Balancing a heavy school workload and high level soccer.. Reasonable accommodation requests?

[mirage]

Yes 6 hours is on the extreme end. It is not a daily occurrence. IMHO, the problem is what typically should be a long term project is due in a short duration of time (days not weeks) . And those extreme man hours on the weekend were allocated to the same projects to prevent procrastination. It seems like 1 teacher is going pretty extreme with her expectations. The rest seem to have the normal expectations of their students.

Just curious. At what age/grade is it appropriate for any student to deal with short timeframe project/assignment? Based on your description, having weeks instead of days is what you're calling "unreasonable expectations"? (along with the work the goes with that)

Typically, what I've seen (3 kids) over the years is that so called multi weeks projects are waste of time as NO kids starts them early. Most often, there is a spike of activities about a week (or day or two before...) before its due. In some instances, the teacher has kids work on the project components during the weeks leading up to submittal. In other words, no one element is beyond reasonableness.

My sense is, after reading few of your replies herein, that this is the first teacher your kid has had that increased expectations in a step, rather than a gradual increase of workload. Also, isn't dealing with this sort of change part of growing up in an educational context?

In any case, this particular problem sounds temporary, as you've indicated that its one teacher, so your issue is much more focused and is about getting through this semester. For that, I recommend doing nothing different and learn to get through it. If it happens again, the next time, your kid will be much more able to handle it having gone through it now.

 

[jrcaesar]

Just want to +1 this point @ThtGoaldnKeeper made:

And honestly, this is something you can't push on her and should be a decision she makes on her own. Pushing her to take harder and harder classes shouldn't be your decision. It has to be hers because one thing a lot of parents don't realize is how hard it is.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mystery Train]

I found that there was way too much homework in middle school and my DD's workloads actually improved in high school

gkrent beat me to the punch. Middle school (8th grade especially) is the absolute worst as far as workloads go. Not sure exactly why that is, but we saw this with both our older daughters. It is a little better in freshman year of HS, and then it keeps getting easier each year after that. So there is light at the end of the tunnel. That being said, the estimates of time spent on school work in the original post do sound unusually high.

 

[GKDad65]

"...having a high-level 8th grade soccer player...", your kidding yourself.
School and grades first, have fun with sports second.

Don't get wrapped p in this "high level" youth soccer nonsense.
In a few years you'll be laughing at yourself for all the drama that we get into
over this business.

I'm guilty.

 

[Stand Your Ground]

Many school districts have a waiver that will exempt students from PE if they are already training a certain amount of time per week. Some school districts will also allow students to opt out of electives. You might want to look into this as it would shorten your child's school day and allow them more time to do homework before practice. My son will be entering his first year of DA this year and this is something I absolutely will be considering doing when he reaches junior high.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Her school load is so big mainly due to 1 or 2 teachers that assign her sizeable projects with ultra short time deadlines + regular schoolwork. Combine that with our DD's high standards for the quality of her work and attention to detail = crazy manhours devoted by an 8th grader. She is taking advanced classes but she does 0 extra credit work. The pressure comes from Mom's cultural upbringing (Tiger Mom).

I've got to be honest with you if you are looking for a silver bullet there isn't one. My player had over a 4.6 GPA in high school, did IB and AP and came into college with 40+ credits and has continued the same grades in college. In addition she played ECNL, ODP and multiple YNT trips. In order to do all those things she had to learn to prioritize school then soccer and things like rest and social activities had to become scheduled activities.

It's all about the kid and your level of expectations. Prioritize school as it makes the good player look great, the great player look amazing, and the amazing player a unicorn. My player had and continues to have many late nights. It has been a positive as she is mature beyond her years when it comes to time management and saying no to peers due to prior commitments. There is plenty of time in the day for a child to have it all. Let them go for it if they want it. If they are starting to get burned let them cut back on an activity.

My player would always get overwhelmed during the spring with track, soccer, AP tests and teenage stuff. I let her cut back and take one less class during the spring. It's not easy and one of the reasons that high level club soccer girls are so amazing. Listen to your player. Ask her how she feels. Take steps if she is starting to crack. Most of all don't be afraid to let her push herself. Our delicate flowers are a lot tougher than we think.

