Yes, I know. My son's team does this regularly; it's not a trick play, but can be surprising for opponents, since my son can throw the ball quite far (he also plays volleyball). They also do the "throw-in as a pseudo corner kick" play usually a couple times a game as well.
SoCal league ref training and qualification
- Thread starter TrailBraking
- Start date
"Most people" don't know that a player cannot be called offside anywhere on the field when receiving the ball directly from a goal kick. This works really well when the kicker (usually the keeper) can kick a long way on a small field.
My son just got moved to a CR for a low level SoCal game this weekend. He has over 25 AYSO games at CR under his belt but hasn't done club at CR. It was explained to him they start you at U12 girls, lower level, to see how you do. He asked about U10 games since it's more money....no go...old timers have an iron hold on them. They are starting him with a slightly more experienced ref at AR to mentor.
for the record, this is 1000% incorrect
11.3 No offence
There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:- a goal kick
- a throw-in
- a corner kick
Law 11 - Offside | IFAB
Offside in football, offside rule football, offside rule introduced
www.theifab.com
Awesome. Hope it went well. AYSO is a great place to get a basis, and an experienced AR is a good move.
Don't forget that experienced ref, operating as AR is losing money AND doing more work because he's helping the new ref.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
I think you may have misread his comment. An offside offense cannot be called on the 3 things you listed - which is what he stated.
As you pointed out, this is a great thread to illustrate the inconstancy of understanding the Laws of the Game by parents and players (so be humble out there). There is still something wrong with your understanding of a proper throw-in. Part of each foot must be either on the touchline or on the ground outside the touchline when the ball is released (not just one foot).
It is wise to take anyone's complaint about reffing from u10 and below with a grain of salt. They usually are new to the sport and almost always don't know the Laws of the Game. Or even if they played at a decent level in their youth it was likely 25-30 years back and they havn't kept up with changes to the Laws. Finally - reffing is hard, almost everything is subjective and everyone has a different line of vision. Refs literally don't see the same thing as the side-line parent or coach. Add in that the side-line parent and coach have and obvious bias and that sometimes mistakes are made.
Chill out and give the refs a break.
Thankfully parents seem to chill year by year as they get older. I get more and more shocked at sideline behavior at the u7-u10 level the further I move away from it.
Yup; I misstated this (obvious in retrospect), but I have the same understanding. I just didn't look up the exact rule verbiage. My point was just that one could now technically be entirely within the field of play while releasing a ball (ie: both feet touching the inside of the line), and this would now be legal (whereas this was not legal ~40 years ago, when I was first getting FIFA certified).
Thank you for your polite correction. I get it now. He meant players are "allowed" to be in an offside position on a throw in, aka allowed to be "offside" (which they aren't because it was a throw in andyou cant be offside on a throw in!)
Of course, its not an offense to be in an offside position, it only becomes an offense if you are in an offside position and interfere with play.
I'd like to also point out that a lot of conceptual discussions about this are fairly academic. We had a sideline ref on our recent EA2 game which called an illegal throw in when both the player's feet were obviously touching the line (he called it inside the field); clearly wrong, and the ref was looking clearly at it, he was just completely ignorant of the actual (simple) rule discussed above. I've seen the same for other throw-in violations such as I mentioned, but the point is the same: the refs, even for the "letter leagues", are often shockingly ignorant of the rules, in addition to being pretty lazy in general. We also have had many blatantly incorrect offside calls, where the AR was just too lazy/rotund to even walk the line, and just guessed after the offensive player received the ball (often very incorrectly, as it turns out, when reviewing video).
The point is just that many of the refs are shockingly ignorant and bad, and it doesn't really matter what league you're playing in, or age group, or anything else. And they are not going to get better, since there's no effective way to report bad officiating and/or get bad refs assigned less (or trained more). The quality of officiating you get game-to-game is pretty random. You can yell at bad refs for being bad, or accept it in silence, or whatever; nothing is going to really impact the quality of officiating, until or unless your player gets good enough to play in the top leagues, where there presumably is some accountability for at least knowing the rules.
