Days between Games- 2 games a weekend is a BAD idea

[watfly]

Letter leagues and flight 1 soccer are primarily a sham. The vast majority of players lack basic fundamentals and are not elite.

The problems with the lack of rest and recovery stems from coaches having to earn their pay. There isn’t much development going on in these games as many players lack basic fundamentals. I understand folks have to make a living so, it is what it is.

I’m convinced all high school sports are the way to go. I don’t see how high school soccer games are lower quality or more dangerous than letter leagues as they both have many players that lack basic fundamentals. I think folks are falling for marketing and are not actually paying attention to what’s going in these letter league games; IDK, maybe it the cool backpacks the players get because it sure isn’t the level of play.

I’m confident my player participating in high school XC, soccer, and swim team will develop her better than any coach in any letter league with a substantially lower risk of injury.

Coaches have to get paid and therein lies the real problem.

My player was at the skatepark chilling and chopping it up with her patnas this weekend. She’s fully rested and recovered for XC practice today.

I agree with much you have to say. The letter leagues are no different from each other, other than the amount of talent they may attract. I don't know that they are a sham, like many products they overpromise and underdeliver, but that's pretty easy for a parent to figure out after a couple years. Leagues don't develop players, coaches can, but the only true pathway (despite what clubs and leagues claim) is the talent of your child. It seems that's the path you're following. Good luck to you.

I few years ago in the GU17 World Cup the US women had a team comprised of what most people I believe wrongly describe as 1v1 players (I have a completely different expectation of what it means to be a 1v1 player). Time after time they dribbled straight into pressure. Not only did they get smoked it was unattractive soccer (not that you get points for style).

Like you, I'm a big proponent of speed of play, soccer IQ emphasis and limited touch soccer. It's easy for us to be know-it-alls on a forum, but how do we accomplish that? You can blame the leagues, but I don't know that they are the ones that can solve the problem. How do you think we solve this problem? This is not a criticism, but how do you get your daughter to improve her speed of play if she's not playing and having to make decisions in a game like environment?

I haven't read a ton of soccer books, but this is far and away the best book I've ever read. It's an easy read and is broken down in short concise, chapters. It's not rocket science, but it has a lot of good nuggets that are easy to apply.

Soccer IQ: Things That Smart Players Do, Vol. 1: Blank, Dan: 9781469982472: Amazon.com: Books

Soccer IQ: Things That Smart Players Do, Vol. 1 [Blank, Dan] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Soccer IQ: Things That Smart Players Do, Vol. 1

www.amazon.com

 

[Simisoccerfan]

So sad, but so true.

Don't hold Mexico up as a great example of women's soccer. Remember that goal of the game is to win and they hardly ever do. But maybe that will change in the future.

 

[MacDre]

Don't hold Mexico up as a great example of women's soccer. Remember that goal of the game is to win and they hardly ever do. But maybe that will change in the future.

Mexican soccer has it problems but their training and initial focus on basic fundamentals is vastly superior to what we are doing here. In other words, if our females had a similar development environment to what Mexican females have now we’d be unbeatable.

 

[MacDre]

I agree with much you have to say. The letter leagues are no different from each other, other than the amount of talent they may attract. I don't know that they are a sham, like many products they overpromise and underdeliver, but that's pretty easy for a parent to figure out after a couple years. Leagues don't develop players, coaches can, but the only true pathway (despite what clubs and leagues claim) is the talent of your child. It seems that's the path you're following. Good luck to you.

I few years ago in the GU17 World Cup the US women had a team comprised of what most people I believe wrongly describe as 1v1 players (I have a completely different expectation of what it means to be a 1v1 player). Time after time they dribbled straight into pressure. Not only did they get smoked it was unattractive soccer (not that you get points for style).

Like you, I'm a big proponent of speed of play, soccer IQ emphasis and limited touch soccer. It's easy for us to be know-it-alls on a forum, but how do we accomplish that? You can blame the leagues, but I don't know that they are the ones that can solve the problem. How do you think we solve this problem? This is not a criticism, but how do you get your daughter to improve her speed of play if she's not playing and having to make decisions in a game like environment?

