Bad News Thread

watfly said:
Apples and oranges, but you know that.

If a private business wants to see my vaccine card, I have the choice whether to give them my business. I suspect if its a concert I really wanted to go to I would gladly show my vaccine card. In other cases, I'm probably taking my business elsewhere.

We will not require our customers to show a vaccine card, because its none of our f'ing business. This is decision that took less than a couple seconds to make.

There is this dangerous trend of the "infantilization" of adults (this is particularly distasteful when its done to minorities). IMO, requiring vaccine cards instead of using the honor system is an example of this.
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Now who do you suppose would take unfair advantage of your "honor system"?
 
watfly said:
Cruise ships? I'm not sure there are many things more unappealing then being stuck on a floating hotel with 2,000+ other people. I know people swear by them, but my idea of a vacation is getting away from other people. If I did go on a cruise, I'd worry way more about getting the norovirus than I would the coronavirus.
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I have zero interest in cruises either. I don't like set type schedules and like to be very flexible when traveling.

For years when my wife and I went to other countries we would not even book hotels. We would land and then figure out where we were staying. Made for some interesting adventures.

Over time as I would go back to the various countries again and again I knew the places I liked, etc and now normally book in advance. Also as I get older I have less patience.

But being on a cruise and being subject to...OK you have 8 hours on shore, be back by this time, etc is VERY unappealing to me.
 
Grace T. said:
People being people.....such people who don't trust the vaccine and want their fellow travellers quarantined if they test positive will be happy until they find they were at the dinner table with said people and now have to wait 3 days locked in their cabins until they can be tested.
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Why would they be waiting three days to be tested?
 
watfly said:
We will not require our customers to show a vaccine card, because its none of our f'ing business. This is decision that took less than a couple seconds to make.

There is this dangerous trend of the "infantilization" of adults (this is particularly distasteful when its done to minorities). IMO, requiring vaccine cards instead of using the honor system is an example of this.
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Another factor to consider as well. Our medical info is private. There are federal laws that protect that privacy.

We can't suddenly say it is OK for private biz to look at our medical info.
 
Grace T. said:
For a cruise there is. If they are that unsafe you need to do both may as well not have cruises because otherwise you are asking people who have been vaccinated to pay all that cash for a potential vacation locked in their cabins for a week
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Locked in cabins? Says who?

I can easily imagine a cruise with vaccinated passengers who all got tested before boarding.

You're still stuck in a boolean model. The world is not always zero or one. Usually, it is in between. Take some stats. Embrace the probability distribution. Learn the difference between p= 10^-3 and p=10^-6.

Just don't go Bayesian with it. They call you racist if you go Bayesian.
 
Desert Hound said:
Another factor to consider as well. Our medical info is private. There are federal laws that protect that privacy.

We can't suddenly say it is OK for private biz to look at our medical info.
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Private biz already does look at your medical information. Have you ever purchased life insurance?

You can refuse to tell them your medical information. And they can refuse to insure you at that price.
 
watfly said:
People that are prone to lying, cheating and stealing in their other affairs, which is independent of political affiliation if that's what you're insinuating.
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I wasn't insinuating any political connection. I agree with your "lying, cheating, and stealing" characterization.
 
Desert Hound said:
Another factor to consider as well. Our medical info is private. There are federal laws that protect that privacy.

We can't suddenly say it is OK for private biz to look at our medical info.
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Conceptually yes. And I believe that adult vaccination status should be private. However, the legal consensus seems to be that a business can ask an employee or customer their vaccination status and not violate HIPAA. However, to ask them why they aren't vaccinated would be a violation....based upon what I've read, which may, or may not be correct.

IMO, its in incredibly poor taste for an employer to ask someone's vaccination status. I also think its terrible business decision, both short term and long term.
 
dad4 said:
Private biz already does look at your medical information. Have you ever purchased life insurance?

You can refuse to tell them your medical information. And they can refuse to insure you at that price.
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When I was 23 and in the Navy they just signed me up without even asking any health questions. When I was near 50, they made me fill out a health history questionnaire and sent a nurse to the house to check my vitals and draw some blood (and I was accepted).
 
dad4 said:
Private biz already does look at your medical information. Have you ever purchased life insurance?

You can refuse to tell them your medical information. And they can refuse to insure you at that price.
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This post says it ALL…..give up people. It’s useless!
 
watfly said:
Conceptually yes. And I believe that adult vaccination status should be private. However, the legal consensus seems to be that a business can ask an employee or customer their vaccination status and not violate HIPAA. However, to ask them why they aren't vaccinated would be a violation....based upon what I've read, which may, or may not be correct.

IMO, its in incredibly poor taste for an employer to ask someone's vaccination status. I also think its terrible business decision, both short term and long term.
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"Poor taste"?

"I see dead people" -- (sorry, I couldn't find a 10-second video clip of that)
 
dad4 said:
You are using a false dichotomy. Trust is not boolean.

I trust the vaccine to do what they tested it to do: be 95% effective at preventing serious illness.
I do not trust the vaccine to completely block transmission in a very high risk environment like a cruise ship.

So, do I trust the vaccine or not?

There is nothing logically inconsistent with using both vaccines and tests.
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“Do you still beat your wife?”
 
espola said:
I don't get where all the emotion comes from about vaccine passports. Am I the only one old enough to remember the yellow vaccine cards that were required for entry (or even visa applications) to much of the world? Aren't kids still required to show proof of up-to-date immunizations in order to attend public schools?

School & Childcare Requirements for Immunizations :: Public Health :: Contra Costa Health Services

Find out what vaccines are recommended for you and your family.
cchealth.org cchealth.org
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They are conditioned to react that way. Like with other code words and phrases they can’t explain they just know how they are supposed to react in their world. Ask one about critical race theory and behold the nonsense.
 
espola said:
"Poor taste"?

"I see dead people" -- (sorry, I couldn't find a 10-second video clip of that)
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Maybe poor taste is the wrong word. Let me just put it to you this way. I don't what to start my customer relationship with "Can I see your vaccine card?" Your immediately questioning the trust you have in that individual.

It's a virus with very low risk. For the 100th time if you're uncomfortable with that risk, stay home. Catering to the lowest common denominator gets us nowhere.
 
espola said:
I don't get the connection.
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Bayesian statistics provides the logical basis for stereotyping.

It lets you take one direction of data (percent of group X with behavior Y) and flip it. (probability that specific act Y was the result of something from group X)

It’s completely mathematically valid. If you apply it to an assembly line, it tells you that the widget from group X might be defective, and need to be replaced.

No problem so far. Now replace the word “assembly line” with “neighborhood” and “widget” with “person”. Ugly. Who wants to live in that kind of world?
 
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