DA and ECNL

MarkM said:
Two questions/thoughts a little off topic:

(1) At what point is it fair for US Soccer to exclude kids on tournament teams that are not following their program? There is a range of things from big to small. For example, my kid hates Nike cleats; they hurt her feet. Is it unfair that US Soccer won't let her participate unless she wears Nike cleats? Or what if my kid doesn't want to skip school for another training camp. Is it OK if US Soccer leaves her off the next travel team because she didn't show up to the previous camp? Are these fair reasons to exclude my kid, but it's unfair to exclude my kid when she wants to play high school soccer rather than play more club games? I'm not trying to create a war about this issue. I'm just of the opinion that it is often much more complicated than picking the most talented kid at that moment. Buying into the program matters at some level.

(2) If and when GDA collapses, does anyone have concern that the "elite" soccer landscape is going to be even worse? ECNL added a ton of weak clubs when GDA was created and it had to give several good clubs two teams to convince them to go all "in." The few remaining dual GDA/ECNL will obviously go back full in on ECNL. But there are ton of really good clubs outside of ECNL now. What will happen to the Surf teams, Eagles, San Jose Quakes, NYFC, California Thorns, Legends, Beach, etc. Will ECNL really keep clubs like FC Nova and Del Mar Sharks, but exclude these other clubs? Maybe ECNL becomes enormous and adds everyone? Or do these other teams create a separate league even if US Soccer is not in control? I'm hoping for a smooth transition if this thing crashes and burns soon.
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Maybe then ECNL will have to create divisions like Discovery, Champions and Europa
 
davin said:
On what are you basing your opinion on that "most of the top players already have gone GDA"? At the Surf cup U14 age group, there was only 1 division where they put both ECNL and GDA teams, and the 2 ECNL teams both made it to the finals. In the Surf cup U13 top division, a team from an ECNL club beat a team from a GDA club to win the championship. At Silverlakes, in the two youngest age groups(U14 and U15), the ECNL teams outperfomed GDA teams head to head. If "most top players" are in GDA, shouldn't they be outperforming ECNL head to head by a landslide?
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Your data is a little off.
In U14 at Surf there was only one ECNL team that played DA teams (Heat) and yes they made the final (but lost). That is a very good team with a dominant player and at least one of their pool play games was watched by national team staff (I assume they were not only looking at the GDA players). That club will be going to DA. I am confident that no other ECNL clubs besides Heat in that age group would have made a final in the top GDA bracket. The GDA teams in the white bracket were of mixed ability and several stronger ECNL teams could compete in there.
Wasn’t at Silverlakes and haven’t even looked at the results so I can’t speak to that.
There is no GDA U13, so that point is mute until next year when players actually decide between GDA and ECNL. San Juan 06 is very strong in their age group, though.
Your question is an oversimplification. Not every GDA team is strong. In my daughters age group in all of California my view that most of the top players are in GDA is based on my knowledge of the individual players and what clubs they play at.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
Your data is a little off.
In U14 at Surf there was only one ECNL team that played DA teams (Heat) and yes they made the final (but lost). That is a very good team with a dominant player and at least one of their pool play games was watched by national team staff (I assume they were not only looking at the GDA players). That club will be going to DA. I am confident that no other ECNL clubs besides Heat in that age group would have made a final in the top GDA bracket. .
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It is your data that is off. Slammers and Heat are both ECNL. And the same Slammers team would've almost certainly won the top flight of the U14 USSDA bracket so your confidence is misplaced.
 
futboldad1 said:
It is your data that is off. Slammers and Heat are both ECNL. And the same Slammers team would've almost certainly won the top flight of the U14 USSDA bracket so your confidence is misplaced.
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I said only Heat played against GDA teams at Surf in U14. No team named Slammers did. 05 ECNL Slammers that did play didn’t play DA teams, and didn’t do well. What part of my data is inaccurate?

If you’re arguing that the girls that have historically played with Slammers are strong, I agree. Doesn’t change my view that most of the top U14 players are in DA though.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
I said only Heat played against GDA teams at Surf in U14. No team named Slammers did. 05 ECNL Slammers that did play didn’t play DA teams, and didn’t do well. What part of my data is inaccurate?

If you’re arguing that the girls that have historically played with Slammers are strong, I agree. Doesn’t change my view that most of the top U14 players are in DA though.
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LAFC = Slammers. Man, just quit already.
 
It has been said over and over on here that the lafc slammers 05s have no competition other than Heat in ECNL SW and might be better off playing up as a team or individuals playing up
 
davin said:
On what are you basing your opinion on that "most of the top players already have gone GDA"? At the Surf cup U14 age group, there was only 1 division where they put both ECNL and GDA teams, and the 2 ECNL teams both made it to the finals. In the Surf cup U13 top division, a team from an ECNL club beat a team from a GDA club to win the championship. At Silverlakes, in the two youngest age groups(U14 and U15), the ECNL teams outperfomed GDA teams head to head. If "most top players" are in GDA, shouldn't they be outperforming ECNL head to head by a landslide?
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Exactly this. Plus at U18 the only non GDA team in the USSDA bracket won the thing winning all four games vs Surf, Blues, Real and Galaxy. But enough with those pesky facts.....
 
