ASD Loyal takes a stand

Copa9 said:
Obviously "the good old days" hasn't changed anything!
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Probably not. Or, this story didn't really happen. LD and the Loyals received good press good for a few days, Rising got bad press. Both sides pointing figures at the other. No smoking gun evidence, he said, she said kinda of stuff. LD feels good about himself and his team doesn't advance.

Sounds like a 2020 event.
 
dad4 said:
I am fine with a red or yellow for language, including racist taunts. It’s in the rules; if you don’t want to get benched, don’t say it.

But there is a place for having a thick skin, too. We seem to be forgetting how to ignore stupid shit.

Not all referees are going to crack down on every comment. Depending on the league, referees are somewhat used to hearing and ignoring stupid comments. Given the comments they have to listen to, it is not surprising that some refs expect others to be able to ignore things, too.
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So many people on this forum fail to see the long range, systemic problem and resort to the "when "I" was on team, or this is the way we did it, or there is nothing we can do". With those attitudes, nothing will change.
 
Copa9 said:
So many people on this forum fail to see the long range, systemic problem and resort to the "when "I" was on team, or this is the way we did it, or there is nothing we can do". With those attitudes, nothing will change.
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I don't think people endorse a "failure to see" situation as much as we're all sick and tired of the alternative. For example, last season an EPL game was stopped because some fool in the stands started making monkey gestures and noises at black players fighting for the ball in the corner. The match was stopped, the referee was informed and the idiot was removed from the stadium. I think we'd all endorse this. However, I'm sick and tired of seeing rainbow flags at soccer stadiums. Why do you need a flag to show your sexuality? Why do we need to know what your sexual preference is? Who gives a shit? Frankly, part of the problem with accepting the differences is constantly having them shoved down our throats. If you want acceptance, and you want to be treated like everyone else, drawing unwanted attention to yourself if a great place to start. There's a balance to it and nude parades and giant, rainbow flags does nothing to warm the hearts of people targeted for "acceptance".
 
Copa9 said:
So many people on this forum fail to see the long range, systemic problem and resort to the "when "I" was on team, or this is the way we did it, or there is nothing we can do". With those attitudes, nothing will change.
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I know what you are getting at and I agree with the theory and intent. I personally don't think it's something that a society can completely eradicate, it's historically impossible. We've gotten much better overall, with tremendous gains. Should it be dealt with, yes. Should we declare societal failure because of an isolated incident, nope. If this was happening in every game of every sport at every level, then I can see the required intervention. But's it not happening to the degree that some people liken it to.

This does not excuse slurs. Leagues should come down hard. You can't regulate thoughts/ideas but you can regulate actions. A team can decide whether to employ a player that demonstrates bad behavior and poorly represents an organization. In today's hair trigger society, employers are firing employees at a rapid rate.

In this case, it was a he said she said. Should a player get ejected, be suspended, lose money over an accusation? That's a hard one. Personal responsibility and having thick skin is what I tell my kids.
 
Copa9 said:
So many people on this forum fail to see the long range, systemic problem and resort to the "when "I" was on team, or this is the way we did it, or there is nothing we can do". With those attitudes, nothing will change.
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Just because we have changed doesn't mean the change was good.

Most of us no longer use racial or sex based insults. That change is good.

Some of us now expect huge penalties when someone does use a slur. We want to cancel the event, fire the person, and blacklist them. That change is bad.
 
my DDs have heard some bad things in their time...... not cool........ it's getting better..... tough situation LD was put in........... play on or and report or walk off and make big statement...... there is s no place for slurs but equally people have extra thin skin nowadays so it is a balance on how to keep moving forwards..........
 
I would say that people don't necessarily have thinner skin than they used to have, but they are more willing to know they need to say/do something and not let it fester inside until something more drastic than walking off of a soccer field occurs. Who knows how long the player who the remark was directed at had been "taking" it and had done things on the pitch to make himself feel better in the moment (a trip here, a hard tackle there, a nicely directed elbow going up for a header). Sometimes enough is enough and you try to push the entire process forward
 
happy9 said:
Probably not. Or, this story didn't really happen. LD and the Loyals received good press good for a few days, Rising got bad press. Both sides pointing figures at the other. No smoking gun evidence, he said, she said kinda of stuff. LD feels good about himself and his team doesn't advance.

