D1 college soccer under threat

[MacDre]

My experience is with an under 18 player (minor). It's a formal application to FIFA that can only be prepared by a country's federation (e.g. FFA, FA). Solicitors do the application and they are only going to do it if the player has been on their radar and the youth nat team coach wants to select them for an international qualifying tournament or youth nat team camp. You have to show proof of nationality as well as living, studying and being connected to the community in that country for at least 5 years. Once they receive the application FIFA then contacts the other countries' federations and they need to respond that the player never represented their country, etc. FIFA reviews and then approves/rejects the application. The process took several months for my player. Not sure how it works for older (over 18) players (e.g. Sofia Huerta, Sydney LeRoux).

It seems that if one can show a blood connection they qualify and don’t have to wait 5 years. Looking at the evolution of the Home Nations Agreement, I think the 5 year requirement is only applicable to those with UK citizenship and NO blood ties to a particular nation.

The education clause

In February 2009, the Scottish FA's Gordon Smith put forward a proposal that would allow players educated in the FA's territory who otherwise had no blood connections to the nation to become eligible to represent the nation. The rule was ratified by FIFA in October 2009.[45]

In June 2010, FIFA approved a minor rewording of the criteria.[32] The introduction of the new clause allows a player to gain eligibility for a British national team if he receives five years of education in the territory of the relevant association:

d) He has engaged in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 within the territory of the relevant association.
— Home nations agreement

As a direct result of the clause change, England-born Andrew Driver became eligible to play for the Scotland national team in June 2012. Driver was initially only eligible to represent England's national team despite living in Scotland since the age of 11.[46] Andy Dorman, who had previously been ineligible for Wales despite living in Hawarden for most of life became eligible to represent Wales. He was called up in November 2009 and made his début for Wales on 23 May 2010 against Montenegro at the Stadion Gradski.[47]

The criteria for eligibility to represent a home nation is:

1. A Player who, under the terms of art. 5, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;c) One of his biological grandparents was born on the territory of the relevant Association;d) He has engaged in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 within the territory of the relevant association.
   — Home nations agreement

In July 2012, the Football Association of Wales confirmed that Swansea City F.C.'s Spanish defender Àngel Rangel is not eligible to represent Wales due to the agreement.[4

 

[vegasguy]

It seems that if one can show a blood connection they qualify and don’t have to wait 5 years. Looking at the evolution of the Home Nations Agreement, I think the 5 year requirement is only applicable to those with UK citizenship and NO blood ties to a particular nation.

The education clause

In February 2009, the Scottish FA's Gordon Smith put forward a proposal that would allow players educated in the FA's territory who otherwise had no blood connections to the nation to become eligible to represent the nation. The rule was ratified by FIFA in October 2009.[45]

In June 2010, FIFA approved a minor rewording of the criteria.[32] The introduction of the new clause allows a player to gain eligibility for a British national team if he receives five years of education in the territory of the relevant association:


As a direct result of the clause change, England-born Andrew Driver became eligible to play for the Scotland national team in June 2012. Driver was initially only eligible to represent England's national team despite living in Scotland since the age of 11.[46] Andy Dorman, who had previously been ineligible for Wales despite living in Hawarden for most of life became eligible to represent Wales. He was called up in November 2009 and made his début for Wales on 23 May 2010 against Montenegro at the Stadion Gradski.[47]

The criteria for eligibility to represent a home nation is:


In July 2012, the Football Association of Wales confirmed that Swansea City F.C.'s Spanish defender Àngel Rangel is not eligible to represent Wales due to the agreement.[4

You daughter is not being educated in an English territory. Grand parents will be determined of those of the player not any other persons. You have said you want to come here and learn and then you do not believe it when people give you facts.. you are great . Do you listen to Jimmy Hendrix or do you hear Jimmy Hendrix?

 

[MacDre]

You daughter is not being educated in an English territory. Grand parents will be determined of those of the player not any other persons. You have said you want to come here and learn and then you do not believe it when people give you facts.. you are great . Do you listen to Jimmy Hendrix or do you hear Jimmy Hendrix?

