The rumor about De Anza and Tampa is that ecnl didn’t want second teams participating in ecnl only first teams. Don’t know if true or not but if true that means this isn’t an example of relegation…just plain old league turf wars.
ECNL. The C stands for Cartel
- Thread starter NorCalUSN
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I don't even think they are doing this. My experience, my perception is they are following the stories for the big prospects. My experience was my daughter didn't get any attention until her name popped up on a selection list and then coaches were showing interest. I lean toward the lazy they are using these showcases and selection games, ID2, etc to do the work for them and then they come in "Wow you are a great player I've been watching you" ignoring the creepyness of a grown man saying this, I just don't put a lot of faith in their scouting acumen
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
I think you'll find this to be very different if you are talking about U13 or U19. In this area being discussed at least, the one De Anza plays in, for U13, the brackets are almost identical from Gold all the way through Premier, NPL, ECNL and then MLS Next. It's pretty silly when you look at the numbers. All kids (and parents) are still trying to sort out what's what, and a top team in any of the brackets would be a top team in any of the brackets. A bottom team in any of the brackets would be the same in any of the brackets. We can quibble about what mid-table means in practice, but the bigger picture is that the range from top to bottom in all brackets is much larger than the difference between any of the brackets/leagues. By U15 there is significant separation, and by U17, MLS Next is miles ahead of ECNL, which is for the most part ahead of NPL. Anyone arguing that ECNL is more competitive, has better resourced clubs, or is superior in any way than MLS Next in this area has a solid point when they are talking about U13, and is completely and totally wrong when they are talking about U15+.
It also varies region to region. In Washington for example the only mls next teams in the area are Seattle and Vancouver both of which are mls academy teams so ecnl are top dog. In SoCal, I think there are only 10 ecnl clubs currently on the boys side so there isn’t a lot of dilution and some like real SoCal draw from regions that have no mls next coverage or like breakers which even with the addition of lasc on the next side is still under covered. In Texas some stronger clubs have walked out of mls next to ecnl to be replaced by some clubs out of no where to fill the gap. In Florida mls next is dominant because of the presence of the academies, img and Tampa.
Most sports are pay to play…think soccer is bad…golf, tennis, gymnastics, etc. It is the youth sports model in the US. Not saying it is right, just saying it is what it is. ECNL does a great job with events getting the coaches out there for Showcases. My DD’s Club has had a few local coaches at club ECNL league games in CA, but the big ECNL showcases, playoffs, and Surf Events draw the largest amount of coaches. GA is second. For the 2025 Commits so far almost 75% are coming from ECNL, almost 25% coming from GA, and rest from other leagues and international. The coaches have spoken on where they are looking. Like it or not, that’s the reality. Coaches do look at the emails and show up to games to watch kids interested in the school, and they look at good teams and identify players. I have heard from coaches we know, that kids that want to go to their school, they watch and evaluate. You are not going to be found like a needle in a hay stack. Emails, film, camps…rinse and repeat.
It’s a condition not an illness, you can treat and over come an illness, a condition you have to manage and deal with. ECNL has the best platform, and access is predicated by being on a member club. Just gonna have to accept that condition and deal with it whether you like it or not.
Every IG Sweatshirt Pic has a different story…no money, academic only, some athletic, full athletic, full w/academic + athletic, graduated scales of money. We know families with all of these. As long as the kid is where they want to be, finances work for the family, and everyone is happy it is all good. As expensive as all the tournaments, camps, travel, etc. was/is…I look at it as entertainment…spending time with my kid, making friend with parents on the team and other teams, watching the kids play, grow, develop, mature…its been a fun ride, and will miss it a bit when it is over.
It’s a condition not an illness, you can treat and over come an illness, a condition you have to manage and deal with. ECNL has the best platform, and access is predicated by being on a member club. Just gonna have to accept that condition and deal with it whether you like it or not.
Every IG Sweatshirt Pic has a different story…no money, academic only, some athletic, full athletic, full w/academic + athletic, graduated scales of money. We know families with all of these. As long as the kid is where they want to be, finances work for the family, and everyone is happy it is all good. As expensive as all the tournaments, camps, travel, etc. was/is…I look at it as entertainment…spending time with my kid, making friend with parents on the team and other teams, watching the kids play, grow, develop, mature…its been a fun ride, and will miss it a bit when it is over.
I totally disagree with "and by U17, MLS Next is miles ahead of ECNL". You might have a few teams in MLS Next at that age group that would dominate ECNL teams, but the rest of those MLS Next teams are on par with the top ECNL teams. Just look at the U17 Northwest division, not a lot of power houses in there. Yeah, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Personally I think MLS Next in the Bay Area is always going to struggle. There's just too much cannon fodder and not enough high quality teams/clubs. I get why it exists as the Quakes need to have local matches. SoCal probably has a bit more parity just given their population size.
Love this. It was pure entertainment for me until the recruiting started.
I should clarify, if you're talking about the West Division, which is effectively just the Academy teams on the west coast, then yeah that division is better than any NorCal ECNL table by a long mile -- but we're talking the Bay Area...so I'm assuming we're focused on the Northwest Division, which, again, isn't loaded with power houses. Some of those are incredibly small clubs. I suspect many of these clubs would much rather be in ECNL vs MLS Next.
Choosing to not play against pro MLS Acadamies doesn't make sense. If you're a competitive soccer club you want to play against the best.