Great topic. This is a tough journey. Good luck to you and yours.

 

[Grace T.]

gkrent beat me to the punch. Middle school (8th grade especially) is the absolute worst as far as workloads go. Not sure exactly why that is, but we saw this with both our older daughters. It is a little better in freshman year of HS, and then it keeps getting easier each year after that. So there is light at the end of the tunnel. That being said, the estimates of time spent on school work in the original post do sound unusually high.

It's in part because the kids haven't gone on separate tracks yet, so the teachers need to teach to the higher end of the scale and get the AP kids ready for AP. For kids carrying 4 APs in a semester their junior year, it doesn't really level off.

 

[gkrent]

It's in part because the kids haven't gone on separate tracks yet, so the teachers need to teach to the higher end of the scale and get the AP kids ready for AP. For kids carrying 4 APs in a semester their junior year, it doesn't really level off.

Well, my DD felt it did. And she's going into college with almost 30 credits. I'm sure if you kid is really STEMy and taking AP CALC BC and AP Physics at the same time they are going to feel the heat; but if they are that kind of kid they almost certainly have better than average time management and prioritization skills.

 

[chargerfan]

So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student. Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout. I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned. Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's, energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly? In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school as well. If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload? Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?

Cut down on the soccer. Obviously they have too many extracurriculars if they can't fit in 9-10 hours of sleep a night. That sounds miserable for the child, and like a one-way ticket to serious anxiety and burn out.

 

[Soccer Cat]

Many school districts have a waiver that will exempt students from PE if they are already training a certain amount of time per week. Some school districts will also allow students to opt out of electives. You might want to look into this as it would shorten your child's school day and allow them more time to do homework before practice. My son will be entering his first year of DA this year and this is something I absolutely will be considering doing when he reaches junior high.

I asked about this for my daughter and there are only a few sports that they "count" and soccer was NOT one of them (gymnastics, and some others were) I'm in San Diego County so it may vary. They told me the standards are set by the state. I couldn't believe how ridiculous they are.

My kid actually loves PE, but would push herself during runs etc and of course they don't warm up or cool down properly, so it led to some issues. I wish they were a little more liberal with letting kids out of PE that train several days a week in a sport. Sometimes its just too much.

 

[sandshark]

I myself find it very disturbing that you have to actually ask the question..soccer or school.. WHAT!!? Soccer is a sport, not real life. Most of the big money making machines (clubs) shove the college soccer dreams down your throat! Girls youth soccer is literally the biggest scam going in the history of youth sports. We have been there and done this, soccer scholarships are very hard to come by compared to academic scholarships. And if you find a college soccer family or a club soccer coach that will give it to you straight they will tell you (WARN YOU) majority of any kind of scholarships are based mostly on their academics with a small amount given for Women's soccer. The number of clubs and players at the "higher level" that actually are realizing any real monetary value compared to the money spent playing club soccer is almost comical..almost. So if your actually doing this sport for the 'free ride" think again!

 

[Grace T.]

We have been there and done this, soccer scholarships are very hard to come by compared to academic scholarships. And if you find a college soccer family or a club soccer coach that will give it to you straight they will tell you (WARN YOU) majority of any kind of scholarships are based mostly on their academics with a small amount given for Women's soccer. The number of clubs and players at the "higher level" that actually are realizing any real monetary value compared to the money spent playing club soccer is almost comical..almost. So if your actually doing this sport for the 'free ride" think again!

Academic scholarships aren't really free flowing either. Most scholarships are either award (e.g. Beauty pageants, science competitions, spelling bees, DAR essays) based, need based government grants or preference based (minorities, first gen college). Academic scholarships are ways lower tiers colleges can woo away higher stat students from higher level colleges. My goddaughter for instance had to pay full freight to my ivy but was offered nearly a free pass to dad's alma matter UCSD.

 

[mirage]

Recommend people look at soccer/sports as one of key differentiator (if recruited).

Rather than looking at it as scholarship/full/majority ride mentality, more appropriate way to view it is:

"if soccer opens the door and gets you into an institution that otherwise you would not have had the opportunity to goto, then its been all worth it."

Any financial offset is a windfall and not the primary objective.

