Climate and Weather

[dad4]

I fall into more the Bjorn Lomberg camp.

He believes the earth is warming and humans are certainly part of that.

He likes and advocates working on getting cleaner so to speak. He also believes the billions we waste on many green energy boondoggles would be better off spent on ensuring or helping billions get clean water and reliable energy. Can save countless lives doing that. We waste money on pie of the sky stuff that advocates will save lives in a hundred years...when we should be spending now to help billions now in terribly impoverished conditions. He also believes we are resilient enough to adapt to a warmer planet with current and future technical prowess.

“part of it”? What other major cause do you see? The rate of change is orders of magnitude faster than at any time on record.

If the earth typically changed temperature by one degree Celsius within a hundred years or so, don’t you think it would show up in the geologic record?

Happy to have an honest discussion about cost benefit analysis for various proposed solutions. They aren’t all good. Some are even counterproductive.

But first we need to agree about the basic facts. And that doesn’t include weasel words like “part of it”.

Either you can face the fact that we are significantly raising global temperatures, or you can’t. But don’t waste time saying we are “part of it”, as though 70% of the problem is a sudden surge in sun spots.

 

[Grace T.]

Didn't I tell you about the feet!?

All of that flew over the Meat Beaters head...

It’s all about the feet!!!!

the feet is a metaphor for wind and solar.

“part of it”? What other major cause do you see? The rate of change is orders of magnitude faster than at any time on record.

If the earth typically changed temperature by one degree Celsius within a hundred years or so, don’t you think it would show up in the geologic record?

Happy to have an honest discussion about cost benefit analysis for various proposed solutions. They aren’t all good. Some are even counterproductive.

But first we need to agree about the basic facts. And that doesn’t include weasel words like “part of it”.

Either you can face the fact that we are significantly raising global temperatures, or you can’t. But don’t waste time saying we are “part of it”, as though 70% of the problem is a sudden surge in sun spots.

until 1850 portions of the planet have been in a little ice age. There’s 1 spike that takes place from 1859-1870 but that predates industrialization in all countries except portions of the eastern us and in England. Where the substantial spike in temperature took place start around the year 2000. Notably this is several decades after the industrialization in the west. So what happened during this time period in the decades leading before 2000? If you want to point at elephants in the room?

because until you accept the underlying reality of where the problem is, you are doing the exact same thing. Physician heel thyself. Particularly funny given you are so anti ccp.

 

[Desert Hound]

part of it”? What other major cause do you see? The rate of change is orders of magnitude faster than at any time on record.

If the earth typically changed temperature by one degree Celsius within a hundred years or so, don’t you think it would show up in the geologic record?

The earth has always changed. 11k yrs ago the Sahara was rolling grasslands.

We find trees (remains) hundreds of miles north of the current tree line in Canada.

We don't have the tools to determine how fast the climate changed millions of yrs ago. The geologic record isn't close to that precise that far back.

So when you say the earth CO2 level has never changed so fast that is a guess or your opinion.

You have bought on to a theory. One that is just that a theory. That theory has a range of outcomes ranging from basically nothing to catastrophic warming. For some reason you and the people pushing an agenda focus only on one of many possibilities and then advocate wholesale change to combat that one possible outcome.

 

[Ellejustus]

The earth has always changed. 11k yrs ago the Sahara was rolling grasslands.

We find trees (remains) hundreds of miles north of the current tree line in Canada.

We don't have the tools to determine how fast the climate changed millions of yrs ago. The geologic record isn't close to that precise that far back.

So when you say the earth CO2 level has never changed so fast that is a guess or your opinion.

You have bought on to a theory. One that is just that a theory. That theory has a range of outcomes ranging from basically nothing to catastrophic warming. For some reason you and the people pushing an agenda focus only on one of many possibilities and then advocate wholesale change to combat that one possible outcome.

I know folks like Dad that make money on fear based BS.

 

[Ellejustus]

RIP Steve

 

[Desert Hound]

A new study published in the scientific peer-reviewed journal, Climate, by 37 researchers from 18 countries suggests that current estimates of global warming are contaminated by urban warming biases.

