ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

[dk_b]

The waiver issue has been a point of criticism since DA was founded, and especially since they started enforcing the no-HS rule for boys a couple of years after that. Most of those private schools already have an "elite" reputation to uphold. The DA waiver is consistent with that.

Indeed - well-stated.

 

[Ellejustus]

Don't be like that. Tell us why.

It's just my opinion based on my experience. As we all know in the OC, before the DA, ECNL was the top league in OC. The only girls that didn't play HS Soccer were the very very best players who were told not to play from certain clubs. Blues fully supported both. It was a choice. You could also choose to rest or do something else. As I set here at freshman orientation at the Fowler college of business at SDSU (my son is smart) it came to me. The DA is sexy. OC likes to be on the cutting edge. DA sells the ultimate contest: Making the YNT. US scouts are watching they say..... (Disclaimer: many of these "scouts" had ODP shirts on the day before.....lol). The coaches and the parents are the only ones I have heard from that says, "high school soccer sucks." Coaches say it because they dont want you to get hurt and parents say it because the coaches say it. There you go

 

[MakeAPlay]

Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
55 play for DA
37 play for ECNL
10 play for neither/other

Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
DA 45%
ECNL 32%
Neither/other 10%

This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.

The top colleges also recruit top international talent so you have to remember that. On my player's college team (a top 5 program) there are several Canadians, a couple of Aussies, a Japanese player and an English player not to mention that almost everyone else has various years of YNT experience. My point is that the top coaches aren't recruiting teams or leagues. They are picking players that will make an impact for their program and to be quite honest they trust their eyes more than anything else.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Keep checking, I agree it will indeed be interesting, but nothing more.

I did not mention league for a reason -- I said getting a measure of the team and the coach (and a player's effort as well). I have yet to find a top college coach that emphasized league in our conversations.

Before I write something I should look for your post because you probably already said it in a much more eloquent and less confrontational manner.

You are a scholar and a gentleman...

 

[oh canada]

But you're paying more for less AND paying for anything extra on top of it.

What is so long term focus about 1/3 of the season spent away from the club coach and the higher level club players and training for HS?

mental health of the player, injury risk reduction (if playing a different sport or none during winter), the chance to add a different non-soccer skill to your child's toolbox, maybe she gets a higher grade in a class or two and raises her gpa, bonding with HS classmates/teammates, playing with girls 2-3 years older then 2-3 years younger...etc...

 

[MakeAPlay]

Who said I want ECNL to go away? There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it. Most girls who play DA don’t care. It’s the parents who have some sort of myopic nostalgia for it.

For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL. It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL. If you’re in SoCal you have great options.

ECNL is a fine program for girls. We have a lot of friends playing ECNL. My kid played ECNL. ECNL kids get into college. If my kid was hell bent on playing HS, they’d stick with ECNL. I don’t want to see it go away.

But I don’t see the need to change DA. It is what it is for people who want that program. Kids accept no HS and 4 practices a week.

I’d guess that a majority of the kids in DA don’t care about HS soccer and the the ECNL kids don’t really care about not playing DA.

You’ve essentially got the AL vs NL. One has DH (HS) and one doesn’t. Otherwise it’s 90 min games on the same size fields with coaches attending both of their bigger events.

Agreed. However, college soccer is more like high school than DA (up to 5 year age differences on the same team, cliques, homework, training during the season 3 days a week. DA should only have about 24-40 kids playing in all of SoCal in any age group. Instead they have 250+ allegedly elite players. It is hilarious.

 

[MakeAPlay]

I agree with much of what you are saying. Except, much of what is reported on this forum is personal opinion and anecdotal experiences. The only way to know for sure that kids in DA don't care about high school would be to do an actual survey. The same for ECNL kids not caring about playing DA. I think the decisions are more complex than this and I do see players feeling pressured and manipulated. I wouldn't say that across the board everyone is happy with the current status and would venture to say that most would prefer one league where the best could play against the best rather than the tired debate of ECNL vs DA.

