Deliberate handball to prevent a goal - OK or Not?

espola said:
It appears you have nothing of substance to add.
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LOL. actually, throughout this thread, all you've done is name call and made false accusations - you think that's substance?

How about answer some of my questions - how was he cheating - being dishonest, immoral, etc... ?
 
Supermodel56 said:
LOL. actually, throughout this thread, all you've done is name call and made false accusations - you think that's substance?

How about answer some of my questions - how was he cheating - being dishonest, immoral, etc... ?
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He was breaking the rules in order to gain an advantage. Isn't that what you have been arguing all along?
 
Supermodel56 said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but in that context, fighting with honor refers to their grit, relentless dedication to the cause, education, and preparation, not by abiding to some unwritten moral code of conduct. Nevertheless it's moot as most would agree Wellington never actually said those words, in fact Matthew Arnold in 1881 wrote:

"The aged Barbarian [ie: a member of the English upper classes] will, upon this, mumble to us his story how the battle of Waterloo was won in the playing-fields of Eton. Alas! disasters have been prepared in those playing-fields as well as victories; disasters due to inadequate mental training - to want of application, knowledge, intelligence, lucidity."

https://oupacademic.tumblr.com/post/57740288322/misquotation-the-battle-of-waterloo-was-won-on
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Wellington actually said, while at Eton ten years after Waterloo watching a cricket match, "The battle of Waterloo was won here."
 
espola said:
He was breaking the rules in order to gain an advantage. Isn't that what you have been arguing all along?
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Wrong. He was using the rules towards his teams advantage, everything he did was by the book - addressed by the rules. The rules state - if you deliberately handle the ball on a goal scoring opportunity, the penalty is a send off and free direct kick or a PK. Those are the rules. He played by them. The penalty for kicking a ball out of bounds is either a goal kick, a corner, or a throw in. Defenders kick the ball out of bounds to prevent goals all the time. A handball outside the box is a direct free kick, inside, it's a pk, nobody would call him a cheater if it happened outside the box at midfield, no one would question his integrity if he had intentionally fouled a player about to score. It's a transaction, a part of the game, nothing more, nothing less. There is no moral value associated with this.

If you have a problem with this play, then you have a problem with the rules, not the player.... back to square one - don't hate the player, hate the game.
 
Supermodel56 said:
and I too am sorry to point out your intellectual shortcomings... have you ever actually looked up what these words you're using mean?
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it's comical how he thinks he knows what he's talking about, but everyone just laughs at his BS..... but to his credit he is 135 years old, so.... you know....
 
Supermodel56 said:
Wrong. While I completely agree that teaching kids to just boot the ball is a disservice to the kids, just because they're playing the long the ball doesn't mean they don't know how to play possession or control the ball for that matter - you act as if they're mutually exclusive. I think it's perfectly ok to play the long ball if the other team is leaving it wide open - the kids should always be looking up and seeing the opportunities and your defense needs to be ready. It keeps other teams honest - otherwise you'll have the opposite problem - coaches that simply push all their players up to crowd the space, poke the ball away and then get an easy score.

At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter what the other team does, if you're getting beat because they're playing the long ball, it's because your defense isn't doing their job and/or they're playing too high - basically they suck. When you play good teams, booting the ball simply doesn't work because their defenders can bring the ball down, control it, take possession, and counter - I love it when teams boot it against us because they're just giving the ball to us.

In other words, stop crying about what the other team is doing. If you're prepared for it, it shouldn't matter.
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The point has flown by. I'm not frustrated at loosing. I'm frustrated at bad coaching. I'm not complaining about the opportunistic long ball. The teams I'm talking about don't "look up and see opportunities", they boot the ball without looking up all the time, no matter what.

I love it when teams boot it against us because they're just giving the ball to us.
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So you get a win against a bad team. This is my point.
 
espola said:
Wellington actually said, while at Eton ten years after Waterloo watching a cricket match, "The battle of Waterloo was won here."
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Good Lord... please do your research before posting nonsense.... do I really have to do everything for you?

See here: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Arthur_Wellesley,_1st_Duke_of_Wellington

Search for "The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton."

and BTW, since you're too lazy, apocryphal means: "(of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true."
 
focomoso said:
The point has flown by. I'm not frustrated at loosing. I'm frustrated at bad coaching. I'm not complaining about the opportunistic long ball. The teams I'm talking about don't "look up and see opportunities", they boot the ball without looking up all the time, no matter what.


So you get a win against a bad team. This is my point.
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I'm with you on this one. It's actually a fairly obvious sign you're playing a bad team if all they do is boot the ball. But it's absurd when parents complain about it after losing to a team like that or they'll use that as an excuse. There really is no excuse and it's on the defense and/or coach for letting them get behind you and/or not winning those 50/50's.
 
Supermodel56 said:
Wrong. He was using the rules towards his teams advantage, everything he did was by the book - addressed by the rules. The rules state - if you deliberately handle the ball on a goal scoring opportunity, the penalty is a send off and free direct kick or a PK. Those are the rules. He played by them. The penalty for kicking a ball out of bounds is either a goal kick, a corner, or a throw in. Defenders kick the ball out of bounds to prevent goals all the time. A handball outside the box is a direct free kick, inside, it's a pk, nobody would call him a cheater if it happened outside the box at midfield, no one would question his integrity if he had intentionally fouled a player about to score. It's a transaction, a part of the game, nothing more, nothing less. There is no moral value associated with this.

If you have a problem with this play, then you have a problem with the rules, not the player.... back to square one - don't hate the player, hate the game.
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He cheated.
 
Supermodel56 said:
Good Lord... please do your research before posting nonsense.... do I really have to do everything for you?

See here: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Arthur_Wellesley,_1st_Duke_of_Wellington

Search for "The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton."

and BTW, since you're too lazy, apocryphal means: "(of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true."
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http://stimpson.allfunandgames.ca/i...id_the_battle_of_waterloo_was_won_at_eton.php
 
Top 10 Famous Soccer Handballs

Only two defending rest are offensive use including the hand of god:





 
A deliberate handball to prevent a goal is not "cheating" nor "dishonest", just as stepping over the line into the field during a throw in, passing to a teammate who is in an offside position, touching a goal kick before it leaves the box, or pushing an opponent carelessly isn't either. Just a rules infraction that is addressed by those rules.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
On a related note. If you guys or your kids haven't seen it, pay the $3 per-game fee and watch Juventus vs Ajax (2nd leg of UCL) on BR Live.
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Thanks for that tip.

I missed that game and wanted to see it, I didn't know you could go back and watch them.

Ajax is playing so great right now, their ball movement is something else.
 
toucan said:
If, as you claim, Wellington never said those words, then you have no basis for describing the "context" in which he used them.

If he did say those words, then my attribution of his meaning (that honorable play has importance) is at least as valid as your attribution of his meaning (that Etonians played with "grit.").
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Incorrect logic. Just because he didn't actually say those words, and even if the saying was false, it does not mean the widely distributed phrase had no common meaning nor context.

In your case - you’re 0 for 3.
1) Wellington never actually said it.
2) The generally accepted meaning doesn't have anything to do with playing with honor.
3) The statement was a load of crap either way you interpret it - while they did have victories, the alumni of Eton we’re equally known for numerous disasters because they lacked intelligence and couldn't see the forest beyond the trees - doing things the same way they always had.
 
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