 

[mahrez]

Helping young adults or teens find the right mix that works for them can be tricky. Many Teens are not getting as much rest/sleep as they should.
http://www.nationwidechildrens.org/sleep-in-adolescents
"Adolescents are notorious for not getting enough sleep. The average amount of sleep that teenagers get is between 7 and 7 ¼ hours. However, they need between 9 and 9 ½ hours (studies show that most teenagers need exactly 9 ¼ hours of sleep)."

That aside the amount of "screen" time they have with electronic devices is another concern.

There is a lot more beyond sports and academics work: social, Civic, and jobs for adolescents. How can they do all things at the "highest" level, or course they can't. How many of those or even beyond one of those can they devote the attention and dedication required to reach those levels?

Let's say top is 10-15% (gold), 1% (Platinum), .5% (Plutonium), .1% (Diamond).

There might be some who think their kid is a diamond soccer player and Gold level academically but beyond that I doubt they other areas are in top range, you can't be all things to all people, choices and prioritization are the only way.

Being well rounded is a problem we have W/ some adolescents nowadays, they are too narrowly focused on the small picture and tend to forget the Bigger ones. I'm fine with a silver level sports player who is also at that level with everything else rather than a diamond player who is basically dirt in some of other things that are important but everybody is different so they have to find there own ways.

My kids have/had a lot of friends with tiger type mom's with very stressful parent relationships. They are well meaning no doubt, but giving kid's freedom to go there own way, make there choices, learn from their own mistakes is something they will thank you for later.

 

[Slow Jamin]

It seems pretty clear from your answers that soccer is the priority since that is the route she is going to college on. It also does sound like there might be an issue with one teacher (though you did say in the OP you were going to approach teachers). Re the one, you might have a quiet word with the PTA President and try to get the other parents on board, but confronting the teacher directly is unlikely to get you anywhere and going to the administration will likely make the teacher hostile to your child. As in the work place, different teachers have different philosophies-- you have to be ready for them all. This teacher (since it's 8th grade) is likely a wheat from the chaff type teacher that looks to be getting the kids ready for high school, particularly the high performers. If soccer really is the priority, maybe something has got to give...maybe a B from this teacher really isn't so bad....maybe spending all the extra hours to make sure everything is diligently done isn't worth it. You child is going to have to learn to prioritize along the way. Worst case, it's already March and high school is around the corner..as you say, though, you probably don't want her doing the higher AP level route

Yes. It is most likely coming down to 1 teacher that is looking to get the high performers ready for high school. I just feel that it is excessive when the kid has literally stayed up until 3 AM to complete a project that was assigned on the same day. But hey, life is not easy, the kid needs to adapt, and I guess I need to keep my mouth shut.

 

[chargerfan]

Helping young adults or teens find the right mix that works for them can be tricky. Many Teens are not getting as much rest/sleep as they should.
http://www.nationwidechildrens.org/sleep-in-adolescents
"Adolescents are notorious for not getting enough sleep. The average amount of sleep that teenagers get is between 7 and 7 ¼ hours. However, they need between 9 and 9 ½ hours (studies show that most teenagers need exactly 9 ¼ hours of sleep)."

That aside the amount of "screen" time they have with electronic devices is another concern.

There is a lot more beyond sports and academics work: social, Civic, and jobs for adolescents. How can they do all things at the "highest" level, or course they can't. How many of those or even beyond one of those can they devote the attention and dedication required to reach those levels?

Let's say top is 10-15% (gold), 1% (Platinum), .5% (Plutonium), .1% (Diamond).

There might be some who think their kid is a diamond soccer player and Gold level academically but beyond that I doubt they other areas are in top range, you can't be all things to all people, choices and prioritization are the only way.

Being well rounded is a problem we have W/ some adolescents nowadays, they are too narrowly focused on the small picture and tend to forget the Bigger ones. I'm fine with a silver level sports player who is also at that level with everything else rather than a diamond player who is basically dirt in some of other things that are important but everybody is different so they have to find there own ways.

My kids have/had a lot of friends with tiger type mom's with very stressful parent relationships. They are well meaning no doubt, but giving kid's freedom to go there own way, make there choices, learn from their own mistakes is something they will thank you for later.

