ASD Loyal takes a stand

espola said:
Would you have asked the referee to handle it? Would you have asked the opposing coach to handle it?
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1. As a coach/manager, I would have gotten them both involved during the game and would have attempted to make the point and get action taken. I would have exhausted the options available to me during the game to escalate and resolve. I’m sure this was done.

2. As a player, the remainder of the game would have been very difficult for the offender. You take care of your own. It’s pro sports. It happens.

3. As an Owner/Exec there would be escalations to the league office, other owner, etc. for resolution/change, call for an owners meeting, push at that level. Probably happening now.

But I would not have pulled the team from the game. Respect what they did. Just not what I would have done.

Pick away...
 
Woobie06 said:
1. As a coach/manager, I would have gotten them both involved during the game and would have attempted to make the point and get action taken. I would have exhausted the options available to me during the game to escalate and resolve. I’m sure this was done.

2. As a player, the remainder of the game would have been very difficult for the offender. You take care of your own. It’s pro sports. It happens.

3. As an Owner/Exec there would be escalations to the league office, other owner, etc. for resolution/change, call for an owners meeting, push at that level. Probably happening now.

But I would not have pulled the team from the game. Respect what they did. Just not what I would have done.

Pick away...
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Did you watch Landon Donovan's video included in one of the previous responses?

It appears that your option 2 suggests violence be directed towards the offender/ Is that really what you m=ean by "take care of your own"?
 
crush said:
I say kick their ass on the field and get that point but that's how I rolled when I was a kid. I would have gathered the team together and told Colin we have your back and let's kick their asses right now. Walking off the field and losing playoff point is rough. I was called a lot worse things when I played ball btw. Revenge on the field is the only place to win imo. The player accused of using homophobic language put out a statement and is 100% saying he never said such a thing and he's getting hammered online. Landon is an interesting person. I hope we can get back to soccer and keep all this stuff out of the game. Their is a way to handle things on the field. Maybe those days are over for good.
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Appreciate what you’re saying about how it was when you played ball. And Woobie06 touches on the same thing when he says “back in the day”. And Anon calls everyone out using a sex slur.

This is the old boy network that defended, legitimized, condoned and abetted bigotry in all its forms for years.

Landon’s gesture as a team isn’t to be trifled with. In my opinion, it was doing the right thing. You can’t play on and smack the offending player /team down by beating them. That’s ignoring it and brushing it under the rug.

The head ref who apparently heard it should have brought down the red card at the very least. The Phoenix coach who apparently heard it should have pulled the player and if he was in the same moral space as Coach D, he would have pulled the plug and not force San Diego to do it for him.

Nothing easy here but to fight the bullying, racism, homophobia, pettiness that all of us see every day, we cannot brush it aside by talking about how it would have been handled in the past.
 
Giesbock said:
Nothing easy here but to fight the bullying, racism, homophobia, pettiness that all of us see every day, we cannot brush it aside by talking about how it would have been handled in the past.
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Well said, and the fact that its still prevalent today just proves categorically that how it was "handled" in the past didn't work at all.

My son has played on and still plays on pretty diverse teams, white, Hispanic & African American. Since U9 (he's U16 now), every season has seen at least one of the Hispanic or African American kids be subject to a racial slur (a min of one incident a year, sometimes more), locally and on travel tournaments out of state. It took until game 4 this season, 1st game of the second tournament. And those are only the ones he knows about because he heard directly or was told by the player. In one instance only was a player red carded for it because the ref heard .. and the ref did that after the game was over for reasons known only to the ref.
 
As it happened I was like come on just keep playing, beat them on the field. But 10 min later I agreed with Landon and the decision of the team.
we can’t keep normalizing these comments and slurs that punish marginalized groups. Ignoring it and solving it with a two footed tackle doesn’t work. Ignoring it and drumming them 7-1 doesn’t work. So let’s go nuclear and walk off. Maybe the ensuing pressure will enact change.
 
Giesbock said:
Appreciate what you’re saying about how it was when you played ball. And Woobie06 touches on the same thing when he says “back in the day”. And Anon calls everyone out using a sex slur.

This is the old boy network that defended, legitimized, condoned and abetted bigotry in all its forms for years.