We used to have that when my player first started playing club. It was call Coast Soccer Premier League. Too bad they didn't allow Surf in. Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) is the reason that the landscape is so fractured in SoCal.

 

[espola]

We used to have that when my player first started playing club. It was call Coast Soccer Premier League. Too bad they didn't allow Surf in. Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) is the reason that the landscape is so fractured in SoCal.

Surf was in CSL for a while, but then had an argument with GS about team placements in Premier Division. After they helped form SCDSL, they abandoned Presidio League with enough nasty words on their way out that PL wouldn't let their teams back in for a while.

 

[MakeAPlay]

It's just my opinion based on my experience. As we all know in the OC, before the DA, ECNL was the top league in OC. The only girls that didn't play HS Soccer were the very very best players who were told not to play from certain clubs. Blues fully supported both. It was a choice. You could also choose to rest or do something else. As I set here at freshman orientation at the Fowler college of business at SDSU (my son is smart) it came to me. The DA is sexy. OC likes to be on the cutting edge. DA sells the ultimate contest: Making the YNT. US scouts are watching they say..... (Disclaimer: many of these "scouts" had ODP shirts on the day before.....lol). The coaches and the parents are the only ones I have heard from that says, "high school soccer sucks." Coaches say it because they dont want you to get hurt and parents say it because the coaches say it. There you go

I tried to make my player skip high school and she did for the first month of her Junior year and hated it. She was the team manager and her friends on the team spent the first month of the season grinding her to help their school win. It matters to them even if the soccer sucks.

Look at it this way. On average in OC each school has about 2 really high level soccer players (of course the Private schools and Aliso Niguel have more). Getting a varsity letter as a freshman, being team MVP as a freshman, those things bring social benefits which matter a TON to these kids. The time goes fast. My kid was the only freshman on Varsity and she was the only player on her team that was on the first team all-League team.

Ask your player if they could play and it wouldn't affect their standing with their club team and you might be surprised at what you hear.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Surf was in CSL for a while, but then had an argument with GS about team placements in Premier Division. After they helped form SCDSL, they abandoned Presidio League with enough nasty words on their way out that PL wouldn't let their teams back in for a while.

I remember. I live in San Diego county and my daughter played for Surf.

 

[MakeAPlay]

But you're paying more for less AND paying for anything extra on top of it.

What is so long term focus about 1/3 of the season spent away from the club coach and the higher level club players and training for HS?

Prove that you are paying more. Traveling soccer of any kind is expensive! It never hurt my player and she only had two other players that played in the top league.

 

[MakeAPlay]

How does a 4 month season develop any player into a killer senior?

And how does being a killer senior in the spring season help with recruiting?

If a player doesn't come in ready to play in college, then they might never get on the field. My player played high school and has started every game of her career since she stepped on her college campus and has played 6000 minutes her first three seasons.

It definitely helped her.

 

[timmyh]

We used to have that when my player first started playing club. It was call Coast Soccer Premier League. Too bad they didn't allow Surf in. Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) is the reason that the landscape is so fractured in SoCal.

We used to have it in Texas, too (Lake Highlands Classic League). I don't know a single person who thinks the current league framework is better now than it was a decade ago.

Fwiw, I do think some things are better, though. Generally speaking, the training my youngest gets is better than the training my oldest got at the same age. Best practices for effective training sessions seem to have spread and a strong trend toward attempting to build possession-based systems are much more prevalent.

 

[MakeAPlay]

We used to have it in Texas, too (Lake Highlands Classic League). I don't know a single person who thinks the current league framework is better now than it was a decade ago.

Fwiw, I do think some things are better, though. Generally speaking, the training my youngest gets is better than the training my oldest got at the same age a decade ago. Best practices for effective training sessions seem to have spread and a strong trend toward attempting to build possession-based systems has flourished in the past 5 years.

