Club Cost - Refunds

;) Sunil Illuminati; another one hiding behind a pseudonym.

If you bothered to read my reply to the OP, I made it clear that we had pushed back payment dues from May to August and that they will be pushed back again or canceled completely IF we don’t have a fall season.

Given your expert knowledge, you will no doubt be aware that camps ARE allowed in LA County. We are complying with all camp guidelines.

What is your club doing? We all have different setups and agendas so it’s interesting to hear from others.
Most appreciate your well reasoned input...Sunil Illuminati is a knob, other than driving by shooting his pop-gun, he's basically insignificant, contributing nothing of value...not worth a second of polishing.
 
Most appreciate your well reasoned input...Sunil Illuminati is a knob, other than driving by shooting his pop-gun, he's basically insignificant, contributing nothing of value...not worth a second of polishing.
Something we agree on.
 
Is your school giving you refunds on your taxes or tuition (private)? I bet not. The clubs, much like the schools, are doing the maximum that they are allowed. They are not the ones holding back. Call Comrade Newsom
Clubs offered contracts and charged for a Fall soccer season service. No Fall season=no service=refunds
 
Some perspective from an independent club with ~150 girls... Shortly before the shutdown, we paid for our next field permit period; we also paid for our insurance. So that money is spent, and while the permit fees should be refunded (eventually, but no one is refunding money quickly right now), we anticipate higher field costs once we're allowed to play again, because cities and school systems are in desperate financial shape. So at some point this calendar year we're going to need even more money to cover that.

At the same time, we have a coaching staff who we think highly of, who we have (in some cases) spent years training in to our system and philosophy. Not only do we like them personally and want to stick by them during a challenging time, they would be difficult, and expensive, to replace. So we need money to pay them -- to help keep them in their homes so we can keep them in the club.

Additionally, most of the standard fundraising that clubs do (like raffles) are pretty impractical right now. And the number of families requiring financial assistance at our club (as at all clubs, probably) is increasing.

So we're asking for dues in order to, essentially, run in place: to keep our staff and be ready to pay for fields as soon as we're allowed to. It's kind of like the remote training we're doing -- it's meant to keep everyone reasonably fit and connected, to "run in place," until they can play together again. Dues are an investment we're asking families to make in the club because they believe in what we're doing and want to support it, and because they want to make sure their daughter has her spot.

That doesn't sound unreasonable from the club side; I get that the idea of spending money for a service when you're not receiving the full service feels weird, but these are weird times. If you believe in your club and its coaches and want it to continue, it probably can't run in place without dues coming in.

I can't speak for club's with larger endowments; but one thing we've seen this year is how close to the edge a lot of companies have been operating, no matter how secure they looked.

And just so there's no confusion: every club needs to make its own choices, based on its own situation. We're in the middle of LA with limited field access and incredibly high permit costs; other clubs don't have that issue. We can't afford to just cancel club dues. But we're also committed to access, so our families pay what they can afford if it's not the full rate; as long as everyone pays something.

There's no playbook for this, but I think we're all trying to figure out how to be as fair to our families as possible while making sure our clubs come out of this the way they went in. I would just say that it's unlikely any clubs are "getting rich" right now.
 
Some perspective from an independent club with ~150 girls... Shortly before the shutdown, we paid for our next field permit period; we also paid for our insurance. So that money is spent, and while the permit fees should be refunded (eventually, but no one is refunding money quickly right now), we anticipate higher field costs once we're allowed to play again, because cities and school systems are in desperate financial shape. So at some point this calendar year we're going to need even more money to cover that.

At the same time, we have a coaching staff who we think highly of, who we have (in some cases) spent years training in to our system and philosophy. Not only do we like them personally and want to stick by them during a challenging time, they would be difficult, and expensive, to replace. So we need money to pay them -- to help keep them in their homes so we can keep them in the club.

Additionally, most of the standard fundraising that clubs do (like raffles) are pretty impractical right now. And the number of families requiring financial assistance at our club (as at all clubs, probably) is increasing.

So we're asking for dues in order to, essentially, run in place: to keep our staff and be ready to pay for fields as soon as we're allowed to. It's kind of like the remote training we're doing -- it's meant to keep everyone reasonably fit and connected, to "run in place," until they can play together again. Dues are an investment we're asking families to make in the club because they believe in what we're doing and want to support it, and because they want to make sure their daughter has her spot.

That doesn't sound unreasonable from the club side; I get that the idea of spending money for a service when you're not receiving the full service feels weird, but these are weird times. If you believe in your club and its coaches and want it to continue, it probably can't run in place without dues coming in.