Sounds like a 2020 event.
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Makes a lot of sense. Loyals up 2-1. They need the points to make the playoffs but instead fabricate a story, make an issue of it, and walk off the field forfeiting the game. Yeah, that version makes alot more sense.
 
dad4 said:
Just because we have changed doesn't mean the change was good.

Most of us no longer use racial or sex based insults. That change is good.

Some of us now expect huge penalties when someone does use a slur. We want to cancel the event, fire the person, and blacklist them. That change is bad.
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Things have not changed enough. Last fall, seems like a lifetime ago, I had dropped my son off for his practice at the Great Park in the OC, when he heard a player on a very well known team with a well know coach, refer to another player nearby with the "n" word. He said these 12-13 year old boys were all laughing. My son was disgusted. Everyone can sit in their little bubble and say, oh it's getting better so we don't need to do anything, but the reality is that if there are serious repercussions maybe, just maybe it will change behaviors.
 
Copa9 said:
Things have not changed enough. Last fall, seems like a lifetime ago, I had dropped my son off for his practice at the Great Park in the OC, when he heard a player on a very well known team with a well know coach, refer to another player nearby with the "n" word. He said these 12-13 year old boys were all laughing. My son was disgusted. Everyone can sit in their little bubble and say, oh it's getting better so we don't need to do anything, but the reality is that if there are serious repercussions maybe, just maybe it will change behaviors.
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It depends on your bubble. I haven’t heard that word in person since the 1980s. I heard it from a 60 year old teacher and we were all pretty shocked, even then.

That’s why I’m not in search of serious repurcussions. My mental image of a racist is now an old man in the nursing home. For the people I meet day to day, behaviors changed years ago.
 
dad4 said:
It depends on your bubble. I haven’t heard that word in person since the 1980s. I heard it from a 60 year old teacher and we were all pretty shocked, even then.

That’s why I’m not in search of serious repurcussions. My mental image of a racist is now an old man in the nursing home. For the people I meet day to day, behaviors changed years ago.
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You need to get out more.
 
I have to admit, before this incident I've never heard or would know what this means (what this players allegiantly said). I must of been hanging out with a wrong crowd....
 
Simisoccerfan said:
Makes a lot of sense. Loyals up 2-1. They need the points to make the playoffs but instead fabricate a story, make an issue of it, and walk off the field forfeiting the game. Yeah, that version makes alot more sense.
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Just stating the facts of the incident. He said, she said. No one else heard the slur except for except for Collin Martin. Flemings denies it and has no history or pattern of bad behavior. This is 2020 and crazier things have happened. We are still talking about it, there are investigations happening, and Los Bandidos haven't returned to their usual spot at the Rising Complex.
 
espola said:
You need to get out more.
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How often do you, in person, hear someone use a racial term as a slur?

Maybe it is more acceptable in your crowd. In my circle, it just isn’t done. F-bombs on auto repeat would be more polite.

(Maybe outlaw can recommend some good music for those who like F-bombs on autorepeat. I suggest VFW by Dead Milkmen. )
 
Copa9 said:
the reality is that if there are serious repercussions maybe, just maybe it will change behaviors.
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Serious repercussions are certainly effective - I think the issue here is how do you deliver them? Take someone's word for it? Lie detector test, water boarding?
 
dad4 said:
How often do you, in person, hear someone use a racial term as a slur?

Maybe it is more acceptable in your crowd. In my circle, it just isn’t done. F-bombs on auto repeat would be more polite.

(Maybe outlaw can recommend some good music for those who like F-bombs on autorepeat. I suggest VFW by Dead Milkmen. )
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You sort of reinforced my comment with "in my circle". Maybe you should get out of your circle more and see what real life is like.
 
dad4 said:
How often do you, in person, hear someone use a racial term as a slur?

Maybe it is more acceptable in your crowd. In my circle, it just isn’t done. F-bombs on auto repeat would be more polite.

(Maybe outlaw can recommend some good music for those who like F-bombs on autorepeat. I suggest VFW by Dead Milkmen. )
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I think this one pretty much paints the picture.

 
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