The study also suggests that the solar activity estimates considered in the most recent reports by the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimated the role of the Sun in global warming since the 19th century.

It is well-known that cities are warmer than the surrounding countryside. While urban areas only account for less than 4% of the global land surface, many of the weather stations used for calculating global temperatures are located in urban areas. For this reason, some scientists have been concerned that the current global warming estimates may have been contaminated by urban heat island effects. In their latest report, the IPCC estimated that urban warming accounted for less than 10% of global warming. However, this new study suggests that urban warming might account for up to 40% of the warming since 1850.

 

[Desert Hound]

The study also found that the IPCC’s chosen estimate of solar activity appeared to have prematurely ruled out a substantial role for the Sun in the observed warming.

When the authors analysed the temperature data only using the IPCC’s solar dataset, they could not explain any of the warming since the mid-20th century. That is, they replicated the IPCC’s iconic finding that global warming is mostly human-caused. However, when the authors repeated the analysis using a different estimate of solar activity – one that is often used by the scientific community – they found that most of the warming and cooling trends of the rural data could actually be explained in terms of changing solar activity.

 

[Desert Hound]

The lead author of the study, Dr. Willie Soon, of the Center for Environmental Research and Earth Sciences (CERES-Science.com) described the implications of their findings,

“For many years, the general public has been assuming that the science on climate change is settled. This new study shows that this is not the case.”

Another author of the study, Prof. Ana Elias, the Director of the Laboratorio de Ionosfera, Atmósfera Neutra y Magnetosfera (LIANM) at the Universidad Nacional de Tucumán, Argentina, explained:

“This analysis opens the door to a proper scientific investigation into the causes of climate change.”

 

[Desert Hound]

Why did I post the above?

To point out the theory is just that.

There are so many things they don't understand.

 

[Ellejustus]

Why did I post the above?

To point out the theory is just that.

There are so many things they don't understand.

Thanks Hound.

I'll take Climate & Weather for $500 please

 

[dad4]

The earth has always changed. 11k yrs ago the Sahara was rolling grasslands.

We find trees (remains) hundreds of miles north of the current tree line in Canada.

We don't have the tools to determine how fast the climate changed millions of yrs ago. The geologic record isn't close to that precise that far back.

So when you say the earth CO2 level has never changed so fast that is a guess or your opinion.

You have bought on to a theory. One that is just that a theory. That theory has a range of outcomes ranging from basically nothing to catastrophic warming. For some reason you and the people pushing an agenda focus only on one of many possibilities and then advocate wholesale change to combat that one possible outcome.

Do a little research before using Sahara desertification as an example of non-anthropogenic climate change.

It's not a coincidence that we domesticated sheep just before the change started. We have a desert there because our ancestors grazed the living shit out of it.

If you want a second example, you can point to the extinction of most North American megafauna. It works about as well. All of them just up and died right about the same time people showed up with spears. Complete coincidence, I guess.

 

[Multi Sport]

If you want a second example, you can point to the extinction of most North American megafauna. It works about as well. All of them just up and died right about the same time people showed up with spears. Complete coincidence, I guess.

So tell me.. how many people with spears showed up to do this.

 

[Multi Sport]

I have been articulating my position for years (you can look it up). It gets old after a while.

But as a friend of mine once said about a supposedly "foolproof" design -- never underestimate the persistence of fools.

He must have been talking about you..

EVERYONE knows your tactics now..and you're correct. It gets old.

 

[watfly]

That theory has a range of outcomes ranging from basically nothing to catastrophic warming. For some reason you and the people pushing an agenda focus only on one of many possibilities and then advocate wholesale change to combat that one possible outcome.

This.

And we've seen most (all?) catastrophic predictions that were predicted to happen in the last decade, not happen. So skepticism, rightly or wrongly, grows. If you believe the catastrophic predictions the "green new deal" type measures are akin to "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic". On the flip side, if the global warming outcomes are less severe, the green measures just raise the cost of products, impact quality of life, but most critically make the US much more vulnerable geo-politically.

 

[dad4]

This.