I can't speak for club's with larger endowments; but one thing we've seen this year is how close to the edge a lot of companies have been operating, no matter how secure they looked.

And just so there's no confusion: every club needs to make its own choices, based on its own situation. We're in the middle of LA with limited field access and incredibly high permit costs; other clubs don't have that issue. We can't afford to just cancel club dues. But we're also committed to access, so our families pay what they can afford if it's not the full rate; as long as everyone pays something.

There's no playbook for this, but I think we're all trying to figure out how to be as fair to our families as possible while making sure our clubs come out of this the way they went in. I would just say that it's unlikely any clubs are "getting rich" right now.
Great perspective; and this is why every club and situation is different, just like you touched on in your message. You make extremely good points with reference to field costs and coach retention among other things; clearly yours is a well-run club (and that is reflected on the field and via your reputation which is very good).

For us, after initially moving back our payment dates from May to August, this week we are planning to indefinitely suspend club dues for our team parents until we know we are getting back on the field (basically, we won't be asking for anything until it is confirmed we will be fully practicing and playing again). We have other plans to support coaches in the meantime and again, that's just our choice and way of doing things during these uncertain, somewhat crazy times.
 
Some perspective from an independent club with ~150 girls... Shortly before the shutdown, we paid for our next field permit period; we also paid for our insurance. So that money is spent, and while the permit fees should be refunded (eventually, but no one is refunding money quickly right now), we anticipate higher field costs once we're allowed to play again, because cities and school systems are in desperate financial shape. So at some point this calendar year we're going to need even more money to cover that.

At the same time, we have a coaching staff who we think highly of, who we have (in some cases) spent years training in to our system and philosophy. Not only do we like them personally and want to stick by them during a challenging time, they would be difficult, and expensive, to replace. So we need money to pay them -- to help keep them in their homes so we can keep them in the club.

Additionally, most of the standard fundraising that clubs do (like raffles) are pretty impractical right now. And the number of families requiring financial assistance at our club (as at all clubs, probably) is increasing.

So we're asking for dues in order to, essentially, run in place: to keep our staff and be ready to pay for fields as soon as we're allowed to. It's kind of like the remote training we're doing -- it's meant to keep everyone reasonably fit and connected, to "run in place," until they can play together again. Dues are an investment we're asking families to make in the club because they believe in what we're doing and want to support it, and because they want to make sure their daughter has her spot.

That doesn't sound unreasonable from the club side; I get that the idea of spending money for a service when you're not receiving the full service feels weird, but these are weird times. If you believe in your club and its coaches and want it to continue, it probably can't run in place without dues coming in.

I can't speak for club's with larger endowments; but one thing we've seen this year is how close to the edge a lot of companies have been operating, no matter how secure they looked.

And just so there's no confusion: every club needs to make its own choices, based on its own situation. We're in the middle of LA with limited field access and incredibly high permit costs; other clubs don't have that issue. We can't afford to just cancel club dues. But we're also committed to access, so our families pay what they can afford if it's not the full rate; as long as everyone pays something.

There's no playbook for this, but I think we're all trying to figure out how to be as fair to our families as possible while making sure our clubs come out of this the way they went in. I would just say that it's unlikely any clubs are "getting rich" right now.
@KJR - good insight. Did your club receive PPP? I think clubs should be transparent with their families whether they received PPP $. On another thread, there's discussion re Albion and Legends receiving $350K - $1MM and Blues, Surf, etc. receiving up to $350K. If families know the club didn't receive PPP, I think they would be much more likely and content paying dues to support the club, especially those that are not double-dipping from taxpayers AND their soccer families.
 
Some perspective from an independent club with ~150 girls... Shortly before the shutdown, we paid for our next field permit period; we also paid for our insurance. So that money is spent, and while the permit fees should be refunded (eventually, but no one is refunding money quickly right now), we anticipate higher field costs once we're allowed to play again, because cities and school systems are in desperate financial shape. So at some point this calendar year we're going to need even more money to cover that.

At the same time, we have a coaching staff who we think highly of, who we have (in some cases) spent years training in to our system and philosophy. Not only do we like them personally and want to stick by them during a challenging time, they would be difficult, and expensive, to replace. So we need money to pay them -- to help keep them in their homes so we can keep them in the club.

Additionally, most of the standard fundraising that clubs do (like raffles) are pretty impractical right now. And the number of families requiring financial assistance at our club (as at all clubs, probably) is increasing.