Landon’s gesture as a team isn’t to be trifled with. In my opinion, it was doing the right thing. You can’t play on and smack the offending player /team down by beating them. That’s ignoring it and brushing it under the rug.

The head ref who apparently heard it should have brought down the red card at the very least. The Phoenix coach who apparently heard it should have pulled the player and if he was in the same moral space as Coach D, he would have pulled the plug and not force San Diego to do it for him.

Nothing easy here but to fight the bullying, racism, homophobia, pettiness that all of us see every day, we cannot brush it aside by talking about how it would have been handled in the past.
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Your opinion is always right and so be it. I'm not a part of some old boy network either pal.....lol. I had gay teammates and yes, we would have dealt with it differently and I mean that 100%. On the field and that's just a way. Our way in the old days or this teams way is just two ways of dealing with it. You can be right all you want. I'm not so sure their is one right way but you can be right and that's ok with me. I also played my sports at Laguna Beach high School in the early 80s. We were called names all the time and we dealt with it on the field. Again, I'm playing for the playoffs. I will say if my team of yesteryear all decided to walk off because of one jerk, I would go with my team.
 
Giesbock said:
Appreciate what you’re saying about how it was when you played ball. And Woobie06 touches on the same thing when he says “back in the day”. And Anon calls everyone out using a sex slur.

This is the old boy network that defended, legitimized, condoned and abetted bigotry in all its forms for years.

Landon’s gesture as a team isn’t to be trifled with. In my opinion, it was doing the right thing. You can’t play on and smack the offending player /team down by beating them. That’s ignoring it and brushing it under the rug.

The head ref who apparently heard it should have brought down the red card at the very least. The Phoenix coach who apparently heard it should have pulled the player and if he was in the same moral space as Coach D, he would have pulled the plug and not force San Diego to do it for him.

Nothing easy here but to fight the bullying, racism, homophobia, pettiness that all of us see every day, we cannot brush it aside by talking about how it would have been handled in the past.
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It’s not the old boy network, and I don’t condone racial slurs, homophobic slurs or the like. Just pointing out it was very different a couple decades ago, people were tuned differently. You can’t Hello to some today without offending some people. Everyone has their own sensitivity meter. Not condoning what happened in the least.

It’s a USL game...it’s newsworthy because LD was involved.

Want to make a difference, get people to notice...see the NFL, NBA, or MLB Teams walk off....have heard the smack talked in these sports?

What the individual said was wrong on so many levels, but it is going to take much more than words from an immature, uneducated, classless asshat to get me to give up on something I have worked for. Like I said, respect and support what they did. Their choice as a team. Would not have been my choice.

@espola not condoning or advocating violence. Just saying that players on teams have each other’s back. Some people only learn by touching a hot stove. It’s Pro Sports, every sport does it...do you want fighting removed from Hockey, High Inside Pitches being automatic ejections in Baseball?

Its actually a funny rebuttal from you because unless I got things wrong, I was under the impression you had no problem with all the peaceful non-violent protests going on. If I got you confused with somebody, my apologies.
 
Woobie06 said:
It’s not the old boy network, and I don’t condone racial slurs, homophobic slurs or the like. Just pointing out it was very different a couple decades ago, people were tuned differently. You can’t Hello to some today without offending some people. Everyone has their own sensitivity meter. Not condoning what happened in the least.

It’s a USL game...it’s newsworthy because LD was involved.

Want to make a difference, get people to notice...see the NFL, NBA, or MLB Teams walk off....have heard the smack talked in these sports?

What the individual said was wrong on so many levels, but it is going to take much more than words from an immature, uneducated, classless asshat to get me to give up on something I have worked for. Like I said, respect and support what they did. Their choice as a team. Would not have been my choice.

@espola not condoning or advocating violence. Just saying that players on teams have each other’s back. Some people only learn by touching a hot stove. It’s Pro Sports, every sport does it...do you want fighting removed from Hockey, High Inside Pitches being automatic ejections in Baseball?

Its actually a funny rebuttal from you because unless I got things wrong, I was under the impression you had no problem with all the peaceful non-violent protests going on. If I got you confused with somebody, my apologies.
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"not advocating violence", but your examples are hockey fights and beanballs.

