Deliberate handball to prevent a goal - OK or Not?

Is it worse for the players to play that game or the coach that subs every time the ball goes out of play so that it runs the clock down?

Everyone knows he's doing it, but the ref never denies the sub.

I guess that can be gamesmanship, but he's an ass for doing it.
 
electrichead72 said:
Is it worse for the players to play that game or the coach that subs every time the ball goes out of play so that it runs the clock down?

Everyone knows he's doing it, but the ref never denies the sub.

I guess that can be gamesmanship, but he's an ass for doing it.
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Only if the referee lets him.
 
espola said:
It's cheating.
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As they say, don’t hate the player, hate the game....

I see it as nothing more than using the rules to his advantage - the rules committee could’ve just as easily made the penalty for such an action a goal conceded just like goaltending in basketball... but they didn’t.

Whether you think he cheated or not, it was undoubtedly a smart play that gave his team a chance and paid off.

It’s funny, on this board, people are always talking about how soccer should be played, rip teams for playing the ball over the top, etc... people have in their minds how a game is supposed to be played and get all bent out of shape when someone does something different or don’t play how they expect. But the reality is they just weren’t prepared for it. It’s called strategy. It’s called innovation. And many times it evolves the game and is what makes it interesting because it forces opponents to adjust accordingly. Those who lack the ability to adjust have nothing left but to whine and label their opponents as cheaters or jerks because they can’t accept the reality that they simply lost.
 
Supermodel56 said:
It’s funny, on this board, people are always talking about how soccer should be played, rip teams for playing the ball over the top, etc... people have in their minds how a game is supposed to be played and get all bent out of shape when someone does something different or don’t play how they expect. But the reality is they just weren’t prepared for it. It’s called strategy. It’s called innovation. And many times it evolves the game and is what makes it interesting because it forces opponents to adjust accordingly. Those who lack the ability to adjust have nothing left but to whine and label their opponents as cheaters or jerks because they can’t accept the reality that they simply lost.
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This is exactly why our system is broken. Nowhere else in the world that I know of does winning a Ulittle club game mean anything. But here, we pretend that a tactic of booting the ball is somehow "innovation". This assumes that the reason that our kids play soccer is to win games when the reasons our kids play should be to get better.

No one gets better by just booting the ball randomly forward every time they get it. They may win more games, which makes the parents and coaches happy, but the kids suffer.
 
focomoso said:
This is exactly why our system is broken. Nowhere else in the world that I know of does winning a Ulittle club game mean anything. But here, we pretend that a tactic of booting the ball is somehow "innovation". This assumes that the reason that our kids play soccer is to win games when the reasons our kids play should be to get better.

No one gets better by just booting the ball randomly forward every time they get it. They may win more games, which makes the parents and coaches happy, but the kids suffer.
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On a related note. If you guys or your kids haven't seen it, pay the $3 per-game fee and watch Juventus vs Ajax (2nd leg of UCL) on BR Live. The second half in particular was a spectacular display of how the game should be played. Ajax's style was so exciting that a 10-year-old can easily watch the second half without losing interest.
 
focomoso said:
This is exactly why our system is broken. Nowhere else in the world that I know of does winning a Ulittle club game mean anything. But here, we pretend that a tactic of booting the ball is somehow "innovation". This assumes that the reason that our kids play soccer is to win games when the reasons our kids play should be to get better.

No one gets better by just booting the ball randomly forward every time they get it. They may win more games, which makes the parents and coaches happy, but the kids suffer.
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Wrong. While I completely agree that teaching kids to just boot the ball is a disservice to the kids, just because they're playing the long the ball doesn't mean they don't know how to play possession or control the ball for that matter - you act as if they're mutually exclusive. I think it's perfectly ok to play the long ball if the other team is leaving it wide open - the kids should always be looking up and seeing the opportunities and your defense needs to be ready. It keeps other teams honest - otherwise you'll have the opposite problem - coaches that simply push all their players up to crowd the space, poke the ball away and then get an easy score.

At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter what the other team does, if you're getting beat because they're playing the long ball, it's because your defense isn't doing their job and/or they're playing too high - basically they suck. When you play good teams, booting the ball simply doesn't work because their defenders can bring the ball down, control it, take possession, and counter - I love it when teams boot it against us because they're just giving the ball to us.

