CIF decision

wait until track athletes or baseball players will not chose soccer and all ECNL coaches (except ones coaching in private schools) will tell their players to not play HS
 
Paul Spacey said:
It's always wise to have a plan of action but let's not get carried away with too much planning or worrying about club vs HS just yet. We have no idea what is going to happen in the coming months and despite any organization or governing body laying out an 'action plan', it's all just hypothetical for now.

You would hope that coaches and administrators from clubs and high schools will be able to work together sensibly with the absolute priority being the safety and fitness (specifically, avoiding injuries) of athletes. Whether this will actually happen if/when the time comes is another story.

As each day passes, it seems clearer than any type of club soccer season is going to be difficult unless things change/improve fairly quickly. Without sending yet another thread down a political route, my feeling is that nothing is going to change until at least after the election anyway; this whole situation has become way too political for people to sit around a table (or on zoom) and figure out the best solution for young athletes and students.
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I can see a possibility where clubs start practicing and playing January or so, and once HS practices and games start in March club soccer activity would be limited to weekend tournaments scheduled around HS Section and Region tournaments. There will inevitably be some friction, and I have no way to predict how every coach/player/parent conflict will be resolved. I hope that few will take the "prioritize play for us or be cut" attitude - this is not a permanent situation.
 
I know there are a number of Orange County HS soccer refs that also work lacrosse. With the two seasons now running simultaneously referee availability may pose a challenge to assigners needing to fill all the game slots. Also, early spring season HS tournament games on Saturdays and club soccer will be competing for referee assignments if the fall club season is moved to spring.

I think spring club soccer will also have significant challenges finding field permits for practices and games given the increased use of high school facilities.
 
Coaches. Refs. Permits. Fields. Boards. Egos.

Balancing these things is hard enough during a 'normal' season so it's tough to see how it will possibly work with multiple sports (and hs/club) condensed into the same time frame. Add $'s into the mix and suddenly it seems like an almost impossible situation.

Like I said, it's hypothetical right now but realistically it looks difficult (even being optimistic and positive) to see how this plays out without ensuing chaos and injuries all over the place. Maybe all of us will take some time over the coming months to figure out how we can truly work together for the benefit of our athletes (in all sports) moving forward into the future; often you need a significant issue/event to push or force reflection and change.
 
Imagine all of those ECNL clubs thinking "Sweet!! WE can now get our hands on those DA players we've been drooling over. We can get them excited because they can also play high school now."
And today they are thinking "SH&T. How am I going to continue to coach HS and work for this ECNL club?"
 
twoclubpapa said:
I know there are a number of Orange County HS soccer refs that also work lacrosse. With the two seasons now running simultaneously referee availability may pose a challenge to assigners needing to fill all the game slots. Also, early spring season HS tournament games on Saturdays and club soccer will be competing for referee assignments if the fall club season is moved to spring.

I think spring club soccer will also have significant challenges finding field permits for practices and games given the increased use of high school facilities.
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I don't think soccer and lacrosse will have any conflicts for refs since they can't be scheduled at the same time. It will have to be one after another, so all those dual sports refs will be happy to do both.
 
Keep in mind that Spring high school soccer is the norm for about half the country (only 6 states (I think; it may be 5) play in the winter and the balance in fall - and they will be facing similar issues) so ECNL and other leagues/platforms already deal with winter club scheduling. I would HOPE that club soccer in CA would simply move the traditional HS break from winter to spring.

Having the kids play both HS and club simultaneously is idiocy. No high level soccer would play that volume of games (4 or 5 per week) for a 2 to 3 month period. The fatigue of overused hamstrings put ACLs at an even greater risk of tears. I understand the "why" behind CIF's policy but I do hope smart people from the club scene are working on a schedule that does not put the kids at increased risk.
 
dk_b said:
Keep in mind that Spring high school soccer is the norm for about half the country (only 6 states (I think; it may be 5) play in the winter and the balance in fall - and they will be facing similar issues) so ECNL and other leagues/platforms already deal with winter club scheduling. I would HOPE that club soccer in CA would simply move the traditional HS break from winter to spring.

Having the kids play both HS and club simultaneously is idiocy. No high level soccer would play that volume of games (4 or 5 per week) for a 2 to 3 month period. The fatigue of overused hamstrings put ACLs at an even greater risk of tears. I understand the "why" behind CIF's policy but I do hope smart people from the club scene are working on a schedule that does not put the kids at increased risk.
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Tried to edit with proper #s: 26 states typically play HS soccer in the fall (incl. DC and AZ); 6 play in winter (incl. AZ); and 20 play in spring.
 
dk_b said:
Keep in mind that Spring high school soccer is the norm for about half the country (only 6 states (I think; it may be 5) play in the winter and the balance in fall - and they will be facing similar issues) so ECNL and other leagues/platforms already deal with winter club scheduling. I would HOPE that club soccer in CA would simply move the traditional HS break from winter to spring.

Having the kids play both HS and club simultaneously is idiocy. No high level soccer would play that volume of games (4 or 5 per week) for a 2 to 3 month period. The fatigue of overused hamstrings put ACLs at an even greater risk of tears. I understand the "why" behind CIF's policy but I do hope smart people from the club scene are working on a schedule that does not put the kids at increased risk.
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Crazy when you think about that adults can only play 1-2 per week with 3-5 day gaps and HS kids who are adult size or just about fully grown can play 3x a week, every other day, 24 games during a 8 weeks span during HS, etc. Nuts if you throw in club, tournament play into the mix at the same time. Changing gears or mindsets going back and forth between the two I dunno if that works all that well either?
 
jpeter said:
Crazy when you think about that adults can only play 1-2 per week with 3-5 day gaps and HS kids who are adult size or just about fully grown can play 3x a week, every other day, 24 games during a 8 weeks span during HS, etc. Nuts if you throw in club, tournament play into the mix at the same time. Changing gears or mindsets going back and forth between the two I dunno if that works all that well either?
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I have a kid who just finished HS and two getting started. The pressure that even the heavily-recruited athlete faces is enormous and if a parents are going through the HS ride with their first child - not knowing how to contextualize the season, not knowing how much to believe or shut out a DOC or club coach, how much to prioritize a specific show-case this one very odd academic year . . . Kids (and parents) are going to feel a lot pressure to do too much.