I don't understand your last paragraph at all. The Loyal walk-off was peaceful and non-violent, and has attracted national attention to the issue.
 
Crush and Woobie - I referred to your comments because they’re 100% valid and took them as a good starting point to express my opinion. Not meant as an attack. Yeah, I was right there with you turning a blind eye, shrugging it off, plenty of gay friends, and trying like heck to be part of the solution. I definitely applaud Landon Donovan and his teammates taking the stand.
 
espola said:
"not advocating violence", but your examples are hockey fights and beanballs.

I don't understand your last paragraph at all. The Loyal walk-off was peaceful and non-violent, and has attracted national attention to the issue.
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You were saying I’m condoning violence...I thought you said you support all the peaceful non-violent protests (where many are not peaceful)...I found that funny.
 
Giesbock said:
Crush and Woobie - I referred to your comments because they’re 100% valid and took them as a good starting point to express my opinion. Not meant as an attack. Yeah, I was right there with you turning a blind eye, shrugging it off, plenty of gay friends, and trying like heck to be part of the solution. I definitely applaud Landon Donovan and his teammates taking the stand.
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My bad...I misinterpreted what you said/meant.
 
Giesbock said:
Crush and Woobie - I referred to your comments because they’re 100% valid and took them as a good starting point to express my opinion. Not meant as an attack. Yeah, I was right there with you turning a blind eye, shrugging it off, plenty of gay friends, and trying like heck to be part of the solution. I definitely applaud Landon Donovan and his teammates taking the stand.
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Judge Giesbock, I disagree 100% but go right ahead and judge me. Your interesting person but arent we all. Again, I played ball and if I was pro and trying to make the playoffs, this is not what I would want. It's not about old school nothing dude.
 
Emma said:
....... I hear this type of talk in youth soccer games by parents, coaches, and players. Referees ignore it all the time while it happens during the game. How many times have we told our kids to just deal with it because that's the way the world is. "That crazy soccer mom/dad/player is just jealous of your skills kid!" Maybe it doesn't need to be that way....
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One of the members of the referee crew has to hear the comment. I have never heard a racist comment as a center, but have as an AR and been frustrated by the lack of courage by the CRs to do anything. As an AR, I had a player drop the N word on an opponent and flagged It. The CR did nothing and told me, “he’s in high school so he has heard it before.” I have had this happen several times. Completely unacceptable.

The other problem I have had is the lack of support from the referee associations. I and other refs I know have ejected players, coaches and parents for inappropriate comments toward players and using profanity, only to catch crap from our referee association board members. A few years ago At State Cup, I removed all of the spectators from one teams sideline. The parents were using profanity and making inappropriate comments to the 14 year old girls from the other team. I warned them and had the coach warned them twice. I had them removed when one dad yelled, “stop that f’ing bitch.” I caught crap from two association board members Working the tournament. The associations (club and HS) should be supporting the referees instead of making the issuance of a red card a bad thing.

I had a HS coach come at me after a game dropping the f-bomb and I showed him a red card. The next day I got two calls, one from the assigner and one a board member. The first thing I heard was “did you really have to eject him after the game?” Then they went on to tell me what I should have done and tell me that coach said I did not call a good game. They were not at the game and believed the f-bomb coach. This lack of support leads referees to not want to issue cards.
 
whatithink said:
Well said, and the fact that its still prevalent today just proves categorically that how it was "handled" in the past didn't work at all.

My son has played on and still plays on pretty diverse teams, white, Hispanic & African American. Since U9 (he's U16 now), every season has seen at least one of the Hispanic or African American kids be subject to a racial slur (a min of one incident a year, sometimes more), locally and on travel tournaments out of state. It took until game 4 this season, 1st game of the second tournament. And those are only the ones he knows about because he heard directly or was told by the player. In one instance only was a player red carded for it because the ref heard .. and the ref did that after the game was over for reasons known only to the ref.
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That is a referee with no courage if he waited until after the game to issue the red.
 
Surfref said:
That is a referee with no courage if he waited until after the game to issue the red.
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wrt the ref & ARs, it was one of those games where we received nothing, and then they were chatting and laughing with the other coach & players after the game ... so maybe not so much a lack of courage and more a lack of character & integrity.

