewer of those scholarships to go around. Honestly the biggest losers in this 'feud' to me is that NPL kids aren't going to get much of a chance at all. College coaches just don't have the bandwidth to go see those kids play and they won't know what they are watching when they see it. It used to be the plenty of NPL kids were given college spots but now those showcases (and teams) are just going to be overlooked as the college coaches go straight for the ECNL/DA brackets.
dk_b
GOLD
This is why it would be so much better to discuss these topics over beverages ... @offtopic - I completely agree with the cyclical nature of all of this. I used those two clubs simply because they are the initial grouping of GDA v ECNL (and those Quakes teams were ECNL DeAnza Force the season prior). But your depth is something I can get behind and I wish we could knock it around over a beer or coffee or some other cool beverage.
dk_b
GOLD
I forgot to add, @offtopic , that your comment re NPL is important. My other kids will prob remain NPL for various reasons. It means a much more challenging road if they want to get “seen”. I can think of a couple of notables from the Bay Area - including the daughter of a commenter on this board - who are D1 contributors and played NPL. If my other kids are good enough, they will try to follow their paths.
Again, that statement is really dumb by US Soccer. The DA is not a program and nor is ECNL. They are leagues and the clubs themselves have the programs that they run based on their own philosophies. US Soccer may come in and have demands about some of the curriculum, but make no mistake...The clubs will do what the clubs want/need in order to keep things afloat and attractive to would be players.
The DA is theoretically different because they can have more direct control of players on the YNT radar. For example, if US Soccer wants a kid to transition to CB from outside back they can dictate that to the club.
vegasguy
GOLD
They can dictate it but implementing it week in and week out may not be followed as their is not oversight at every training and every match.
Also, it is a league and many coaches are still more about the win than the development. Otherwise you would not see game reports where a player did not get a single minute of play in 4 games in the National Playoffs.
Also, it is a league and many coaches are still more about the win than the development. Otherwise you would not see game reports where a player did not get a single minute of play in 4 games in the National Playoffs.
vegasguy
GOLD
the boy's DA program was considered dead two years in and they didn't have even have an ECNL equivalent.
Now this is just a boys rumor but it has been noted that many of the MLS clubs are growing tired of playing and traveling to non-MLS teams and want to pull from DA and work with the USL in emerging league on a more regional basis. Especially at the u16/17 !,# u18/19 age groups. If that occurs boys DA is again just a league. Still rumor but it is there.
I have also heard coaches from major college cup contenders say that they look outside the DA many times because their system does not fit the DA philosophy for certain positions or tactical shapes and they are finding that some players are set in roles and styles (4 4 2) and aren't as flexible in other formation. DA does not guarantee D1 but it will get you observed by them.
If DA is only in place for YNT opportunities they should limit their team pool and fund it fully. That is investment. Not adding more and watering it down for money.
Now this is just a boys rumor but it has been noted that many of the MLS clubs are growing tired of playing and traveling to non-MLS teams and want to pull from DA and work with the USL in emerging league on a more regional basis. Especially at the u16/17 !,# u18/19 age groups. If that occurs boys DA is again just a league. Still rumor but it is there.
I have also heard coaches from major college cup contenders say that they look outside the DA many times because their system does not fit the DA philosophy for certain positions or tactical shapes and they are finding that some players are set in roles and styles (4 4 2) and aren't as flexible in other formation. DA does not guarantee D1 but it will get you observed by them.
If DA is only in place for YNT opportunities they should limit their team pool and fund it fully. That is investment. Not adding more and watering it down for money.
Most minor league baseball teams are controlled by MLB teams, so the big boys can dictate how a player will be positioned (playing time to convert an outfielder to first baseman, for example) and how often he will play (that applies to pitchers mostly). I hadn't heard that there is a similar rigid control from USSF to the individual DA teams, but it is certainly a rational way to run things.
This actually is a demonstration of the positive evolution of the game here. Pro clubs should have more control of their player development and MLS should be in the business of developing their own minor league system. One of the purposes of DA was to have as many of the players under one roof as it were for scouting and tracking purposes and that can still be accomplished with a MLS system as well as a DA.
For younger ages DA still makes sense for MLS clubs to participate in if only to limit the travel but as the kids hit U16/17 then more MLS control the better.
Agree. Your point is simply a missed opportunity by US Soccer. Week to week is what they should be striving for. In fact the regional NTC's should be run more like ODP is, once a week. A regions best players should be training together if not once a week at least once every two weeks.
Who is going to pay for all that travel?
I guess that depends on what you mean by "regional".
Currently there are at least 14 professional women's soccer leagues in Europe, six of which participate in UEFA.
The Spanish Women's Liga alone has 16 clubs. For the interest of time lets just say that the other leagues have 10 teams. That is at least 106 professional women's teams in Europe of which at least 66 teams are competing for UEFA bragging rights.
The US has over 300 D1 soccer programs alone. That is huge and we haven't even touched upon D2 and D3 programs. But of those 300 programs only 64 will qualify for the NCAA playoffs. Of those 64 that qualify for the playoffs there are really only ten schools that have a legitimate shot at winning. So roughly 25 D1 programs are not only both really really good, but really consistent over time as well. While we have huge collegiate system most of our USWNT players are coming out of only about 25 regular consistent programs.
D1 soccer is a fall sport while Spain's liga-femenina-iberdrola is a 10 month, 32 game season which can include Champions League and other UEFA tourneys. Assuming growth in the youth game in Europe, I just don't see how our top 25 college programs over the next 10-20 years will be able to keep up with Spain alone not to mention France, UK and other nations. In time one or two of the European leagues will also rise to prominence and concentrating the talent even more while smaller national leagues will become stepping stone leagues just like the men's side.
And do we honestly believe that in 10-20 years youth clubs like PDA will out produce La Masia not to mention the Spanish clubs that are trying to develop kids to get into La Masia?
I was referring to the more "local" NTC's. Not the larger regional ones.
What is the point of claiming to be an "Academy" if you don't actually have a pool of players regularly training together?
Many clubs are still using the term "academy" to refer to certain teams, camps, or training programs just like they were before the USSF DA program was created over 1o years ago.
Oh, absolutely agree that it is a nice buzzy and marketable term. But in this case if US Soccer wants to claim that it is in fact a program and not just a league they need to implement "Academy" as much as they really can. And one of the ways they can is to have more local NTC's on a regular basis where a metro regions best 25 kids or so for each age group train together regularly.
Currently the NTC's are mostly used just for basic deeper scouting purposes but they could be so much more.
vegasguy
GOLD
US Soccer would advise the clubs to be a true academy moving players up and down within their individual for development instead of straight out recruiting which is what a number clubs (not just DA but ...) do. With that said loyalty would need be given by the parent as well and we know that many parents are well intended but club hop like the Easter Bunny.
MakeAPlay
DA
I am not arguing with your numbers, they are in the wheelhouse. And I agree that most WNT players come from a small number of college programs. You also have to realize that those leagues also are top heavy and don't nearly have the quality of teams top to bottom that are near the top of D1. Maybe with more money they will get better but as has already been proven on the men's side of UEFA, the top teams have many players from Africa, South America and beyond and aren't simply composed of homegrown talent.
I love the debate and look forward to your reply.