Actually 4k a year is not that bad. Figure 3 hours of training and 2 hours of game time and warm up every week for 50 weeks is 250 hours of coach's time on weekends none the less as well. Then consider equipment, fields, etc. $4,000 divided by 250 hours is $16 per hour. Day care is more expensive, so club costs are a great deal imo. Traveling for playoffs to Seattle or Virginia though will add another $5k to $10k. These are the costs that I think get egregious and that is more for the leagues. I doubt coaches, directors, and/or clubs are getting rich. They are most likely doing what they love.
2023-24 Season
- Thread starter CharlieMurfee
- Start date
Actually 4k a year is not that bad. Figure 3 hours of training and 2 hours of game time and warm up every week for 50 weeks is 250 hours of coach's time on weekends none the less as well. Then consider equipment, fields, etc. $4,000 divided by 250 hours is $16 per hour. Day care is more expensive, so club costs are a great deal imo. Traveling for playoffs to Seattle or Virginia though will add another $5k to $10k. These are the costs that I think get egregious and that is more for the leagues. I doubt coaches, directors, and/or clubs are getting rich. They are most likely doing what they love.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Not to start another pricing thread - it doesn't have to happen - but some of the top clubs in norcal are already well over 5K/year for just club dues (no uniforms, travel, extra tournament fees, whatever), and this is for teams that are nowhere near even RL quality, down to 3-4 rungs lower. Yes, that's the rack rate, and I'm sure there are deals to be had - but it is not nearly an anomaly; club soccer has continued to be less affordable.
Private Equity has effectively entered the space, it's only going to get worse from here.
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
Private Equity will quickly leave as soon as parents get their numbers and start complaining to them
It's all about the EBITDA. If that's good enough, nothing else matters.
I'm glad they're doing what they said they were intending to do...
So many times I feel like coaches and DOCs say "play well on the 2nd team and you can get on the 1st team!" but it's a lie... they recruit from outside the club to fill both teams...
So if RL to NL player flow is happening, kudos to them!
I have a lot of opinions that are not facts yet about different style and skills learned. For instance, the girls that are ecnl level, but play in RL may get a lot of looks at the goal and get more experience finishing in RL. Some may argue that the competition is easier and ECNL has better defense, but the actual finishing opportunities in a game (game time reps) may be more available in RL especially for players that are as good as ECNL Players. They may not get the pressure, but they could be fine tuning their bend and instincts? This will make them better finishers in ECNL imo.
For defenders though, I want to play the best offense and have constant pressure. Part of why I don't care if my daughter is on the best team. I want her to get the best game time pressure and competition, but I'd rather her be on a team that does not just feed a killer forward line or avoid a lot of pressure defensively due to crazy good midfielders. I want my daughter to have experience handling 2 on 1s or fast freight train forwards, etc. I do want her team to be good though. They have to be able to play from the back and pass through the press. I want to win, but my ultimate goal is to build a college athlete.
I used to play tennis casually competitively and the ultimate way to train was to play against someone better and also someone not as good. You play more tense and consistent against the better player, but you can play loose and take risks vs the player not as good. Another words, you develop and build aggressive instincts against the easier opposition that you eventually use against the better player. If you just play the better player, you end up playing tight and predictable.
The stress and pressure is also a lot for a young adult let alone a teenager. King Richard is a movie people should see. Venus Williams Dad did not want her playing in the junior circuit. He did not like the stress and pressure they faced there. The thing is his daughters were incredible athletes with size and power, so the biggest hurdles were going to be their own heads and bodies. There is a balance to all this. If you have an incredible athlete, the worst thing you can do is kill their joy and bodies with over use of the body. You can win and have fun though and some kids will need to be incredibly skilled to make up for lack of speed/athleticism depending on position.
You have to ask yourelf, would you rather your kid be an outstanding, healthy athlete performing in front of college recruiters or a pretty good player on a top team? Many are choosing to be on the top team rather than where the kid will develop best. Most times it takes a good system to move your kid for best development. Too many parents only see what they consider being dropped.
Point is that kids can develop faster on lower flights and always build back up. So long as the club invites this movement, it's very healthy, positive, and most likely more local and convenient. Too many parents move in packs and lose better development for labels or individual standing. When they earn their spots, nothing can stop them. Parents are part of the problem. They will work in bundles and do whatever they can to avoid the lower flight stigmas. Smart parents focus on where the kid will develop, have fun, and learn to love the competition. Having a club with a good leveling system is very helpful imo.
Clubs have to contend with parents, so it's not just the clubs that create the toxic situations.
You know I've been thinking about this concept.
My kid plays on the top team for his age group at a club. A lot of times they play up in tournaments. I guess the idea is to develop kids vs bigger, faster, stronger opponents and so their age group becomes easier?
