AYSO United?
- Thread starter Grace T.
- Start date
ItsCalledSoccer
SILVER
They want to provide soccer for all. As players improve, they leave. In fact, whole teams leave for club. So why not keep them in the AYSO family and allow them to stay together and compete at a higher level. Just because it is non-profit, doesn't mean they aren't allowed to try and grow their program, make more money, and therefore provide more for their teams.
I'm hearing reports that the AYSO regions will be receiving free clinics, from the professional coaches, to the Extra or core level players in certain areas. This is affordable by the revenue made from AYSO United. I personally think its a great move from AYSO and should help keep the costs of club down.
ItsCalledSoccer
SILVER
Clearly I don't have all the answers, but they want to maintain their players. What's wrong with that? I assume that having more players, especially at club level, will create more revenue and help them grow the organisation. I guess AYSO has to change and be flexible to adapt to the market. Their fees were very competitive with other offers we had seen. We're happy to stay and happy with the package provided, yes.
Ayso is a business like all other clubs. 501c3 or not, Ayso has decided to offer the continuum of programs due to the market demands.
IMO, if they do it right, they have the upper hand, because most kids start in ayso. If they can produce quality teams and attract competent coaches they will garner their share of the club market.
@Soccer43, the mission statement of AYSO arguably requires AYSO to offer a "club" tier within their program. (see, http://www.ayso.org/aboutayso/mission.htm#.Wm157KinE2w)
AYSO's Vision is to provide world class youth soccer programs that enrich children's lives.
AYSO's Mission is to develop and deliver quality youth soccer programs which promote a fun, family environment based on AYSO's Six Philosophies:
- Everyone Plays®
- Balanced Teams
- Open Registration
- Positive Coaching
- Good Sportsmanship
- Player Development
The fact that AYSO is a "non-profit" just like every single Cal South Club doesn't mean anything. Non-profits, like AYSO, believe their mission is important and are going to do everything they can to fulfill their mission. Every club from Surf, Slammers, Strikers, Eagles, Arsenal, or any of the other 100's of clubs basically believes the same thing ... "We do it better." I say good for them. Let's see how this thing plays out.
zebrafish
SILVER ELITE
There is this recurrent opinion I see made about 50% playing time being this "ridiculous" feature of the AYSO.
Are there really a lot of club teams out there where players don't play half the game over a sustained period of time? Really?
I have to say that I can't imagine paying $2000+ and spending all the time/effort (both mine and my kid's) for them to play a sport where they rode the bench. My kid is on the younger side and there are clearly the "best" and "worst" players on the team, but I guess I have an understanding that the "worst" kids are going to get field time if the goal is to develop all the players. The "worst" may not start, but they play. For a properly selected team, should there really be a situation where players are so weak in relation to their teammates that they don't play?
Fortunately, my kid has not been among the "worst" on a team. But I also feel like due diligence as a parent would make me avoid a situation where my kid was "an outlier" either on the top side or the bottom side of the player pool.
Yikes.
Are there really a lot of club teams out there where players don't play half the game over a sustained period of time? Really?
I have to say that I can't imagine paying $2000+ and spending all the time/effort (both mine and my kid's) for them to play a sport where they rode the bench. My kid is on the younger side and there are clearly the "best" and "worst" players on the team, but I guess I have an understanding that the "worst" kids are going to get field time if the goal is to develop all the players. The "worst" may not start, but they play. For a properly selected team, should there really be a situation where players are so weak in relation to their teammates that they don't play?
Fortunately, my kid has not been among the "worst" on a team. But I also feel like due diligence as a parent would make me avoid a situation where my kid was "an outlier" either on the top side or the bottom side of the player pool.
Yikes.
@zebrafish, once you get to the "olders" level (U14 and above), the leagues implement substitution rules that prevent players who come off from returning that half. Some like CRL, NPL and ECNL adopt the FIFA "7 rule" (no more than 7 substitutions) at U15+, and the USSDA adopts the FIFA 5 rule at the older age groups. What this means is the bench players often only get 5 to 10 minutes in garbage time to no time for teams at the higher levels.
At the younger ages, unlimited substitutions is the norm. Finally, its not a matter of players being so weak as not to play, rather, the pressure on the clubs/coaches to win is so high that clubs view "practices" as true development time and "games" as simply competitions designed to demonstrate development that occurred during practices.