On the plus side, and it's a huge plus, my son abhors racism as he's seen & heard it first hand, impacting on his buddies.

Not a teaching moment or life lesson I ever expected from youth soccer, but maybe one of the most important things he'll ever get out of it.
 
Surfref said:
One of the members of the referee crew has to hear the comment. I have never heard a racist comment as a center, but have as an AR and been frustrated by the lack of courage by the CRs to do anything. As an AR, I had a player drop the N word on an opponent and flagged It. The CR did nothing and told me, “he’s in high school so he has heard it before.” I have had this happen several times. Completely unacceptable.

The other problem I have had is the lack of support from the referee associations. I and other refs I know have ejected players, coaches and parents for inappropriate comments toward players and using profanity, only to catch crap from our referee association board members. A few years ago At State Cup, I removed all of the spectators from one teams sideline. The parents were using profanity and making inappropriate comments to the 14 year old girls from the other team. I warned them and had the coach warned them twice. I had them removed when one dad yelled, “stop that f’ing bitch.” I caught crap from two association board members Working the tournament. The associations (club and HS) should be supporting the referees instead of making the issuance of a red card a bad thing.

I had a HS coach come at me after a game dropping the f-bomb and I showed him a red card. The next day I got two calls, one from the assigner and one a board member. The first thing I heard was “did you really have to eject him after the game?” Then they went on to tell me what I should have done and tell me that coach said I did not call a good game. They were not at the game and believed the f-bomb coach. This lack of support leads referees to not want to issue cards.
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I'm glad you stood your ground to do the right thing. I've always respected the refs that have admonished and then carry out the consequences. I agree that the association should support refs and make sure they emphasize this is the normal expectation in youth sports, all sports. Hopefully what happened at the Albion tournament earlier this year and this stance by the Loyals will make the ref association and leadership more supportive of refs admonishing and carrying out consequences for bad actors. If the leadership doesn't, tell us who we need to write to or how to show the ref team our support for doing the right thing.

Woobie06 and Crush - I would have done the same thing but I'm glad someone else found a long term solution. The problem with our individual quiet action is - ref associations and managing associations have not and will not create rules or enforce rules to prevent these repetitive problems and they continue to be long term problems.

In light of the fact that this is a recurring problem, not handled properly by the coaches and referees, and is occurring during the course of the game, the SD Loyal's actions were necessary.

One loss to force the league and ref association to make a good change towards these types of bad acts in ALL future games? Worth it. They've gained a fan. Looking into season tickets next season for our entire family. Karma. We tell our kids, there's more to winning and losing in games but we rarely are good examples of this. This is one we can actually point to and it's soccer related.
 
Woobie06 said:
I agree I was called a bunch of stuff as well as my mother, sister, etc. back in the day. Not saying it was right. Different world we live in today...many people are very sensitive, on edge, woke, and offended by just about anything that is said. You gotta be careful what you say, because your opinion, belief, or perspective can get you in hot water if somebody finds it “offensive” or if it is different from theirs.
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Yeah, I guess people gotta be careful about their gay slurs cuz somebody might find it “offensive.” How ridiculous that people don’t just let bigotry slide.
 
Woobie06 said:
I’m not denying it was said...or supporting it...or saying their choice to walk off was wrong...Personally I’d be calling out the other coach, refs, etc...the league...I’m just saying I would not have walked off and let a shitbag take something from me. There are many ways to go about fighting against something that is wrong. Walking off in protest is one way, not the only way.

There was something similar in the NBA recently where one player said something to another, it was racial, heard by many and it was worked out. Nobody walked off the court, people took responsibility, and moved on.

Not everything needs a be a social justice movement...some people are just assholes, need to be called on it...hopefully they learn and change...always going to be assholes in the world. No cure for that.
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Not everything needs to a place where it’s ok to engage in bigotry.

Of course, given the magnitude of this epic soccer match between two teams no one has ever heard of
in a league no one has ever heard of, maybe the stakes were just so great that they should have just excused bigotry. I mean, how will these players and their army of fans ever recover if they don’t make the playoffs. Lives are at stake for god’s sake!
 
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