If the club season remains in spring and a full club/full HS season are played simultaneously (with similar participation rates), I predict the ACL tear rate for the 14 to 18 yo set will be very, VERY high in late spring/early summer. My older kid was a GK and I'd be less worried about her playing that # of games (more worried about an increased concussion risk b/c of so many more live-action minutes) but my younger two are field players. It will be tough to tell them - and their coach - "no. That's too much" b/c it always feels like ONE MORE GAME is OK or a weekend with restricted minutes but that is how fatigue builds.
 
dk_b said:
If the club season remains in spring and a full club/full HS season are played simultaneously (with similar participation rates), I predict the ACL tear rate for the 14 to 18 yo set will be very, VERY high in late spring/early summer. My older kid was a GK and I'd be less worried about her playing that # of games (more worried about an increased concussion risk b/c of so many more live-action minutes) but my younger two are field players. It will be tough to tell them - and their coach - "no. That's too much" b/c it always feels like ONE MORE GAME is OK or a weekend with restricted minutes but that is how fatigue builds.
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Agree. Limiting minutes in games played over a period of days was the one of the few things I thought DA did a better job of than the previous environment.
 
notintheface said:
You've got some hardcore coaches. Local HS team here is run by a club coach and does 2 sessions per week plus a game. (I guess it makes sense-- they want to keep these kids from getting injured in the run-up to State Cup)
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"Hardcore" is a kid way to say dumbass HS coaches who whack super heavy schedules on kids...... 2-3 sessions plus a game is far more sensible for the injury reasons you stated..... some HS coaches do SIX days per week..... anything to try and squeak out those wins
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Agree. Limiting minutes in games played over a period of days was the one of the few things I thought DA did a better job of than the previous environment.
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What happens is "key" players get too many minutes inevitably, no matter how hard they try coaches want to win more than sub.

Since Socal HS soccer now is:
February 27, last league games on 5/6/21 and ends on June 5th at the regional finals.

That schedule is tight, not sure any traditional break would work. Overlap is inevitable, adjustments by all parties will be needed.

ECNL used fall and later spring to fit games in but with spring HS packed until june and the other sports going at the same time, going to need to adjust.
 
jpeter said:
What happens is "key" players get too many minutes inevitably, no matter how hard they try coaches want to win more than sub.

Since Socal HS soccer now is:
February 27, last league games on 5/6/21 and ends on June 5th at the regional finals.

That schedule is tight, not sure any traditional break would work. Overlap is inevitable, adjustments by all parties will be needed.

ECNL used fall and later spring to fit games in but with spring HS packed until june and the other sports going at the same time, going to need to adjust.
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Look for Christmas and New Years Day showcases to squeeze in games.
 
Own Goal said:
I don't know about other sections, but I'm pretty sure CIF-SDS allows kids to play two sports during the same season of sport, but there are limits on the total number of hours student athletes can spend practicing and competing each week. It would have to be a coordinated effort by the athlete and coaches. Obviously it's not ideal, but it is possible.
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Allow and can when games and practice overlap are not easy. Not to mention the additional academic time constraints.
 
Mosafie said:
Allow and can when games and practice overlap are not easy. Not to mention the additional academic time constraints.
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Assuming we do reopen up in time for a high school season, the other thing to consider is that the teachers may be far behind after the chaos of the fall and may be trying to crank it. There's some talk in California and New York education circles that kids might need to be held a year back. The schools are worried that when testing resumes, the test results (and the money that goes with them) may crater. So the discussion as to how to remedy is hold everyone back a year. If they don't go that route, they'll be enormous pressure for the teachers to make up ground in the spring. It applies also to the high performing classes as well as the AP tests roll around. Lot of variables (e.g. how they grade in the fall and how serious teachers and students take it) but my money is on the teachers (after the idea of hold everyone back a year dies) will be under pressure to crank it in the spring.
 
Grace T. said:
Assuming we do reopen up in time for a high school season, the other thing to consider is that the teachers may be far behind after the chaos of the fall and may be trying to crank it. There's some talk in California and New York education circles that kids might need to be held a year back. The schools are worried that when testing resumes, the test results (and the money that goes with them) may crater. So the discussion as to how to remedy is hold everyone back a year. If they don't go that route, they'll be enormous pressure for the teachers to make up ground in the spring. It applies also to the high performing classes as well as the AP tests roll around. Lot of variables (e.g. how they grade in the fall and how serious teachers and students take it) but my money is on the teachers (after the idea of hold everyone back a year dies) will be under pressure to crank it in the spring.
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Holding kids back a year will be the worst decision yet in 2020
 
Grace T. said:
If they don't go that route, they'll be enormous pressure for the teachers to make up ground in the spring.
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They won't be able to hold everyone back a year.

Therefore look for the public schools and the teachers unions to dumb down testing/grading thereby making it easier to pass with high grades and "look good".

So kids won't learn as much, but they will manipulate the results so the schools/union looks good.

In education circles that is what is known as a "win win".
 
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