7v7 was a joke at SURF CUP

timbuck said:
When the new rules came out, I thought "This is awesome. We are smack dab at the inflection point of when youth soccer in the US will propel our players to compete on an international stage when they are adults."
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a large part of why we don't compete on the big soccer stage well, because we don't have 11 year olds playing soccer several hours a day? I was under the impression that other Countries just take the sport and the training of their youth, much more seriously than us...
 
I still don't get why the coaches aren't held at fault for this? No matter how the other team is playing you can tell your kids "goalie, play the ball on goal kicks and punts." "No shots from kickoff or free kicks." Etc etc etc. it could've been a valuable weekend to play soccer in small spaces. REGARDLESS of how the other team was playing.

Field measurements, tourney hosts, refs are all irrelevant. If your coaches aren't teaching your kids to play soccer they either don't know how to teach it or don't care enough to teach it. The blame is theirs. Yes you may lose. And may lose big. But is the goal to win a tourney or develop your kids?
 
full90 said:
...is the goal to win a tourney or develop your kids?
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Don't you spend all your time developing outside of tournaments. Why bother spending the extra money on a tourney if it isn't all about going for a win? If all you want is pure development, stick to practice and scrimmages.
 
Wez said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a large part of why we don't compete on the big soccer stage well, because we don't have 11 year olds playing soccer several hours a day? I was under the impression that other Countries just take the sport and the training of their youth, much more seriously than us...
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I think there's a lot of "little parts" of why we don't compete. Here's a partial list of what people say are the reasons:
  1. We focus too much on winning at young ages
  2. Our college system sucks for developing soccer pros
  3. We don't have a soccer culture
  4. Our kids are over-coached
  5. Our kids are taught tactics when they should be taught technical aspects
  6. Our parents don't understand the rules
  7. Our parents scream incorrect instructions to players
  8. We play 11v11 at too early of an age
  9. Our kids don't play pick up soccer
  10. Top teams take big kids and teach them to play physical before they teach them how to really play.
  11. Top teams take fast kids and win games because they area fast. But don't teach them how to really play
  12. Top teams take an 8 year old that can kick it a mile, but they don't teach him how to really play
  13. Our pro league is the UEFA Senior Tour
  14. We either play too much (year round) or not enough (only 2 practices a week)
  15. Tournaments have kids playing 4 games in 36 hours. Or up to 6 games in 50 hours.
I'm sure there's more.
 
Wez said:
Don't you spend all your time developing outside of tournaments. Why bother spending the extra money on a tourney if it isn't all about going for a win? If all you want is pure development, stick to practice and scrimmages.
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Trust me, you'll soon get your wish. As DA expands into lower age groups, and kids and parents start to reassess their goals, all you weekend warriors will be free to move the goals wherever you want, do flip-throws into the box, ignore the build out line - whatever you want - 'til your heart's content.

Competition at the sub-14 level should be about players trying to kill each other, not teams.
 
We throw the term "Kickball" a lot around here, but what I saw at the U10 level this weekend was Kickball in its finest and purest form.

I found the whole spectacle ironic. It was the perfect microcosm of our youth development system put on steroids. You had big strong footed players dominating. You had 60% of the coaches abandoning any semblance of development and doing absurd tactics for the sake of a u10 trophy. Another 30% of the coaches reluctant but eventually feeling the need to roll in the mud as well to compete. Then about 10% of the coaches stubbornly sticking to development while getting their butts kicked in the process. Crazy parents abound. Passersby who are not in the bubble just completely stunned at what is being passed off as competitive soccer. That is US youth soccer in a nutshell if it was placed inside a diorama for a science fair.

Surf Cup probably should have enforced the new rules alongside the new field dimensions, but honestly this is the very first tournament with the new changes, so they probably get a free pass. But they're going to have to make some major adjustments next year otherwise they shouldn't even bother having a bracket in this age group
 
full90 said:
I still don't get why the coaches aren't held at fault for this? No matter how the other team is playing you can tell your kids "goalie, play the ball on goal kicks and punts." "No shots from kickoff or free kicks." Etc etc etc. it could've been a valuable weekend to play soccer in small spaces. REGARDLESS of how the other team was playing.
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I don't think anyone is giving the kickball coaches a break at all. However, what US Soccer is doing with the 7v7 tiny fields is only excerbating kickball soccer not reducing it. Adjusting the rules for a play out line and no punting is fine but that's just the tip of the iceberg for the rules that would have to be changed to truly encourage quick passing soccer on that small of a field (I'm all for small, but not so tiny that it fundamentally changes the game). At the point when you have implemented all these different rules you will have completely bastardized outdoor soccer. And for what reason when you already have futsal that encourages the sort of play that US Soccer is seeking? As its crafted right now the tiny 7v7 game will only serve to improve the kids throw-in and shot making skills.

I think someone mentioned it before but game play is only a small fraction of actually training time that kids receive. The practice field is the place to promote tight, small sided soccer.
 