My theory is that as parents get older, the refs don't get better, but parents get more accepting of the general crappy quality of officiating, and lower their expectations accordingly. I'm pretty much in the "just let the kids play now, nobody here is ever going pro" camp now.
The point is just that many of the refs are shockingly ignorant and bad, and it doesn't really matter what league you're playing in, or age group, or anything else. And they are not going to get better, since there's no effective way to report bad officiating and/or get bad refs assigned less (or trained more). The quality of officiating you get game-to-game is pretty random. You can yell at bad refs for being bad, or accept it in silence, or whatever; nothing is going to really impact the quality of officiating, until or unless your player gets good enough to play in the top leagues, where there presumably is some accountability for at least knowing the rules.
My theory is that as parents get older, the refs don't get better, but parents get more accepting of the general crappy quality of officiating, and lower their expectations accordingly. I'm pretty much in the "just let the kids play now, nobody here is ever going pro" camp now.
Latino league belies the point. I once had to call the cops during a Latino league tournament because players and parents were duking it out and there were injuries on the field. These were 17 and 18 year old. Also high school can be particularly brutal.
The chill as you go up in age and level is because: 1. The quality does improve in the letter leagues and you do get full ars (sorry but it’s impossible for a 2 man or solo ref to catch everything), 2. Parents don’t want to jeapordize slots on top teams (where the competition is fierce and slots are limited) 3. Parents and players come to understand chasing the trophy just isn’t important and it’s about college and high school slots so the stakes are less 4. Once they are around enough the parents actually get better at the rules and 5. They worry less about a 16 year old that should be able to take care of themselves than a 10-12 year old that’s just a baby and may be facing huge size disparities.
I think the rest of your points are valid, except for the quality improving in the letter leagues; my experience does not show that. In my example above, it was the AR who was flat wrong about the throw-in rules, and the AR's who are too lazy to run the line to properly call offside (and in some cases, seem to only judge after the player receives the ball). We have also had a number of "sprinkler" CR's, who can't be bothered to walk further than the extent of the center circle. The quality is no better than SoCal League on average, in my experience (it may improve at the highest leagues, but at the lower letter leagues, it's still hit/miss, and the misses are garbage tier).
I want to be clear: officials are not all bad, and probably 75% are good (although I'd estimate at least 50% judge throw-in violations by "feel", as opposed to knowing the actual rules, as one area where the majority of officials seem to get it wrong regularly). But the percentage of "bad" seems to be roughly equivalent across all leagues (and tournaments, fwiw), and you should not expect the quality of officiating to be correlated to the quality of play in any sense.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
You gotta get past EA if you want to see better refs on average. There are "bad" refs everywhere, at every level. But I tend to see them much less at the MLS and ECNL level than virtually all of the lower levels of play. In the past few years I can't think of an instance where a "bad" ref's call or no-call made a difference in game outcome, or even had a tangible effect on how a game played out. There is most certainly a correlation between level of play and ref quality (and field quality / coaching quality / team member commitment / etc. ) Whether it's worth the time/money involved is certainly still a fair question.
Having an ar that’s flat wrong is still better than no ar. They are also doing multiple games because the pay isn’t worth it to just go out for 1 and if they are past their 20s that can be pretty difficult. And ea is flight 3, ea2 is flight 4….the quality in mlsn hg, ecnl and even mlsn ad is better.
But ultimately if you want a better ar you’ve got to pay them more. You’ve got to make it worth it so that an ar will travel out for 1 or 2 games tops, make a comfortable wad from those two games, and not try to conserve their legs. None of them want to do the ar. All of them want to do the u10 u12 games where they can stand in the center circle and not run. The newbs get the lower paid at assignments. You get what you pay for. You’d have to substantially raise the club dues.