In other words, stop crying about what the other team is doing. If you're prepared for it, it shouldn't matter.
 
focomoso said:
This is exactly why our system is broken. Nowhere else in the world that I know of does winning a Ulittle club game mean anything. But here, we pretend that a tactic of booting the ball is somehow "innovation". This assumes that the reason that our kids play soccer is to win games when the reasons our kids play should be to get better.

No one gets better by just booting the ball randomly forward every time they get it. They may win more games, which makes the parents and coaches happy, but the kids suffer.
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Just to add... if you're frustrated that you lost because the other team didn't play the way you liked... then, well... maybe winning matters more to you than you think. ;)
 
Supermodel56 said:
As they say, don’t hate the player, hate the game....

I see it as nothing more than using the rules to his advantage - the rules committee could’ve just as easily made the penalty for such an action a goal conceded just like goaltending in basketball... but they didn’t.

Whether you think he cheated or not, it was undoubtedly a smart play that gave his team a chance and paid off.

It’s funny, on this board, people are always talking about how soccer should be played, rip teams for playing the ball over the top, etc... people have in their minds how a game is supposed to be played and get all bent out of shape when someone does something different or don’t play how they expect. But the reality is they just weren’t prepared for it. It’s called strategy. It’s called innovation. And many times it evolves the game and is what makes it interesting because it forces opponents to adjust accordingly. Those who lack the ability to adjust have nothing left but to whine and label their opponents as cheaters or jerks because they can’t accept the reality that they simply lost.
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It's called cheating.
 
There is a difference between winning with class and winning at all costs. Many people (and Suarez fans) don't know the difference.
 
outside! said:
There is a difference between winning with class and winning at all costs. Many people (and Suarez fans) don't know the difference.
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And they used to fight wars by walking into an open field facing each other before they realized that was just plain stupid... just sayin..
 
Supermodel56 said:
I don't think cheating means what you think it means...

cheat
/CHēt/
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
  1. 1.
    act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
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While you have your dictionary open, look up "integrity".
 
Supermodel56 said:
And they used to fight wars by walking into an open field facing each other before they realized that was just plain stupid... just sayin..
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We are talking about what we teach our children, most of whom will never play professionally. War as an analogy for sports is just plain stupid. War is not entertainment.
 
toucan said:
"The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton."

Wellington was referring to Eton, a boys' school in England, where playing (and by extension, fighting) with honor is a primary principle.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but in that context, fighting with honor refers to their grit, relentless dedication to the cause, education, and preparation, not by abiding to some unwritten moral code of conduct. Nevertheless it's moot as most would agree Wellington never actually said those words, in fact Matthew Arnold in 1881 wrote:

"The aged Barbarian [ie: a member of the English upper classes] will, upon this, mumble to us his story how the battle of Waterloo was won in the playing-fields of Eton. Alas! disasters have been prepared in those playing-fields as well as victories; disasters due to inadequate mental training - to want of application, knowledge, intelligence, lucidity."

https://oupacademic.tumblr.com/post/57740288322/misquotation-the-battle-of-waterloo-was-won-on
 
espola said:
While you have your dictionary open, look up "integrity".
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LOL. Don't be mad bro.

Integrity: "the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness."

...and he was dishonest or immoral, how?

You're really struggling with this whole english vocabulary thing, aren't ya?
 
Supermodel56 said:
LOL. Don't be mad bro.

Integrity: "the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness."

...and he was dishonest or immoral, how?

You're really struggling with this whole english vocabulary thing, aren't ya?
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I am sorry to have to point out your ethical shortcomings. Has no one ever done it to you before?
 
outside! said:
We are talking about what we teach our children, most of whom will never play professionally. War as an analogy for sports is just plain stupid. War is not entertainment.
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Sports is a great vehicle to teach our kids about life and frankly, I prefer to teach my children to think intelligently and that there isn't just one way to solve a problem.
 
Supermodel56 said:
Sports is a great vehicle to teach our kids about life and frankly, I prefer to teach my children to think intelligently and that there isn't just one way to solve a problem.
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You teach your children that it is ok to break the rules as long as you are doing it to win?
 
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