I remember. The Dallas Texans, Sting, FC Dallas, D'Feeters. They used to come to Surf Cup and I would chat up the parents and yes the only League that was equivalent to the old CSL was the LHCL.

 

[Soccerfan2]

The top colleges also recruit top international talent so you have to remember that. On my player's college team (a top 5 program) there are several Canadians, a couple of Aussies, a Japanese player and an English player not to mention that almost everyone else has various years of YNT experience. My point is that the top coaches aren't recruiting teams or leagues. They are picking players that will make an impact for their program and to be quite honest they trust their eyes more than anything else.

I agree with everything you said. I counted the internationals (in this case there’s only one so far because it’s early) in the neither/other category. Your daughter’s school has 7 2022’s committed and all 7 are coming from DA

 

[MakeAPlay]

I agree with everything you said. I counted the internationals (in this case there’s only one so far because it’s early) in the neither/other category. Your daughter’s school has 7 2022’s committed and all 7 are coming from DA

I hear you, however, most of those players play for Andres Deza who used to coach the DeAnza Force ECNL team (his daughter Luca who starts for Cal and Tierna Davidson played for him). They are possession players which is what my daughter's team recruits. Coaches recruit players not teams. My kid's team never finished higher than 4th place and her last two years they didn't qualify for the ECNL Champions League yet she has started every game in college and played about 6000 minutes the last 3 years.

 

[Soccerfan2]

I hear you, however, most of those players play for Andres Deza who used to coach the DeAnza Force ECNL team (his daughter Luca who starts for Cal and Tierna Davidson played for him). They are possession players which is what my daughter's team recruits. Coaches recruit players not teams. My kid's team never finished higher than 4th place and her last two years they didn't qualify for the ECNL Champions League yet she has started every game in college and played about 6000 minutes the last 3 years.

I agree with all that too. I never argued differently on any of your points, except as I’ve said before I believe the landscape has changed somewhat over the past 2 years. They and Deza “used to” being part of the evidence. Anyway, like everyone else I’d like all the top kids to play each other. We’ve had a few local ECNL v DA friendlies recently in our area which has been nice.

 

[dk_b]

I hear you, however, most of those players play for Andres Deza who used to coach the DeAnza Force ECNL team (his daughter Luca who starts for Cal and Tierna Davidson played for him). They are possession players which is what my daughter's team recruits. Coaches recruit players not teams. My kid's team never finished higher than 4th place and her last two years they didn't qualify for the ECNL Champions League yet she has started every game in college and played about 6000 minutes the last 3 years.

Interestingly it was his 01 quakes team that I was mentioning before (who had kids give up their spring DA so they could play HS). I think highly of him as a coach - my player has trained with him and has played against his teams many times since she was quite small. There is no coach up our way who commits to teaching possession without regard to results like he does. And even as his current players know that from a soccer standpoint, sticking with him would make them the most “ready” for their next chapters, they opted to play HS and forgo DA for spring.

(As a related aside: I’d have never seen @SpeedK1llz player, or met him, if it hadn’t been for HS soccer and the fact that neither of our kids was prohibited from playing. It was through the NorCal version of this board that we connected and then we met at a non-league game in my player’s freshman and his player’s senior year. Of course I’ve been a fan of his girl ever since.)

 

[Surf Zombie]

So Cal Blues just won the U16 ECNL playoffs.

 

[Swoosh]

So Cal Blues just won the U16 ECNL playoffs.

Blues with two championships (U19 and U16). Slammers - PDA U17 final and U14 final.

ECNL is Northwest and SoCal.
DA is Texas and SoCal.

If SoCal would just realize that they can be their own federation, we would never have to go anywhere.

 

[Surf Zombie]

PDA won U13 and has teams playing in U14, U15 & U17 finals today. Incredible run.

MY DD's team crosses paths with PDA's 2007 team every year and they are always one of the toughest teams we see.