My personal view is this is "youth soccer." Let the kids play and abolish all substitution rules except for those teams that play internationally (US National Teams). I seen kids quit teams and soccer because they are Flight 1 bench players and believe Flight 2 is beneath them. Their ego gets in the way of development and fun.
jrcaesar
SILVER ELITE
Good overview from @MWN. To add what I know from the AYSO side: Part of why Extra started (I've heard) was to keep soccer families in the AYSO program. The best coach volunteers leave when their children move to club, so giving them a program keeps soccer-first families around. (Good for the referee program, especially.) I presume this is part of the push to build AYSO United, to help the local regions.
Yeah, but if some United programs are paying their coaches the push eventually will be for an all-paid system...the volunteer parents will look over at the next region and ask "why aren't I being compensated for my time". Moreover, with the AYSO curriculum and US Soccer curriculum diverging so much, if things keep going the way they are going (which in turn depends on the election), I can't imagine licensing reciprocity lasts very much longer, particularly as the clubs begin to complain about AYSO moving into their space.
By creating AYSO United. AYSO is effectively promoting that it doesn't have the faith and belief in it's core program that it promotes to its Regions. If AYSO clearly focused on what it has the best opportunity to succeed in, it would dominate the Recreational Market share and not be losing players at such an exponential rate to the various organizations it currently bleeds to. Almost every Club player starts in Rec. Focus on where the numbers are to make the biggest impact to the game Nationally and stop half assing an area you will always come second in.
Eagle33
PREMIER
Do any one of you really think AYSO United started to support core AYSO values? Stop kidding yourselves.
Little history....in England Rec programs run by volunteers and supported by cities and sponsors, so there is no money in youth soccer there, unless it's an academy of course. Those programs called Grassroots and fully sanctioned by FA, however there is no money in it. The money is here, in US, so all those English guys who didn't want to do it for free in England, not to mention they were not good enough to coach in academy, figured out that money is to be made in States. That was years ago and many of them came and started coaching clubs. Right now the new generation of coaches, figured out another way to make money - AYSO United. Why not? Ran down Rec organization with tons of money to spare. They can get any field they want and pay absolutely zero fees for it, charge a little less than a local club and here you go! Just look who is running the things at AYSO United. All you have to do is follow the money to know what is this really about. I'm not saying it's bad for the kids - it's great to have another option with professional coaching, but if you think for a second that these guys bellow is not in it for the money, think again.
Little history....in England Rec programs run by volunteers and supported by cities and sponsors, so there is no money in youth soccer there, unless it's an academy of course. Those programs called Grassroots and fully sanctioned by FA, however there is no money in it. The money is here, in US, so all those English guys who didn't want to do it for free in England, not to mention they were not good enough to coach in academy, figured out that money is to be made in States. That was years ago and many of them came and started coaching clubs. Right now the new generation of coaches, figured out another way to make money - AYSO United. Why not? Ran down Rec organization with tons of money to spare. They can get any field they want and pay absolutely zero fees for it, charge a little less than a local club and here you go! Just look who is running the things at AYSO United. All you have to do is follow the money to know what is this really about. I'm not saying it's bad for the kids - it's great to have another option with professional coaching, but if you think for a second that these guys bellow is not in it for the money, think again.
zebrafish
SILVER ELITE
Totally agree. But we need to exist in the system that we have.
The AYSO has always lost players as clubs claim "they don't have professional coaches". Yet the AYSO develops players for all these teams.
Parents are given suboptimal choices, but many pay/opt for club soccer (they take the sales pitch, rightly or wrongly-- and I include myself in this) as good players leave, perhaps not knowing they are propping up DOC salaries and paying for things that maybe aren't critical for their kid's development. Like all those track suits.
The clubs and club apologists will continue to bash AYSO and AYSO United. However, I still think they will put downward pressure on club fees. Would I rather pay $500-$1000 less if I can get the same quality product? Absolutely.
I personally have more faith that the AYSO doesn't have greed/money as major motivating factor. I don't think this is true for some clubs out there. We'll see if United can create a quality club soccer product and keep their core values. I think they will find a niche and succeed.