Soccerfan2 said:
One problem is perpetuating this nonsense. Your kid is not at that level, and you haven’t seen anything up close, yet you have decided you know how it works. GDA is not the only place US Soccer is looking. Not playing GDA is not going to eliminate your child from national team opportunity. US Soccer looks at ECNL, NTC, they look and co-train with ODP. PDP recommends to NTC. If your kid is that good, everybody knows who they are anyway. Yes, US soccer openly prefers that national team potentials play in GDA. Yes, it will be self fulfilling and validating for US Soccer if the national players come from GDA. But if there’s a ringer playing anywhere, they’ll be taking them! Just get closer and when you know the player pool, you’ll see. Now GDA players do get additional visibility because the US soccer TA’s are at their practices and games. Extra visibility alone is a bad reason to uproot your life to join GDA. But if your kid is a younger where most top players have already gone GDA, has the aspiration of being a top player, and there’s a good GDA program nearby, why wouldn’t you go there vs ECNL (except HS - I think that’s a valid barrier)? Unless of course US Soccer is SO bad, in which case you would never want your child playing on the national team anyway, right? Gotta steer clear from that too same as GDA, right?
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Well just because my children are not in DA please dont assume they are not or are something. I have had a child train and be invited to an Academy but we are not willing to sacrifice one players dreams for another. My other child loves soccer as well and the drive for one eliminates play for another . So my child has had other camps but is not national team quality. I know this and that is fine. My comment is more to GDA and DA limiting the opportunity. Maybe and this is a long shot maybe if my child had the increased exposure they maybe (again lingshot) NT quality. Most likely not as the numbers dont add up. My point is that there are kids in our area that also can not sacrifice time and money to go to the nearest DA oe GDA and this are excluded from exposures. ODP and NTC are a pool of very good players and often times coaches favorites and exclude very good players as well. Please dont turn a blind eye to politics . We have all seen odp players at camps less deserving then others again in a layman's view. Again my soccer child sunglasses know where they stand and do not read rosy National Team Red but there are GDA DA players less talented then player outside of areas.. the scope needs to be broadened not shrunk is the main point here.
 
BigSoccer said:
Well just because my children are not in DA please dont assume they are not or are something. I have had a child train and be invited to an Academy but we are not willing to sacrifice one players dreams for another. My other child loves soccer as well and the drive for one eliminates play for another . So my child has had other camps but is not national team quality. I know this and that is fine. My comment is more to GDA and DA limiting the opportunity. Maybe and this is a long shot maybe if my child had the increased exposure they maybe (again lingshot) NT quality. Most likely not as the numbers dont add up. My point is that there are kids in our area that also can not sacrifice time and money to go to the nearest DA oe GDA and this are excluded from exposures. ODP and NTC are a pool of very good players and often times coaches favorites and exclude very good players as well. Please dont turn a blind eye to politics . We have all seen odp players at camps less deserving then others again in a layman's view. Again my soccer child sunglasses know where they stand and do not read rosy National Team Red but there are GDA DA players less talented then player outside of areas.. the scope needs to be broadened not shrunk is the main point here.
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Politics exist anywhere humanity exists. Always will. However I more frequently hear parents of kids who have no business being anywhere complain of politics than I see actual politics. We all see things a bit differently. Sounds like you have a very good reason for not picking DA. Family balance is important! I have a die hard kid who may or may not have a real shot at the national pool - but she’s putting everything she has into it. Never know if she’ll even like soccer in two more years but as long as she’s all in I will be there to support it. I just wish for all the kids like her to get to play each other. In DA ideally, since that’s where she’s at ;)
 
Soccerfan2 said:
Politics exist anywhere humanity exists. Always will. However I more frequently hear parents of kids who have no business being anywhere complain of politics than I see actual politics. We all see things a bit differently. Sounds like you have a very good reason for not picking DA. Family balance is important! I have a die hard kid who may or may not have a real shot at the national pool - but she’s putting everything she has into it. Never know if she’ll even like soccer in two more years but as long as she’s all in I will be there to support it. I just wish for all the kids like her to get to play each other. In DA ideally, since that’s where she’s at ;)
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If your round trip was 2hrs one way would you feel the same. I am just asking as we all have to make adulting decisions.
 
Nope! I would definitely not drive 4 hrs per day to training multiple times per week. I would play my kid on the best team I could actually get to and keep her in ODP and PDP.