So we're asking for dues in order to, essentially, run in place: to keep our staff and be ready to pay for fields as soon as we're allowed to. It's kind of like the remote training we're doing -- it's meant to keep everyone reasonably fit and connected, to "run in place," until they can play together again. Dues are an investment we're asking families to make in the club because they believe in what we're doing and want to support it, and because they want to make sure their daughter has her spot.

That doesn't sound unreasonable from the club side; I get that the idea of spending money for a service when you're not receiving the full service feels weird, but these are weird times. If you believe in your club and its coaches and want it to continue, it probably can't run in place without dues coming in.

I can't speak for club's with larger endowments; but one thing we've seen this year is how close to the edge a lot of companies have been operating, no matter how secure they looked.

And just so there's no confusion: every club needs to make its own choices, based on its own situation. We're in the middle of LA with limited field access and incredibly high permit costs; other clubs don't have that issue. We can't afford to just cancel club dues. But we're also committed to access, so our families pay what they can afford if it's not the full rate; as long as everyone pays something.

There's no playbook for this, but I think we're all trying to figure out how to be as fair to our families as possible while making sure our clubs come out of this the way they went in. I would just say that it's unlikely any clubs are "getting rich" right now.
Please advise if your club received PPP and payed coaches using said PPP?
 
Great perspective; and this is why every club and situation is different, just like you touched on in your message. You make extremely good points with reference to field costs and coach retention among other things; clearly yours is a well-run club (and that is reflected on the field and via your reputation which is very good).

For us, after initially moving back our payment dates from May to August, this week we are planning to indefinitely suspend club dues for our team parents until we know we are getting back on the field (basically, we won't be asking for anything until it is confirmed we will be fully practicing and playing again). We have other plans to support coaches in the meantime and again, that's just our choice and way of doing things during these uncertain, somewhat crazy times.
Same question as above...
Please advise if your club received PPP and payed coaches using said PPP?
 
Same question as above...
Please advise if your club received PPP and payed coaches using said PPP?
Fair question and I agree with you that clubs should be transparent about it. No, I mentioned this already earlier in the thread I believe; we received no PPP or financial help. While not surprised to hear that some might be double-dipping, my guess is that the majority of clubs are honest enough not to do this.

At risk of virtue signaling; I'll say straight up that we are extremely transparent and open about everything with our parents, regardless of how it makes us look. When we fuck up, we just admit it. Because it doesn't happen often and we're honest when it does, forgiveness is easier to come by. Along with the coaching aspect of course, this transparent approach has allowed us to establish a solid reputation in a short time.

IMO transparency and honesty is the best option for any business or organization in the long run, even if it sometimes hurts you in the short term. Each to their own; in the end we all generally reap what we sow.

Shut up now Paul, people don't want to hear you preaching :D
 
@KJR - good insight. Did your club receive PPP? I think clubs should be transparent with their families whether they received PPP $. On another thread, there's discussion re Albion and Legends receiving $350K - $1MM and Blues, Surf, etc. receiving up to $350K. If families know the club didn't receive PPP, I think they would be much more likely and content paying dues to support the club, especially those that are not double-dipping from taxpayers AND their soccer families.
I don't know the details of other clubs' finances, but I completely agree that they should be transparent with their families re: federal assistance they've received. We didn't apply for (or receive) any PPP.
 
Searched the SBA database to find PPP loan amounts... Just downloaded the $150k and over. Here's the socal list of PPP funds I was able to locate.
A couple I dug for by their address as their club name is not current.

Downloadable CSV doc available here: https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program