My son guest played as a keeper this weekend and loved it. He thought it was fast and full of action I do think it is a different style game on these small fields and in my opinion will help the kids with ball skills,passing and shooting not to mention you will definitely need a keeper who will also benefit from all the shots. And yes punts should not be allowed and build up line should be used. You can watch short videos on Instagram @ soccerkeeper1310
 
watfly said:
I don't think anyone is giving the kickball coaches a break at all. However, what US Soccer is doing with the 7v7 tiny fields is only excerbating kickball soccer not reducing it. Adjusting the rules for a play out line and no punting is fine but that's just the tip of the iceberg for the rules that would have to be changed to truly encourage quick passing soccer on that small of a field (I'm all for small, but not so tiny that it fundamentally changes the game). At the point when you have implemented all these different rules you will have completely bastardized outdoor soccer. And for what reason when you already have futsal that encourages the sort of play that US Soccer is seeking? As its crafted right now the tiny 7v7 game will only serve to improve the kids throw-in and shot making skills.

I think someone mentioned it before but game play is only a small fraction of actually training time that kids receive. The practice field is the place to promote tight, small sided soccer.
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I think a lot of the points I read in here are valid, but my issue with the field sizes and changes is you can't implement one part rule (field size) and not the other (no punting, build out line) without seeing a sacrifice in quality of play which is what was observed out there this weekend or any of the other tournaments that have used these field sizes which is soccer played the "wrong" way as it is called by some. I absolutely agree that the real development of players is what practices are for, where a coach can stop play or explain in more detail why or why not players should do things outside of the pressures and temptations of a game setting. Games have become showcases for clubs to try and win at all costs to gain bragging rights and for parents who never get to one practice, a chance to become armchair coaches and get the satisfaction of watching their kid become the next Alex Morgan/Landon Donovan or justifying why they paid these thousands of dollars to a more prestigious club as opposed to another.

Someone mentioned earlier that the small sized fields force players to play in tight spaces and learn to make quicker decisions which will translate better once they get to a bigger field setting which is why small sides games are played in practice. The difference is small sided games in practices don't use the large goals but rather smaller goals like Pugg. I think therein lies the problem and the conundrum with these fields in games, yes it's the coaches responsibility to implement otherwise, but the temptation on a small field with a big goal in my opinion just defeats the whole purpose of teaching the kids the right way when you add the excitement of a game in a tournament in a setting where winning is looked upon as the ultimate prize by a club and parents. A field that small with goals just big enough to make practically anywhere on the field a scoring opportunity including goalie punts, then it just snowballs as most teams fall in line and the intent of playing the right way with these rule changes is not achieved. Small fields with small goals forces build up, strategy, and precision to score and you can't shoot/punt from the other side of the field to score, while small fields with larger goals would be more slanted towards kickball on goal and win at all costs which is what was observed for the most part this weekend. Of course no one would pay $1500 a team to go play each other on Pugg goals so it is what is at this point.

Either you play with all the rules intended or you go back to what it was last year, but you can't have both and still achieve the desired result that US youth soccer wants.
 
silverstreak said:
1. 6 goals scored by keeper punts
2. several goals scored on direct kickoff shots
3. hardly any goalkeeper distributions out of the back
4. pressure line NOT implemented
5. Poor display of quality soccer or team play (win at all cost mentallity)
6. Throw ins back post....lol

at the end of the day U.S soccer and Surf Cup got it wrong......these girls are too fast, too skilled, too strong to be bottled up and the use of the small sided game was non existent............hence win at all cost ...Ugly Ugly Ugly........survival game.......smash it from anywhere on the field at your chance of a goal.......i talked to several coaches and they were actually apologetic after winning ugly games.....AND THEY SAY THIS IS GOOD FOR OUR KIDS????? blues cup, surf thanksgiving expect many teams at this age to pull out.....good luck
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Legends Cup at Silver Lakes earlier this summer had the same field size. That too was a disaster. There was no flow this weekend as well with throw ins every minute. Only solution I see is add 10 plus yards for the length, 5 more yards each side for the width, no punts only roll outs, no direct kicks for kick offs. If you keep that size you need to go 5v5 with a heavier futsal ball. Every coach, parent, spectator were shaking their heads this weekend. Coaches played by the rules they were given - I do not fault them as this was an expensive trip/tourney for all. Bottom line adjustments need to be made.
 