I haven't read a ton of soccer books, but this is far and away the best book I've ever read. It's an easy read and is broken down in short concise, chapters. It's not rocket science, but it has a lot of good nuggets that are easy to apply.

Soccer IQ: Things That Smart Players Do, Vol. 1: Blank, Dan: 9781469982472: Amazon.com: Books

Soccer IQ: Things That Smart Players Do, Vol. 1 [Blank, Dan] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Soccer IQ: Things That Smart Players Do, Vol. 1

www.amazon.com

Great post and great question. I guess I’m kinda of cheating because I plan on using my contacts in Mexico to improve my players speed of play and decision making. I have looked for males and females in my Bay Area community to do rondos etc but there’s a serious lack of interest. The parents and kids that are interested lack the requisite skillset to be successful so, this process has been very frustrating for me.

For the parents with players 12 and under I recommend Futsal or Rapid Futbol. But, I noticed when my player played in San Diego at the Futbol Factory that it wasn’t very beneficial because the players from Albion, Rebels, Chula Vista etc. were so used to playing kickball that they always booted the ball when under pressure. When I talked to the coach and asked him to make the teams pass the ball 5-10 times before they could shoot many players were unsuccessful, lost interest and stop coming to play.

When I was in 5th grade my basketball coach told the team if he spotted us without a basketball at anytime, then the team runs. So, I ended up dribbling everywhere on all different types of surfaces. So, I always made my player carry her ball with her. Going to the grocery store, bring your ball. Going to Fisherman’s Wharf, bring your ball etc. etc.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Great post and great question. I guess I’m kinda of cheating because I plan on using my contacts in Mexico to improve my players speed of play and decision making. I have looked for males and females in my Bay Area community to do rondos etc but there’s a serious lack of interest. The parents and kids that are interested lack the requisite skillset to be successful so, this process has been very frustrating for me.

For the parents with players 12 and under I recommend Futsal or Rapid Futbol. But, I noticed when my player played in San Diego at the Futbol Factory that it wasn’t very beneficial because the players from Albion, Rebels, Chula Vista etc. were so used to playing kickball that they always booted the ball when under pressure. When I talked to the coach and asked him to make the teams pass the ball 5-10 times before they could shoot many players were unsuccessful, lost interest and stop coming to play.

When I was in 5th grade my basketball coach told the team if he spotted us without a basketball at anytime, then the team runs. So, I ended up dribbling everywhere on all different types of surfaces. So, I always made my player carry her ball with her. Going to the grocery store, bring your ball. Going to Fisherman’s Wharf, bring your ball etc. etc.

The reason you're seeing kickball in futsal right now vs triangles is because with Covid teams haven't been playing each other.

Futsal even more than field soccer you'll see the benefits of quick passing vs direct.

 

[soccersc]

Spot on. But I disagree with you categorizing turbo soccer as a legitimate style of play because it’s not. The clubs are pissing in our faces and calling it rain. We play the way we play in the US because our players lack basic fundamentals.

I could care less about our style of play. I want the focus to be on basic fundamentals until U17 and then we can play any style of play that we choose.

We play, the way we play, in the US because we have been inundated by European coaches. As club soccer grew in the US, coaches from Europe began to overwhelm the scene....back in the day much of the thought was, English guys knew soccer, and they have cool accents, so they must know what they are talking about. Well, guess what style of play European guys learned how to play...direct. Players in Europe had to play direct because field conditions were so bad they couldn't play the ball on the floor, so thus, and ariel, direct attack. That, with the pressure of having to win has greatly influenced the soccer culture in America and it is going to be very tough to break. But Pep did a pretty good job of changing it in Europe so who knows.

 

[lafalafa]

Great post and great question. I guess I’m kinda of cheating because I plan on using my contacts in Mexico to improve my players speed of play and decision making. I have looked for males and females in my Bay Area community to do rondos etc but there’s a serious lack of interest. The parents and kids that are interested lack the requisite skillset to be successful so, this process has been very frustrating for me.