Amount ReceivedNameNotesAddress CityStateZip
d $350,000-1 millionAMERICAN YOUTH SOCCER ORGANIZATION19750 S. VERMONT AVE SUITE 200TORRANCECA
90502​
c $1-2 millionAMERICAN SOCCER COMPANY, INCORPORATED726 E. ANAHEIM STWILMINGTONCA
90744​
d $350,000-1 millionINLAND YOUTH SOCCER EDUCATION PROGRAMaka Legends (same address)13851 ROSWELL AVECHINOCA
91710​
d $350,000-1 millionCARLSBAD UNITED FCaka City SC (same address)5375 AVENIDA ENCINAS SUITE CCARLSBADCA
92008​
d $350,000-1 millionPENINSULA SOCCER LEAGUE525 Bacon StSAN DIEGOCA
92107​
e $150,000-350,000SAN DIEGO LOYAL SOCCER CLUB LLC12264 EL CAMINO REAL #207SAN DIEGOCA
92130​
e $150,000-350,000SAN DIEGO SURF SOCCER3525 DEL MAR HEIGHTS RD Suite 892SAN DIEGOCA
92130​
e $150,000-350,000U K INTERNATIONAL SOCCER CAMPS INC525 AMIGOS DR STE 1REDLANDSCA
92373​
d $350,000-1 millionOC PROFESSIONAL SOCCER LLC20 FAIRBANKSIRVINECA
92618​
e $150,000-350,000SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA BLUES SOCCER CLUB IN26941 CABOT RD STE 131LAGUNA HILLSCA
92653​
e $150,000-350,000IRA HERMANN, CLV, CHFC4695 MACARTHUR CT 1000NEWPORT BEACHCA
92660​
d $350,000-1 millionCALIFORNIA STATE SOCCER ASSOCIATION1029 S. Placentia AveFULLERTONCA
92831​
 
Searched the SBA database to find PPP loan amounts... Just downloaded the $150k and over. Here's the socal list of PPP funds I was able to locate.
A couple I dug for by their address as their club name is not current.

Downloadable CSV doc available here: https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program


Amount ReceivedNameNotesAddressCityStateZip
d $350,000-1 millionAMERICAN YOUTH SOCCER ORGANIZATION19750 S. VERMONT AVE SUITE 200TORRANCECA
90502​
c $1-2 millionAMERICAN SOCCER COMPANY, INCORPORATED726 E. ANAHEIM STWILMINGTONCA
90744​
d $350,000-1 millionINLAND YOUTH SOCCER EDUCATION PROGRAMaka Legends (same address)13851 ROSWELL AVECHINOCA
91710​
d $350,000-1 millionCARLSBAD UNITED FCaka City SC (same address)5375 AVENIDA ENCINAS SUITE CCARLSBADCA
92008​
d $350,000-1 millionPENINSULA SOCCER LEAGUE525 Bacon StSAN DIEGOCA
92107​
e $150,000-350,000SAN DIEGO LOYAL SOCCER CLUB LLC12264 EL CAMINO REAL #207SAN DIEGOCA
92130​
e $150,000-350,000SAN DIEGO SURF SOCCER3525 DEL MAR HEIGHTS RD Suite 892SAN DIEGOCA
92130​
e $150,000-350,000U K INTERNATIONAL SOCCER CAMPS INC525 AMIGOS DR STE 1REDLANDSCA
92373​
d $350,000-1 millionOC PROFESSIONAL SOCCER LLC20 FAIRBANKSIRVINECA
92618​
e $150,000-350,000SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA BLUES SOCCER CLUB IN26941 CABOT RD STE 131LAGUNA HILLSCA
92653​
e $150,000-350,000IRA HERMANN, CLV, CHFC4695 MACARTHUR CT 1000NEWPORT BEACHCA
92660​
d $350,000-1 millionCALIFORNIA STATE SOCCER ASSOCIATION1029 S. Placentia AveFULLERTONCA
92831​

Calsouth might be the most egregious one of them all. Double and triple dipping while all the taxpayers are footing the bill for all there "employees" who have done what for the last 5 months?

Talk about a racket, they take your registration fees, CRL $$, schedule fields that don't have, tell you at the last minute there canceling, insist on still keeping 25% for national cup or state cup that didn't play, didn't give out refunds for many months, etc meanwhile the fat cats are living large doing nothing but some smug updates about a fifa tournaments and saying things aren't fair.
 
I'm happy to see soccer clubs receiving PPP money. That was what it was for, that is smart business practices in securing the funding for their coaches. Good on them. But, clubs that received the funds, and are still charging families for club fees and skills camps... that's double dipping! Not cool!
 
I'm happy to see soccer clubs receiving PPP money. That was what it was for, that is smart business practices in securing the funding for their coaches. Good on them. But, clubs that received the funds, and are still charging families for club fees and skills camps... that's double dipping! Not cool!

That seems reasonable but are coaches employees or IC's? Do most really benefit from the 60% or whatever it's is the minimum that has to be used to pay employees?

What's somewhat eye opening is seeing leagues and CS also in on the gravy train.

For example let's say your club gets the up to $1million, they plan in a league that gets the $1 million and is a member of Cal South that gets their million also. Many $millions$ later what are the taxpayers getting for our money?

Almost seems like a multi-level marketing pyramid kind of scheme so shouldn't refunds or something be given back to the parents or the taxpayers in some form?
 
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