Hired Gun said:
Legends Cup at Silver Lakes earlier this summer had the same field size. That too was a disaster. There was no flow this weekend as well with throw ins every minute. Only solution I see is add 10 plus yards for the length, 5 more yards each side for the width, no punts only roll outs, no direct kicks for kick offs. If you keep that size you need to go 5v5 with a heavier futsal ball. Every coach, parent, spectator were shaking their heads this weekend. Coaches played by the rules they were given - I do not fault them as this was an expensive trip/tourney for all. Bottom line adjustments need to be made.
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I do agree with the throw ins and flow of the game being off as well as the shots from kick off. I also think their is potentially a huge up side I do think the game is faster and will force players to improve their foot skills, passing,possession and no one ever talks about more touches for the keepers. I did see negative aspects but i saw huge potential in what could happen 1v1 creativity quick crisp passing and building from the back. I will also say again my son who some of you might know loves to play the keeper position and was all smiles. He loved the action and the pace he did not have a winning weekend but he had a great weekend of fun. This style seems to have created more touches for everyone and yes some clubs will play a better style than others but most importantly my son is super excited to get started. Check out some surf cup action on Instagram @ soccerkeeper1310 and get a goalies point of view.
 
We played at Legends cup this year also. First game had no keeper punts and build out line was used. 2nd game refs allowed keeper punts and no buildout line was used. Third game we played on a field twice the size of the first two games and resembled more of a 8v8 game. Bottom line is until all parties are trained(including Ref's)/informed of all the new rules/mandates we should play the 8v8 rules/field size.
 
We were at legends as well and I agree it was odd. It may be my imagination but I thought Surf fields were smaller.
 
Wez said:
Don't you spend all your time developing outside of tournaments. Why bother spending the extra money on a tourney if it isn't all about going for a win? If all you want is pure development, stick to practice and scrimmages.
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Specific to playing in Surf Cup, you are probably correct. But as for other <U13 teams, going to one or two tournaments (and not 6 in a summer) and playing the style you train is part of the development process. The kids experience what a tournament is like, see how other teams play and handle their business, and grow from it, win or lose. Because ultimately #15 on the list above, "Tournaments have kids playing 4 games in 36 hours. Or up to 6 games in 50 hours." really is detrimental.
 
jrcaesar said:
Because ultimately #15 on the list above, "Tournaments have kids playing 4 games in 36 hours. Or up to 6 games in 50 hours." really is detrimental.
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I disagree. My 11 year old did this and yes, was tired by the end of Monday, but this is an experience well worth the effort:

Strikers%20Surf%20Cup%20win_zpsiddb5euh.jpg
 
jrcaesar said:
Specific to playing in Surf Cup, you are probably correct. But as for other <U13 teams, going to one or two tournaments (and not 6 in a summer) and playing the style you train is part of the development process. The kids experience what a tournament is like, see how other teams play and handle their business, and grow from it, win or lose. Because ultimately #15 on the list above, "Tournaments have kids playing 4 games in 36 hours. Or up to 6 games in 50 hours." really is detrimental.
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Interesting take. I hadn't ever really thought about too many tournaments being a negative, but it got me digging around and reading a few articles. The arguments against them that I've read so far do make a lot of sense. I clearly still have a lot to learn as a club soccer parent.
 
Goalie1310 said:
I do agree with the throw ins and flow of the game being off as well as the shots from kick off. I also think their is potentially a huge up side I do think the game is faster and will force players to improve their foot skills, passing,possession and no one ever talks about more touches for the keepers. I did see negative aspects but i saw huge potential in what could happen 1v1 creativity quick crisp passing and building from the back. I will also say again my son who some of you might know loves to play the keeper position and was all smiles. He loved the action and the pace he did not have a winning weekend but he had a great weekend of fun. This style seems to have created more touches for everyone and yes some clubs will play a better style than others but most importantly my son is super excited to get started. Check out some surf cup action on Instagram @ soccerkeeper1310 and get a goalies point of view.
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Thanks for sharing, looks like the GKs were really busy. No dog in this fight as mine is an 03, but it was fun watching your vids!

Link for the lazy - https://www.instagram.com/soccerkeeper1310/
 
US Soccer recommends that tournaments shouldn't be played at younger ages. Will the new dimensions / rules cause teams to rethink their future tournament participation?
JayWill said:
Interesting take. I hadn't ever really thought about too many tournaments being a negative, but it got me digging around and reading a few articles. The arguments against them that I've read so far do make a lot of sense. I clearly still have a lot to learn as a club soccer parent.
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Tournaments are fun. Kids enjoy them. For the most part, parents enjoy them. But that doesn't mean they are "good" for players.
We don't ask or expect adults to play multiple games in a day. Sure, kids have free subs, while adults play the majority of a 90 minute game.
But the point of youth sports is to learn and improve from week to week. Not much learning and improvement take place in the 3 hours between games. It becomes a war of attrition. The Development Academy concept is to have more and better training but to play less games that are more "meaningful."
Many teams play 6 tournaments a summer. That's anywhere from 18 to 36 games over the course of an 8 week summer.
Mix in hot turf fields and/or subpar grass fields. Fatigue and bad playing surfaces can lead to injuries.
And then you have coaches who want 10 year olds to act like professional athletes. "No sleepovers, no pool time, no ice cream on tournament weekends." These things might lead to a drop in performance, but they also lead a 10 year old to burnout. There are some kids out there that will thrive in this environment. I think they are in the minority.
 
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