For the parents with players 12 and under I recommend Futsal or Rapid Futbol. But, I noticed when my player played in San Diego at the Futbol Factory that it wasn’t very beneficial because the players from Albion, Rebels, Chula Vista etc. were so used to playing kickball that they always booted the ball when under pressure. When I talked to the coach and asked him to make the teams pass the ball 5-10 times before they could shoot many players were unsuccessful, lost interest and stop coming to play.

When I was in 5th grade my basketball coach told the team if he spotted us without a basketball at anytime, then the team runs. So, I ended up dribbling everywhere on all different types of surfaces. So, I always made my player carry her ball with her. Going to the grocery store, bring your ball. Going to Fisherman’s Wharf, bring your ball etc. etc.

All three of our players played futsal for 1-3 years before even getting on grass pitches. I just happen to luck into to since the YMCA had program for the kids starting at 4-5. Funny thing about it is that a owner of some wherehouse space had a kid in the program and he liked it so much decided to open up a indoor facility. Was just concrete flooring and put in a few goals & some astro mat like turf, the cheap stuff. Soon learned that wasn't that great and eventually switch to real futsal surface's / tiles.

My youngest son loved that place and played there all the time for a number of years. They had pickup games so could just drop in.

Like to see more of them but RE is so expensive in some areas not sure if they will again become popular.

Futsal Courts | Urban Soccer Park

Providing safe, durable futsal courts that can be installed almost anywhere—no foundation required. Click here to build your very own futsal court!

www.urbansoccerpark.com

If the schools could invest in them maybe they have will have a better chance but adult pickup can be very popular at those places after work like 6pm+

Futsal is a good game to learn technique, ball control, passing, transition, teamwork, defending. Can't really hide or just play on one side of the ball need to be good overall. That's a foundation that players can build on.

When you start out on a bigger fields first it's more about running, the faster the better type of deal. However if you already have the fundamentals down the grass game on the bigger 7 v 7 or 9 v 9 fields come easier for those players. Every once in a while I still tell my son hey that was a futsal goal, pass or technique like the outside of the foot flicks, scoops or really tight angle stuff he pulls off and people are like where did that come from.

You can play multiple futsal games a day or even back to back without suffering like you can on the bigger fields. Every player with get more touches and time on the ball but not sure in general if more players enjoy futsal vs regular soccer, seems like the opposite for players at a certain age.

 

[MacDre]

We play, the way we play, in the US because we have been inundated by European coaches. As club soccer grew in the US, coaches from Europe began to overwhelm the scene....back in the day much of the thought was, English guys knew soccer, and they have cool accents, so they must know what they are talking about. Well, guess what style of play European guys learned how to play...direct. Players in Europe had to play direct because field conditions were so bad they couldn't play the ball on the floor, so thus, and ariel, direct attack. That, with the pressure of having to win has greatly influenced the soccer culture in America and it is going to be very tough to break. But Pep did a pretty good job of changing it in Europe so who knows.

Good stuff. But I think US parents of females should loudly protest due to the high risk of ACL injuries too. It’s hard for me to read the post about players with ACL injuries as it’s very disturbing to me.

I think taking a “harm reduction” strategy should be a priority to protect our girls too. The direct play is too dangerous and the risk of injury is too high.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

ACL injuries are brutal for all involved but you can learn from it, recover, and be stronger than ever.

 

[MacDre]

ACL injuries are brutal for all involved but you can learn from it, recover, and be stronger than ever.

I get it, if it doesn’t kill you, it’ll make you stronger…right?

Well in this situation, I’d say that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[lafalafa]

ACL injuries are brutal for all involved but you can learn from it, recover, and be stronger than ever.

Much more risks for the females in cutting sports. Playing year round increases those risks but the number of tears seems to peak around age 16 but not sure why?

Something like 6x more risks for ACL injuries for females vs males for HS athletes I recall reading.