I get that. But to your point, I do see something missing when it's playing vs toughest opponents whether via playing up or just playing really good teams in general: there is lack of creativity and taking risks.
The games end 2-1, 1-0 and both teams end up bunkering down and playing really good defense because defense wins... And learning to defend is really important too... But I wonder if for youth, it's better to have a score line of 8-5, 7-6. I don't wanna see a 15-0 either which has happened when the team met a flight 2 team in a random tournament a couple of years ago. But a competitive high scoring game I think would be good.
I do wonder sometimes if I should take my kid down a flight... but I can see cons in that too... If only there were ways to stay on his current team... but also mix in some games in lower flights where he gets to try stuff he would never in games with his current team... hmmmmm
Reach out to the B team team coach and ask to do privates. What will happen is when the B team coach needs extra players for a tournamant they'll call you to see if your kid can guest play. If your current coach asks about doing privates with the B team coach say that you were told that you couldn't do privates with your current coach.
I like this idea when they are young they should be exposed to both the hard and the easier games where they can dominate and try new things. Eventually as they get older they should not lose creativity if they train in an instinctive manner where they react to pressure and make decisions based on what they are experiencing in real time. Many mistaken being creative with fancy skills and tricks but it’s not that it’s knowing when to pass and when to dribble and still be creative in the right part of the field. This will only be attained by training 1v1 and playing small sided games. The most creative players have dropped the structured cone drills by age 13 because they have the technical basics & good enough first touch now. They train freely, under pressure and develop creative skills playing through instinct… all of this happening at the hardest environment for the age group. This is where you develop elite creative players.
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When players are young, futsal, futsal, futsal. As they get older arena and "latin leagues" this is how you maximize touches + gain tight spaces ball control. You could also do things like unstructured play in the park or just general pickup games.
Let your field coach teach large field tactics and plays but don't forget to keep training for the small sided game.
Reguarding playing up and "down" it doesn't really matter. Different skill levels offer different opportunities. For the parents that say XYZ team cheated because they're playing players down on B teams. Let it go in the end it doesn't matter. Think of it as an opportunity for your kid to better conceptualize what it takes to play at a higher level.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
I've been on all sides of this over the years with multiple kids, from playing up & down in both age and experience. IMO, pulling a better kid down to the lower team such that their presence will materially affect the game outcome, is crappy behavior by the coach. It's not up to their parents to educate the kids/parents on the lower team opponents about how to "better conceptualize" what it means to perform better. It's presumptuous and selfish. However, playing a kid both down on a lower team and also remain on an upper team so they can work on various skills, confidence, whatever, can be incredibly helpful - and is a very good development benefit for any kid that at that moment is on that bubble, and fits reasonably well on both teams.
New rules in Norcal this season, allowing only 3 kids on the match card to come down from an upper team, and only 2 kids on the match card to come up from a lower team. It was getting pretty wild at times last season with it being pretty obvious coaches were playing way more than that from the top team, also on their 2nd (and even 3rd) teams. This should make it somewhat more challenging to stack the lower teams with ringers.
FYI, the playoffs next year will be at the Surf fields which is just as good. I think the experience in Richmond is also great, although expensive.
Lots of times it's a kid that is just missing something to be on the ECNL for whatever reason that is placed in RL or another letter team. They need to be more physical or learn to switch speeds and gain more composure, whatever. Sometimes they will even move the kid to an older RL Team if they have the physicality and just need to work on things too. There are so many options, but game time experience builds natural game instincts , so it's ver beneficial to play up as a team and then play down and/or sometimes even. Depending on position, your kid can build better position specific game time skills with the options.
Imagine if they converted more tennis courts to public small game fields. 3 on 3 or more pick up games at every local park where kids can just go play for fun and get creative then go play with their teams and training. It doesn't have to be futsal either. It could be with a deflated normal ball or whatever, but smaller fields easier to find enough players for regular pick up games.
Bringing in "ringers" or "guest players" is going to happen no matter what if you're looking to play at the highest levels.
Might as well embrace it and learn how to deal with it. Creating rulebook changes to make it happen less often only delays the inevitable.
The top clubs have ringers from around the US trying out throughout the season. College is a collection is ringers. USWNT is a collection of super ringers.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
What's good for the top 1% of teams across youth soccer may not be good for the remaining 99%. It very well might be - but it's certainly possible that there are differences at play. If one population of teams has the main goal of identifying and growing the truly rare talent, and another population of teams has the main goal of promoting fair play for the masses - it's pretty clear there are likely going to be different priorities. Allowing for cheating if not the letter of the rules, but certainly the spirit of them, in playing down exceptional players to win games against lesser teams, is crappy behavior. It's not something to just "get used to", it's something that coaches should be ashamed of.