I agree with this. Mommy and Daddy won't be in college with them looking over their shoulder, so they need the freedom to make, and learn from, their mistakes now. I also grew up with an overbearing father, and know well how that can mess you up for life. Is it the end of the world if she makes a B in 8th grade, in order to get some sleep at night? Or find a soccer club closer to home? It seems like this would lessen the stress and anxiety that I am not quite sure an 8th grader should have. That's what adulthood is for!

 

[Slow Jamin]

Just curious. At what age/grade is it appropriate for any student to deal with short timeframe project/assignment? Based on your description, having weeks instead of days is what you're calling "unreasonable expectations"? (along with the work the goes with that)

Typically, what I've seen (3 kids) over the years is that so called multi weeks projects are waste of time as NO kids starts them early. Most often, there is a spike of activities about a week (or day or two before...) before its due. In some instances, the teacher has kids work on the project components during the weeks leading up to submittal. In other words, no one element is beyond reasonableness.

My sense is, after reading few of your replies herein, that this is the first teacher your kid has had that increased expectations in a step, rather than a gradual increase of workload. Also, isn't dealing with this sort of change part of growing up in an educational context?

In any case, this particular problem sounds temporary, as you've indicated that its one teacher, so your issue is much more focused and is about getting through this semester. For that, I recommend doing nothing different and learn to get through it. If it happens again, the next time, your kid will be much more able to handle it having gone through it now.

I agree with the points that you make if these were normal circumstances. IMHO, under normal circumstances, the majority kids are able to complete their assignments on time - whatever quality of work they hand in. The reality of this particular situation is that the majority of her classmates (it's an advanced class) basically give up, and don't get their assignments done on time at all. While she is going the extra mile to complete her assignments. It's definitely building character. We are learning that this is part of the process.

 

[chargerfan]

Yes. It is most likely coming down to 1 teacher that is looking to get the high performers ready for high school. I just feel that it is excessive when the kid has literally stayed up until 3 AM to complete a project that was assigned on the same day. But hey, life is not easy, the kid needs to adapt, and I guess I need to keep my mouth shut.

Sorry, but something sounds off to me. Is it taking your daughter 12 hours or so to do a project that was assigned that day, and due the next day? Either that teacher is insane, and you should have a talk with the principal, or she might need to modify her work habits.

 

[Grace T.]

Yes. It is most likely coming down to 1 teacher that is looking to get the high performers ready for high school. I just feel that it is excessive when the kid has literally stayed up until 3 AM to complete a project that was assigned on the same day.

It's interesting how competition is affecting both soccer and academics and this generation (Gen. Z.) is getting much more of it than either the Xers of the Millenials did....it's all that tiger parenting. The issue is the teacher seems to be catering to the high performers who are themselves competing for ever shrinking slots (because of international competition) in the top 20 schools. My kids are still in elementary, but even among them, we see the lengths that some parents will go to push their high academic performers-- many of them send their already high performing kids to Kumon or Chinese Learning Center to get extra academic "touches on the ball" in addition to the high homework demands our private elementary school already puts on the kids. Similarly, in club soccer (my eldest's rookie year) we see parents that have the private coaches, development academies, and summer camp. As a result, kids begin to fall behind because others, whether in academics or sports, have all those additional "touches on the ball". Would it be great to just let kids be kids? Absolutely. Have we put too much pressure and competition on kids, ever younger and younger? Maybe. But one thing is pretty certain: there is an arm's race out there, both in sports and in the classroom, and the highest performers are being pushed to ever greater limits.

 

[Slow Jamin]

I agree with this. Mommy and Daddy won't be in college with them looking over their shoulder, so they need the freedom to make, and learn from, their mistakes now. I also grew up with an overbearing father, and know well how that can mess you up for life. Is it the end of the world if she makes a B in 8th grade, in order to get some sleep at night? Or find a soccer club closer to home? It seems like this would lessen the stress and anxiety that I am not quite sure an 8th grader should have. That's what adulthood is for!

I agree 100% with taking the B and getting the much needed sleep. I recommended this approach to a couple projects that required crazy manhours but she refused as she was raised with the Asian Tiger Mom cultural approach to school. We are fortunate that soccer is very close to the home.