Seen two ACL injuries one female and one male in all the years of watching the three players. I was interested to find out more of these players and the one thing I found out about them is they where almost flat footed. Both happened while they where running no contact, cut sharply standing upright with leg extended.

There are prevention programs that can decrease the risks a bunch but I've read that the future risks of another ACL problem is rather high like 10% or something like that for females but I don't remember the exact numbers.

 

[MacDre]

All three of our players played futsal for 1-3 years before even getting on grass pitches. I just happen to luck into to since the YMCA had program for the kids starting at 4-5. Funny thing about it is that a owner of some wherehouse space had a kid in the program and he liked it so much decided to open up a indoor facility. Was just concrete flooring and put in a few goals & some astro mat like turf, the cheap stuff. Soon learned that wasn't that great and eventually switch to real futsal surface's / tiles.

My youngest son loved that place and played there all the time for a number of years. They had pickup games so could just drop in.

Like to see more of them but RE is so expensive in some areas not sure if they will again become popular.

Futsal Courts | Urban Soccer Park

Providing safe, durable futsal courts that can be installed almost anywhere—no foundation required. Click here to build your very own futsal court!

www.urbansoccerpark.com

If the schools could invest in them maybe they have will have a better chance but adult pickup can be very popular at those places after work like 6pm+

Futsal is a good game to learn technique, ball control, passing, transition, teamwork, defending. Can't really hide or just play on one side of the ball need to be good overall. That's a foundation that players can build on.

When you start out on a bigger fields first it's more about running, the faster the better type of deal. However if you already have the fundamentals down the grass game on the bigger 7 v 7 or 9 v 9 fields come easier for those players. Every once in a while I still tell my son hey that was a futsal goal, pass or technique like the outside of the foot flicks, scoops or really tight angle stuff he pulls off and people are like where did that come from.

You can play multiple futsal games a day or even back to back without suffering like you can on the bigger fields. Every player with get more touches and time on the ball but not sure in general if more players enjoy futsal vs regular soccer, seems like the opposite for players at a certain age.

My limited experience with school districts, shows me that schools are very open to improving their soccer programs. I think school districts are more concerned with equal access and frown on folks profiting off of kids.

I know this because I tried to complain to my AD, school board, and superintendent about the poor soccer programming. They agreed, told me that I could use the facilities for free, and are pressuring me to get involved and start ASAP. They actually followed me to my car and offered me a paid position!!!

I’m hesitant because I don’t consider myself a soccer guy and selfishly want to spend the last few years of my players development by her side without distraction. But, I think I might help develop a program in my community in a few years when my player is older.

 

[MacDre]

Much more risks for the females in cutting sports. Playing year round increases those risks but the number of tears seems to peak around age 16 but not sure why?

Something like 6x more risks for ACL injuries for females vs males for HS athletes I recall reading.

Seen two ACL injuries one female and one male in all the years of watching the three players. I was interested to find out more of these players and the one thing I found out about them is they where almost flat footed. Both happened while they where running no contact, cut sharply standing upright with leg extended.

There are prevention programs that can decrease the risks a bunch but I've read that the future risks of another ACL problem is rather high like 10% or something like that for females but I don't remember the exact numbers.

I’ve never met Klay but we are related. Klay is coming off of an ACL injury probably caused by the hectic NBA schedule. So, although not as common as the players you described, players with good genetics are at risk too if they don’t cross train.

Klay kayaks the bay to practice - ESPN Video

Klay Thompson is enjoying a kayak out on San Francisco Bay on his way to practice.

www.espn.com

 

[Woodwork]

At the high school ages, I can predict with a great amount of accuracy which team is going to win by the size of their bench.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Spot on. But I disagree with you categorizing turbo soccer as a legitimate style of play because it’s not. The clubs are pissing in our faces and calling it rain. We play the way we play in the US because our players lack basic fundamentals.

I could care less about our style of play. I want the focus to be on basic fundamentals until U17 and then we can play any style of play that we choose.