However for boys I can see a couple of situations where you'd choose ECNL (or whatever league over MLSN). The first would be if there's no MLSN teams that are local to play + there's several ECNL teams. It just wouldn't make sense to fly out for every game when there's local high level clubs to play. The other reason would be ECNL "tieing" girls ECNL access to participating in boys ECNL. (Which is illegal but happens)
I don't think I'm suggesting to not play against the Academies. The Academies are in a conundrum -- as the teams get older, it's tougher to find good local competition (ergo the West Division). They have to travel a ton to get good matches. I don't envy them.
I do think there's an opportunity for MLS to work with ECNL, as I think the ECNL model, the way NorCal is managing it, will probably be the future in the Bay Area.
I don't see any actual reason why MLS Acadamies couldn't play ECNL teams in a some kind of super league other than people in power don't want to do it.
It would be challenging keeping all the player paperwork straight + keeping different leagues in alignment. Which is likely what it's not happening.
You also have to keep in mind that maybe ECNL clubs don't want to play MLSN teams. This would be because MLSN teams would immediately try to recruit ECNL players that played well against MLSN teams.
For giggles, here's the rankings of the MLS Next Northwest Division and the ECLN NorCal Division:
While I don't think rankings are the end-all-be-all -- this data does suggest there's not a massive separation from these divisions. Sac Republic is probably the only anomaly here -- it's weird they haven't played any MLS Next games yet (perhaps they haven't been reported). The top half of the ECNL side would compete just fine with those MLS Next teams based on this info.
While I don't think rankings are the end-all-be-all -- this data does suggest there's not a massive separation from these divisions. Sac Republic is probably the only anomaly here -- it's weird they haven't played any MLS Next games yet (perhaps they haven't been reported). The top half of the ECNL side would compete just fine with those MLS Next teams based on this info.
I don't think there's any real truth to that last statement. I've been hearing more and more about players leaving MLS Next teams so they can play high school soccer. Recently heard some MLS Next teams are giving permission to players to play in HS as they don't want to lose those players. I think ECNL coaches really only fear the Academies (which would be a good thing for their players) and perhaps clubs like De Anza. I don't think the others carry that much weight -- at least here in NorCal.
And Actually, I think ECNL coaches are more worried about losing players to other ECNL teams vs MLS Next.
Maybe, maybe not. I just posted some hypotheticals.
The problem with a true Academy is that you need a large pool of players that's constantly refreshed with potential talent. In pay to play teams are created around players that are able to fund playing. It's hard to mix to two in a single geography because they have different outcomes and ideals.
Not sure I'm following you on this train of thought.
For what it's worth, all of the major clubs have some form of financial aid that greatly reduces fees for players that couldn't afford it otherwise.
I think most of the clubs would super happy if a player was recruited by the Quakes, for example. That club would now be part of that player's story if they take their game to even greater heights. Someone had to develop that player.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
I think that's fair. Top boys clubs in CA are stacked with MLS clubs (6 of top 10, including the top 5). Only some of them are in NorCal, and the weaker ones in NorCal aren't particularly good teams, as compared to equivalent teams in ECNL, NPL, or EA.
Your comment about clubs being happy when players are recruited by the Quakes is spot-on, one of the reasons that the Quakes are top 10 nationally (in all but two ages, top 15 in the remaining 2), is that the top talent from the area finds its way there eventually. It is (and should be) hard to compete with training from an actual MLS club, along with zero fees for anyone accepted to the team.
Your comment about clubs being happy when players are recruited by the Quakes is spot-on, one of the reasons that the Quakes are top 10 nationally (in all but two ages, top 15 in the remaining 2), is that the top talent from the area finds its way there eventually. It is (and should be) hard to compete with training from an actual MLS club, along with zero fees for anyone accepted to the team.
Yours in futbol
SILVER
What ECNL Boys pro/rel model are you talking about?
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
He's referencing the ECNL-RL boys promotion/relegation that is in place for NorCal. As stated in posts above, there is nothing as formal for ECNL-NL, but perhaps there will be at some point. Here is a link that describes the pro/rel process for ECNL-RL (the top level of NPL).
National Premier League | Resource | NorCal Premier
norcalpremier.com
Yeah we haven't seen a club relegated yet, but I think that's more because the league is expanding. They will definitely need figure out the details. Relegating a team vs a club is different...so it probably needs to be treated differently. The timing is critical as well. The relegation probably needs to happen prior to the tryout window. What does that mean for a club that might have one good team that makes the playoffs?
Yours in futbol
SILVER
He's referencing the ECNL-RL boys promotion/relegation that is in place for NorCal. As stated in posts above, there is nothing as formal for ECNL-NL, but perhaps there will be at some point. Here is a link that describes the pro/rel process for ECNL-RL (the top level of NPL).
National Premier League | Resource | NorCal Premier
Got it.
Just FYI, NorCal ECNL-RL girls promotion/relegation works the same way for the girls. It's just not as competitive as the boys' side so there's less actual or potential movement.
I'm 50/50 on the NorCal NPL to ECNL-RL transition. On one hand, the pro/rel is interesting. On the other hand, NPL was one of the only ways you could regularly size up ECNL v. GA or basic NPL teams, and it's a loss that ECNL teams can no longer join the league.
The ECNL girls teams generally dominated NPL in years past, but there are many excellent NPL boys teams that can manhandle ECNL boys teams.