And we've seen most (all?) catastrophic predictions that were predicted to happen in the last decade, not happen. So skepticism, rightly or wrongly, grows. If you believe the catastrophic predictions the "green new deal" type measures are akin to "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic". On the flip side, if the global warming outcomes are less severe, the green measures just raise the cost of products, impact quality of life, but most critically make the US much more vulnerable geo-politically.

If you are looking only at the most catastrophic projections, you are deliberately listening to the least trustworthy sources.

That’s like trying to understand mainstream conservatism by reading nothing but Q. Yeah, there are loons out there. But there are also rational voices.

The middle of the road estimates are bad enough. You don’t need to seek out the “we’re all gonna die” crowd.

 

[dad4]

So tell me.. how many people with spears showed up to do this.

Look it up. It’s surprisingly small. Around 200-300.

But they had LOTS if kids and grandkids.

DNA sequences suggest 250 people made up original Native American founding population

The latest news and information for the University of Kansas.

news.ku.edu

Within a few thousand years, there were enough people to kill off the dire wolves, wooly mammoths, giant sloths, and most of the other large land mammals. Just spears. No one had invented a bow yet.

Not definitive. Other researchers have said it was multiple waves of migration, which would imply larger numbers.

 

[watfly]

If you are looking only at the most catastrophic projections, you are deliberately listening to the least trustworthy sources.

That’s like trying to understand mainstream conservatism by reading nothing but Q. Yeah, there are loons out there. But there are also rational voices.

The middle of the road estimates are bad enough. You don’t need to seek out the “we’re all gonna die” crowd.

Well the catastrophic predictors get the biggest megaphone and drive policy. You're a trust the experts guy, and its your science experts that are predicting these catastrophes. So how do you decipher what science to believe? It is a huge credibility issue that is only getting worse. I'm glad you acknowledge that MSM is the least trustworthy source. Curious, where do I find Q reading material, other than reading Crush's posts?

Like I've mentioned before, if middle of road estimates are 900 inches of snow at Alta and Dorado in the kelp beds, I'm all for global warming.

 

[Ellejustus]

Well the catastrophic predictors get the biggest megaphone and drive policy. You're a trust the experts guy, and its your science experts that are predicting these catastrophes. So how do you decipher what science to believe? It is a huge credibility issue that is only getting worse. I'm glad you acknowledge that MSM is the least trustworthy source. Curious, where do I find Q reading material, other than reading Crush's posts?

Like I've mentioned before, if middle of road estimates are 900 inches of snow at Alta and Dorado in the kelp beds, I'm all for global warming.

Crush say's hi by the way. He might just have to come back and finish what he started with Q material. EJ is well versed as well with Q and President Trump. Study out "Devolution" watty. Trump sign many and I mean many PEADS and EOs up to the 2020 election in case we had election interference from foreign and domestic enemies, who paid people to cheat and lie and help destroy our beautiful Republic. I love math watty and I can say 100% the math with Q drops the last 5 years is mathematically impossible. 5 years ago a Q drop was interesting with what is going on today. Q is a Military OP. We caught them all watty, red handed, with the jewels in their hands as they tried to do the Grab & Go with our lives. These are nasty people. Ruthless, heartless and brainless.

 

[Ellejustus]

@watfly watch this quick video. Slow it down. The clues are in the video. When Trump went to the Vatican, word on the street he took all the gold with him. They di naughty things and they had to pay a penalty. Look at the women dressed like it was a funeral. All this happened in President Trumps first term, let that sink in. What's going on right now is trying wake up the sheep. Joe Rogan said the strongest and bravest people on earth right now are those who have gone through hell and came out stronger from hell. 2017 was the year for me to start my journey in hell. It all started on the 91 frwy with long drives to the great OC to make serious coin. Life changing coin watty so I could sit on my fence nicely. Well, life called me to experience hell on earth bro to make me a stronger man. I think I'm out of hell now. Many are now starting their journey through hell and I'm here to help anyone with Q's. Crush loves you and so do I.

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[watfly]

Like I've mentioned before, if middle of road estimates are 900 inches of snow at Alta and Dorado in the kelp beds, I'm all for global warming.

and a few inches of snow at Snowbird yesterday.