Rich Man Advantage in Soccer

NoGoal said:
My family is asian and the asian culture doesn't place much value on organized youth sports. The culture is study, study, study some more and work hard. Asian families can afford the club fees.
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Correction, old school asian culture discouraged sports. My brother and I had to sneak around our parents back in high school to play soccer (oh, how our kids don't realize how good they have it). A good way to get Asian families into soccer is to tell them that having them standout as an athlete (with grades) is a good way to get them into an ivy league school...LOL.
 
NoGoal said:
My family is asian and the asian culture doesn't place much value on organized youth sports. The culture is study, study, study some more and work hard. Asian families can afford the club fees.
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that's quite an oversimplified generalization, don't you think? Especially given the vast scope of "asian culture" not to mention the cultural differences between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generation AsianAmericans. I believe Calisoccer's post was spot on with respect to their response to the "Well represented" comment. It seems quite apparent that even in Southern California, one of the most ethnically diverse places in the entire WORLD, that the fields are in fact, NOT well represented. Why that is, is perhaps irrelevant for this particular post, and whether it has more to do with economic accessibility and opportunity is a far deeper topic for discussion than a youth club soccer forum. :)
 
Braveheart said:
that's quite an oversimplified generalization, don't you think? Especially given the vast scope of "asian culture" not to mention the cultural differences between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generation AsianAmericans.
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Nah, it's pretty spot on actually...lol. The irony of this is that in my parents' country soccer is considered to be a working man's sport. "Priveleged" or "rich" kids would be devoted to their academics.
 
Braveheart said:
that's quite an oversimplified generalization, don't you think? Especially given the vast scope of "asian culture" not to mention the cultural differences between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generation AsianAmericans. I believe Calisoccer's post was spot on with respect to their response to the "Well represented" comment. It seems quite apparent that even in Southern California, one of the most ethnically diverse places in the entire WORLD, that the fields are in fact, NOT well represented. Why that is, is perhaps irrelevant for this particular post, and whether it has more to do with economic accessibility and opportunity is a far deeper topic for discussion than a youth club soccer forum. :)
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Are you asian? Yes it is a generaliztion, because it's true about the culture. A lot of Asian parents have the Tiger Mom philosophy.

I am 2nd generation in the US...and ALL of the asian friends I had grow up with, it was all about GRADES. It's why so many attend UCLA, CAL, UCI, UCSD, And any other top UC school. Even today, my DD wouldn't be playing club soccer....if, her grades dropped below a 4.0 GPA. She knows school is before soccer.
 
NoGoal said:
Are you asian? Yes it is a generaliztion, because it's true about the culture. A lot of Asian parents have the Tiger Mom philosophy.

I am 2nd generation in the US...and ALL of the asian friends I had grow up with, it was all about GRADES. It's why so many attend UCLA, CAL, UCI, UCSD, And any other top UC school. Even today, my DD wouldn't be playing club soccer....if, her grades dropped below a 4.0 GPA. She knows school is before soccer.
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What sucked was I knew I wasn't as smart as my asian friends. I made sure my wife was intelligent so my kids could get her genes. :)
 
NoGoal said:
Are you asian? Yes it is a generaliztion, because it's true about the culture. A lot of Asian parents have the Tiger Mom philosophy.

I am 2nd generation in the US...and ALL of the asian friends I had grow up with it was all about GRADES. It's why so many attend UCLA, CAL, UCI, UCSD, And any other top UC school.
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I am 2nd generation as well...also typical asian pedigree...however, we are talking about our kids today...not OUR generation, but the 3rd/4th generation..for me and many/most/all of the asian folks I know that are 2nd gen and have youth age kids, they are involved in many organized sports activities and "believe" in the value of organized youth sports/activities. This is also true of my friends around the world in Asian countries where organized youth sports is interwoven into their kids day in and day out school experiences.

I don't disagree with the reality of the immigrant experience and our parents wanting something "more" for us especially as it pertains to "tiger parenting" and education...my parents never went to a single sporting event for me...because they were both working 70-80 hours a week... but for those of us that were born here, I think there is much more cultural nuance that a simplified generalization about asian culture doesn't quite capture. But again, this is a soccer forum...so there's that LOL...

This could be a whole BRAND NEW topic...LOL
 
Braveheart said:
I am 2nd generation as well...also typical asian pedigree...however, we are talking about our kids today...not OUR generation, but the 3rd/4th generation..for me and many/most/all of the asian folks I know that are 2nd gen and have youth age kids, they are involved in many organized sports activities and "believe" in the value of organized youth sports/activities. This is also true of my friends around the world in Asian countries where organized youth sports is interwoven into their kids day in and day out school experiences.