Ha! I say "legitimate" in the sense that a less skilled team can beat a much more technically proficient team with the style. I don't like it either and the early training choices we made with our daughter was to make sure she was comfortable with the ball at her feet. The problem is that teams can win with the turbo style - especially at the youth level. I remember our first ECNL Showcase in Phoenix. We were playing one of the top teams in the age group (U15 IIRC). They started with the ball. After a quick touch to start the game, they kicked the ball deep into their offensive corner and pressured. None of that messy and dangerous passing the ball in the middle of the field. They let us do that. They won. I feel comfortable saying my daughter's team showed better mastery of basic fundamentals but the other team didn't cheat. They just played a style in a way that they were able to overcome whatever technical advantage our girls had. You can blame the coaches for not teaching fundamentals but the coaches have to make a living and they like coaching the best players that they can find and it's difficult to get the "best" players if a coach doesn't win consistently. For many parents, "winning" soccer defines the desired training and style. The dearth of coaches focused on the type of soccer you describe is a testament to the difficulty of winning that way.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Much more risks for the females in cutting sports. Playing year round increases those risks but the number of tears seems to peak around age 16 but not sure why?

Something like 6x more risks for ACL injuries for females vs males for HS athletes I recall reading.

Seen two ACL injuries one female and one male in all the years of watching the three players. I was interested to find out more of these players and the one thing I found out about them is they where almost flat footed. Both happened while they where running no contact, cut sharply standing upright with leg extended.

There are prevention programs that can decrease the risks a bunch but I've read that the future risks of another ACL problem is rather high like 10% or something like that for females but I don't remember the exact numbers.

I probably personally know more than 10 girls that have had ACL injuries including my own daughter. Most were non-contact though my daughter's happened from a collision. There are definitely exercises that can be done to minimize the chance of non-contact injuries but you will always have a risk of contact injuries.

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

I probably personally know more than 10 girls that have had ACL injuries including my own daughter. Most were non-contact though my daughter's happened from a collision. There are definitely exercises that can be done to minimize the chance of non-contact injuries but you will always have a risk of contact injuries.

My boys had a coach from Argentina. He made the entire team do 1 hour of yoga/pilates once a week. His players would hardly ever get injuries. Yoga/stretching is a way to avoid injuries for all ages.

 

[SoccerLocker]

My boys had a coach from Argentina. He made the entire team do 1 hour of yoga/pilates once a week. His players would hardly ever get injuries. Yoga/stretching is a way to avoid injuries for all ages.

The gold standard for ACL injury prevention is the PEP program. Developed in 1984, and ignored ever since... It emphasizes learning how to land correctly (knees bent) and strengthening the muscles around the knee: PEP Program

 

[BIGD]

Are you talking men's or womens's soccer? If men's I can agree with some of your points. But for women all of the D1 schools are made up of the top youth players who certainly have gotten better since they were young girls. Maybe two or three pro women soccer players in the US have bypassed college soccer.

Men’s soccer as I only have boys playing soccer so can’t speak to the women’s side. The D1 game I referenced was men’s soccer.

 

[lafalafa]

Men’s soccer as I only have boys playing soccer so can’t speak to the women’s side. The D1 game I referenced was men’s soccer.

I've watched or been to over 100 men's D1 soccer games and the quality and play can vary widely just like it does in every league. Compared to say divisions 3 (NISA, USL 2) in men's soccer it's a notch below that in my opinion.

This is last years final

 

[timbuck]

I probably personally know more than 10 girls that have had ACL injuries including my own daughter. Most were non-contact though my daughter's happened from a collision. There are definitely exercises that can be done to minimize the chance of non-contact injuries but you will always have a risk of contact injuries.

I hear lots of people say "it was a non-contact injury". I'm not a doctor, but my suspicion is that overuse, lack of recovery time and the wrong cleats on synthetic surfaces is what leads to a lot of these injuries.
We have 15,16, 17, 18 year old girls playing 2 games in less than 36 hours. We have them training from 7:30-9:00 pm at club practice. After being at school from 7:30 am until 3pm. And also having "soccer class" 2 or 3 days a week for their school soccer team (before the actual season starts).