I believe what was stated. However, I want emphasize that every situation is different and fact specific. There have also been recent developments in UK caselaw so the analysis presented above is not close to being dispositive on the issue.

 

[dk_b]

I believe what was stated. However, I want emphasize that every situation is different and fact specific. There have also been recent developments in UK caselaw so the analysis presented above is not close to being dispositive on the issue.

do you mean cases with respect to citizenship, professional status or representing the UK (or one of the UK countries when they compete under their own flag)? If the latter, I can’t see how UK common law has any say over FIFA’s rules. If the first two, I can see it being relevant if someone wants to play for a pro club in the UK.

as a lawyer and parent of a kid with international aspirations, I’m curious about the legal landscape

 

[MacDre]

do you mean cases with respect to citizenship, professional status or representing the UK (or one of the UK countries when they compete under their own flag)? If the latter, I can’t see how UK common law has any say over FIFA’s rules. If the first two, I can see it being relevant if someone wants to play for a pro club in the UK.

as a lawyer and parent of a kid with international aspirations, I’m curious about the legal landscape

Caselaw regarding citizenship. I believe there was a recent case out of South Africa that recently made tons of people eligible under 4(c) of the British Nationality Act.
I find it highly unlikely that someone eligible under 4(c) wouldn’t be able to play for a UK team immediately.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/824429/registration-as-british-citizen-children-of-british-parents-v6.0ext.pdf

 

[vegasguy]

Caselaw regarding citizenship. I believe there was a recent case out of South Africa that recently made tons of people eligible under 4(c) of the British Nationality Act.
I find it highly unlikely that someone eligible under 4(c) wouldn’t be able to play for a UK team immediately.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/824429/registration-as-british-citizen-children-of-british-parents-v6.0ext.pdf

1st question.. Wasn't South Africa a protectorate of the Dutch and not the English? But pretty sure their native language sounds more Germanic.
2nd question.. Why is the law of citizen of a country take more precedent over FIFA Law in the world of soccer.

 

[MacDre]

1st question.. Wasn't South Africa a protectorate of the Dutch and not the English? But pretty sure their native language sounds more Germanic.
2nd question.. Why is the law of citizen of a country take more precedent over FIFA Law in the world of soccer.

No. They speak English in South Africa not Dutch.
Look at the last paragraph on the below document for the authority coach.

 

[espola]

1st question.. Wasn't South Africa a protectorate of the Dutch and not the English? But pretty sure their native language sounds more Germanic.
2nd question.. Why is the law of citizen of a country take more precedent over FIFA Law in the world of soccer.

Dutch rule over South Africa ended in 1806 when the British took advantage of the turmoil in Europe during the Napoleonic Wars Many of the remaining population of Dutch settlers and their descendants retreated into the wilderness where for a time they were independent, financed by gold and diamonds found there, until the Boer wars ended in 1902.

 

[MacDre]

do you mean cases with respect to citizenship, professional status or representing the UK (or one of the UK countries when they compete under their own flag)? If the latter, I can’t see how UK common law has any say over FIFA’s rules. If the first two, I can see it being relevant if someone wants to play for a pro club in the UK.

as a lawyer and parent of a kid with international aspirations, I’m curious about the legal landscape

Here’s the case:

IN PETITION OF SHELLEY ELIZABETH ROMEIN FOR JUDICIAL REVIEW OF THE DECISION OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT

 

[msoccerm]

They speak a lot of languages in SA besides English: Afrikaans, Zulu and Xhosa...

My husband and I are different nationalities and we all have the nationality of the country we live in - which is a top 10 FIFA women's team. She was required by FIFA in 2018 to show proof of education in that country for 5 years. Schools had to write letters.

 

[MacDre]

They speak a lot of languages in SA besides English: Afrikaans, Zulu and Xhosa...

My husband and I are different nationalities and we all have the nationality of the country we live in - which is a top 10 FIFA women's team. She was required by FIFA in 2018 to show proof of education in that country for 5 years. Schools had to write letters.

Why didn’t she qualify under the parent/grandparent provision?