But, in our case DA is local and ECNL is the drive.
 
Yes, we are very grateful to have reasonably close options. For those like you that don’t, ignore the doomsday negativity and excuses about it being a closed system and just grind. I for sure agree w MAP that the cream always rises to the top. If it gets to the point where your kid is unquestionable national team
material and exposure is the real problem, then you get creative.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
Your data is a little off.
In U14 at Surf there was only one ECNL team that played DA teams (Heat) and yes they made the final (but lost). That is a very good team with a dominant player and at least one of their pool play games was watched by national team staff (I assume they were not only looking at the GDA players). That club will be going to DA. I am confident that no other ECNL clubs besides Heat in that age group would have made a final in the top GDA bracket. The GDA teams in the white bracket were of mixed ability and several stronger ECNL teams could compete in there.
Wasn’t at Silverlakes and haven’t even looked at the results so I can’t speak to that.
There is no GDA U13, so that point is mute until next year when players actually decide between GDA and ECNL. San Juan 06 is very strong in their age group, though.
Your question is an oversimplification. Not every GDA team is strong. In my daughters age group in all of California my view that most of the top players are in GDA is based on my knowledge of the individual players and what clubs they play at.
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As mentioned, the team that beat Heat in the final was LAFC which will be one of the Slammers ECNL teams this season. The only real data points we have about the relative strengths of GDA teams vs. ECNL teams is the head to head matchups in these pre-season tournaments, which the ECNL got the better of in both Surf and Silverlakes at the youngest ECNL/GDA agegroups. You seem to be making up a lot of excuses for the lack of results in GDA's favor, and your "belief" that "most the top players" are in GDA doesn't pass the smell test. The results say otherwise.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
There is no GDA U13, so that point is mute until next year when players actually decide between GDA and ECNL. San Juan 06 is very strong in their age group, though.
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And by the way, 3 out of the 4 semifinalists in the top division at Surf Cup U13 were ECNL with only 1 GDA semifinalist, and the eventual champion was ECNL. The point is neither moot or "mute".;)
 
davin said:
As mentioned, the team that beat Heat in the final was LAFC which will be one of the Slammers ECNL teams this season. The only real data points we have about the relative strengths of GDA teams vs. ECNL teams is the head to head matchups in these pre-season tournaments, which the ECNL got the better of in both Surf and Silverlakes at the youngest ECNL/GDA agegroups. You seem to be making up a lot of excuses for the lack of results in GDA's favor, and your "belief" that "most the top players" are in GDA doesn't pass the smell test. The results say otherwise.
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Yes, Heat and LAFC made the U14 finals in the 2nd DA division at Surf. The U13 teams are not GDA yet.
I have zero interest in making excuses for anything. I just share what I see in case it’s useful to someone else. I don’t mind the claim about where the top players are being challenged. If you think your data conclusively shows that more top players are ECNL at U14, have at it. I have my view, I’m happy with our choice so far, my kid gets to play in two GDA age groups and NTC against a lot of top players, and there are quite a few other benefits that haven’t even come up in discussion. And of course there are some drawbacks, the biggest of which is the good players are split between two systems and that hurts everyone. I like to be a positive voice for those considering GDA who are not attached to the ECNL vs GDA war and the US Soccer hating as there are so many on here against GDA. Good luck to all the hard working girls on all the teams this season!
 
Soccerfan2 said:
Yes, Heat and LAFC made the U14 finals in the 2nd DA division at Surf. The U13 teams are not GDA yet.
I have zero interest in making excuses for anything. I just share what I see in case it’s useful to someone else. I don’t mind the claim about where the top players are being challenged. If you think your data conclusively shows that more top players are ECNL at U14, have at it. I have my view, I’m happy with our choice so far, my kid gets to play in two GDA age groups and NTC against a lot of top players, and there are quite a few other benefits that haven’t even come up in discussion. And of course there are some drawbacks, the biggest of which is the good players are split between two systems and that hurts everyone. I like to be a positive voice for those considering GDA who are not attached to the ECNL vs GDA war and the US Soccer hating as there are so many on here against GDA. Good luck to all the hard working girls on all the teams this season!
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I'm not saying that definitively more top players are in ECNL than in GDA. What I'm trying to point out is that the data doesn't support your earlier claim that most of the top players in the younger age groups are in GDA.

And while we're at it, here's a couple of other data points for you. According to this RPI calculation, the #6(Legends) and #8(Seattle Reign) 2004 teams were at Silverlakes two weekend ago and both played 3 games against ECNL teams. http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/2017-2018-gda-club-standings.4188/page-8#post-204599

Legends 2004 DA was 1-1-1 against ECNL teams.
Reign 2004 DA was 0-2-1 against ECNL teams.

These two top 10 ranked DA teams combined for a grand total of ONE win in 6 games versus ECNL. Let that sink in.
 
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