I agree with a lot of what you say but I question how much downward pressure on club fees it will have. The big chunk of change in club fees goes to salaries (coaches, trainers, DOC). If some United teams pay their coaches, experienced volunteers in other areas will likely push for their time to be compensated (or the other parents will push for it...why does X group have payed coaches and a GK trainer and we don't?). Once you have "employees" on your payroll, the director of United coaches will also have a lot more pressure on them (it's easy to dismiss a volunteer or to staff with a parent with a kid in the age group....it's harder to recruit a hire along with all the laws in place that go a long with it, not to mention dismissals)...to the extent there are DOCs operating without salaries, I can't imagine a volunteer would want to put up with it for long (particularly if other United region's DOCs are getting paid for the same work). United also has to make payment to the AYSO state and national organizations, though they will get the benefit of field rental deals AYSO Core may have gotten. And if their coaching salaries aren't competitive, like some All Star or Club Teams now do, coaches may pick up and leave for a non-AYSO club taking their players with them, particularly if the squad is good, wants to keep together and wants to play at a higher level.
So I agree it will have a downward pressure on Club fees but the Club fees will also have an upward pressure on AYSO United fees.
p.s. thanks to everyone that chimed in. Most useful and interesting! The thing that most surprised me is the tidbit that some regions are paying their coaches.
Central is definitely one of them.
I would agree if AYSO United believed in the six Philosophies of AYSO unfortunately they do not.
Their action failed to comply with AYSO United’s philosophy which as stated on AYSO United’s website, states:
How is AYSO United different from other club soccer programs?
What makes AYSO United different from other clubs is our Six Philosophies and the integrity of staying within those Philosophies. Our teams aren’t motivated by large rosters and a win at all costs mentality. If a player is selected to play for AYSO United, the coach will strive to ensure that a players receives 50 percent playing. AYSO United Coaches will focus on developmental training philosophies which falls in line with our U.S. Soccer approved curriculum. U.S. Soccer’s Zone 1 initiatives fall directly in line with AYSO’s “Development over Winning” approach to our club program. No other clubs can boast these credentials. We want to win…but respect and appreciate the entire process of competition.
I was under this impression and had my son try out very hard to get accepted to a team with AYSO United for 3 years finally he got in the 2006 team and they did great as a team for the entire year didn't lose one game, but at the end of the year the coach wanted him to go to 2005 team.
What happened to the player development part of the philosophy in his own age group? I send my first email with my concern to AYSO and AYSO United decision makers, I got a responce from AYSO United stating:
I have spoken with Coach the Director of Coaching and the head coach for the B2006 Team. Coach has obviously evaluated your son through the year and feels that the B2005 (Blue) Team would be a better fit for him should he wish to continue in AYSO United.
As Coach is one of our top DOCs and talent evaluator I ultimately leave the player decisions up to him.
Should you have questions on the evaluation your son received I would communicate with Coach.
I emailed the coach asking: How did my son do comparing to his team mates during this weekends state cup tournament?
Coach replied: This is about your son and I stand by my decision and reasoning.
I have recorded all the 3 games and send another email to every one in the AYSO organization 3 days ago including the coach and his comments and communication stile but have not heard from them yet.
I will keep you posted.
Wait- they want your son to play up a year? That does sound like “development over winning”.
Unless I’m missing something. If your kid is a stud on the 06 team and the coach feels he can compete at a higher level- then that sounds like a good thing.
Or just look for a higher level team in your own age group at another club.
It does seem a but strange that they would force your kid to play up though.
Maybe play with both teams when possible.
Unless I’m missing something. If your kid is a stud on the 06 team and the coach feels he can compete at a higher level- then that sounds like a good thing.
Or just look for a higher level team in your own age group at another club.
It does seem a but strange that they would force your kid to play up though.
Maybe play with both teams when possible.
Sorry forgot to say that my experience was AYSO United South OC
You are correct but we played them in 2 scrimmages if I am not mistaken won 5 to 0 against them.
Plus what if my son gets injured playing older kids? I have played since I was 4 years old and Coached also, It is not good to play up at this age and I am 59 now.
I took my son to practice on a flight 1 team with a great Coach, he suggested that he should play on a flight 2 team and bring him back next year. If he had played on his team AYSO United South OC that is were he would be.
I have done my home work.
They should follow the AYSO Philosophies, It is the best in my opinion.
jrcaesar
SILVER ELITE
United is still a “club” team, which means selection process each spring. Looks like the 06 team (13-0-1) is moving to Silver; means they will need to have silver-level players to advance next year. You might need to look at some other Flight 2s in your area. Sucks, but sounds like that’s where you’re at.