 

[dk_b]

Here’s the case:

IN PETITION OF SHELLEY ELIZABETH ROMEIN FOR JUDICIAL REVIEW OF THE DECISION OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT

But this has to do solely with citizenship, right? I think FIFA has its own rules for eligibility in representing a particular country - citizenship alone is not always sufficient

 

[MacDre]

But this has to do solely with citizenship, right? I think FIFA has its own rules for eligibility in representing a particular country - citizenship alone is not always sufficient

I get it...the arguments have to be made. Here, you have a group of people that could’ve lived anywhere in the UK “but for” institutionalized sexism. I think for FIFA to deny a person that qualifies under 4(c) is a continuation of the institutionalized sexism and a violation of international law.

 

[MacDre]

But this has to do solely with citizenship, right? I think FIFA has its own rules for eligibility in representing a particular country - citizenship alone is not always sufficient

I also think the Association’s have discretion to modify the home nations agreement (see bold section below) Since the Associations are bound by international law and the highest court in the UK, how could the Association’s legally deny an applicant under 4(c) without violating the law?

16 Nationality entitling players
to represent more than one Association

1 A Player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.

2 Regardless of par. 1 above, Associations sharing a common nationality may make an agreement under which item (d) of par. 1 of this article is deleted completely or amended to specify a longer time limit. Such agreements shall be lodged with and approved by the Executive Committee.

 

[msoccerm]

Why didn’t she qualify under the parent/grandparent provision?

We moved here for work and after a few years applied for the nationality. No relatives in either my family or my husband's had this country's nationality.

I am not sure why my daughter was required to show proof of living in our country for 5 years instead of 2. Maybe rules are different for minors or because she has 3 nationalities. Or maybe it was the requirement of our country's association (e.g. concacaf, uefa, afc).

 

[msoccerm]

At this point a British passport is a EU passport which opens doors to playing or working in Europe. If your kid is eligible I'd jump on that quick. It might also open doors for Commonwealth countries e.g. Australia or Canada.

 

[vegasguy]

At this point a British passport is a EU passport which opens doors to playing or working in Europe. If your kid is eligible I'd jump on that quick.

Why would @MacDre do that. He daughter is a pro in Mex.

I still do not understand how MacDre thinks great-grandparents qualify under fifa and how Nova Scotia fits into anything.

 

[MacDre]

Why would @MacDre do that. He daughter is a pro in Mex.

I still do not understand how MacDre thinks great-grandparents qualify under fifa and how Nova Scotia fits into anything.

Because MacDre is a International Multicultural Mac capable of campaigning straight laced G-A-M-E on multiple continents. Come on coach, wake your game up and learn about how Mac’s do it up in the Bay!
I also thought we all agreed that my kid went experimental and not pro.

I guess what I’m saying is that there have been recent changes in the law that will require another modification to the Home Nations Agreement or in the alternative adopting a broad definition of grandparent to include great grandparents. In the alternative, my kid would also qualify to represent any UK team of her choice since her citizenship is through the Bahamas and the Bahamas is no longer part of the UK but still under Queen Elizabeth.

In regards to Nova Scotia, I have not looked into to it but my wife has close family ties. However, if she can get Canadian citizenship FIFA only has a 2 year residency requirement.

 

[JumboJack]

Just to be clear... This thread has evolved into the hypothetical discussion of a 12 year old kids eligibility for any number of national soccer teams, right?

 

[MacDre]

Just to be clear... This thread has evolved into the hypothetical discussion of a 12 year old kids eligibility for any number of national soccer teams, right?

Uh, no. I would consider it a discussion for all interested in alternative approaches to college sports and the US YNT. So, the information discussed here is another example as to why D1 soccer is under threat. There are several Latinos and folks of British descent that could benefit from the information discussed on this thread.
I love haters!

 

[JumboJack]

Uh, no. I would consider it a discussion for all interested in alternative approaches to college sports and the US YNT. So, the information discussed here is another example as to why D1 soccer is under threat. There are several Latinos and folks of British descent that could benefit from the information discussed on this thread.
I love haters!

Under threat of nobody wanting to play collage soccer so they can all play for a national team.... Got'cha!