I don't disagree with the reality of the immigrant experience and our parents wanting something "more" for us especially as it pertains to "tiger parenting" and education...my parents never went to a single sporting event for me...because they were both working 70-80 hours a week... but for those of us that were born here, I think there is much more cultural nuance that a simplified generalization about asian culture doesn't quite capture. But again, this is a soccer forum...so there's that LOL...

This could be a whole BRAND NEW topic...LOL
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I agree, my parents also worked the extra overtime hours and yes our kids are 3rd/4th generation asian families. It's all part of assimilating into the US culture where sports is highly valued. Then again, our kids are 3rd generation and many Asian families are still 1st or 2nd generation in this country. They still don't value organized sports like we have for our kids. Thus, the reason not as many Asians playing organized sports and not because we can't afford it.
 
Braveheart said:
I am 2nd generation as well...also typical asian pedigree...however, we are talking about our kids today...not OUR generation, but the 3rd/4th generation..for me and many/most/all of the asian folks I know that are 2nd gen and have youth age kids, they are involved in many organized sports activities and "believe" in the value of organized youth sports/activities. This is also true of my friends around the world in Asian countries where organized youth sports is interwoven into their kids day in and day out school experiences.

I don't disagree with the reality of the immigrant experience and our parents wanting something "more" for us especially as it pertains to "tiger parenting" and education...my parents never went to a single sporting event for me...because they were both working 70-80 hours a week... but for those of us that were born here, I think there is much more cultural nuance that a simplified generalization about asian culture doesn't quite capture. But again, this is a soccer forum...so there's that LOL...

This could be a whole BRAND NEW topic...LOL
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Last post on this Asian subject. I know this is a small sample size, but look at the admission diversity at UCLA.....Asian's make up 32% (#1) of the undergrad population. I highly doubt Asian's account for 32% of any youth sport (maybe golf and tennis) in SoCal.

http://www.admission.ucla.edu/campusprofile.htm
 
Rich man advantage....Nonsense! 99.9% of private sessions are less impactful than playing at the park with your buddies. The player who doesn't have access to these trainers, but is motivated to go out and train through their own desire to get better, has at least as much advantage as any of those kids! Way too many trainers out there who don't have a specific individualized training program for kids? How
Many of the trainers you have hired have run an assessment/evaluation of your child before creating an individual training plan for your kid, beyond "she needs to work on her shooting." Nothing but respect for parents who provide these opportunities with their hard earned money, but how many of the worlds top players had private sessions as kids? It's probably more accurate to suggest that they had poor man advantage in many instances
 
I see what the original poster is getting at. If you're worrying about whether or not you'll have enough money for rent and food every day, you're not going to be in the position to drive to the ends of the earth for soccer tournaments. The reality is that those with less means are at a natural disadvantage. It doesn't mean those disadvantages are insurmountable though and those without means will have to work much harder to achieve the same results.

And yes, I am in the boat of those who sacrifice vacations and lots of leisure things in order to be able to pay for my kid to get private training. I recognize and accept that, yes, i am privileged that way. In lower income areas, the access and the environment are limiting.

And being the only kid of color on a team of all white kids can be tough. Seems like this happens more on the girls side than the boys. If it's not overt racism, you get subtle messages that make you feel different. For example, the day my kid pulled a spam musubi out of her soccer bag to eat between games she was met with a chorus of "ugh, what is that?!?" Not so fun when you're 9 years old and trying to make friends and fit in. Or the times parents call your kid in particular a "thug" when they're playing just as hard as all the other kids. For me these are teachable moments and that's fine.
 
Club Youth Soccer in America is mostly a privileged activity for suburban families that can afford the high cost(s)

Youth soccer has a big diversity problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

No body here is really poor and the rich people don't normally care for youth sports unless there kid is playing and they are trying to pull some strings or bulid these "super" teams.

Suburban youth soccer is most popular at what ages U10-U12? Kids love to play, learn the game, develop skills and they around the teenage years the numbers drop off dramatically and they stop playing and forget and soccer until they have kids and everything starts over again. Almost like a right of passage.

Kids have to love the game to continue to play, parents, coaches, and the current system we have does'nt help becuase we are don't foster the love the game, too much structure, playing to win, "elite" teams, division of leagues, etc. where soccer becomes a caste like system. We need a unified vision and for these orgs, clubs, etc to share and get along better on the same page.

What clubs or orgs (CS, usYS, usclub) need to do is more outreach and include the non-affiliated clubs and players that can't afford to play currently.

The MLS teams can do a better job of this also, like LAFC recently did with there ~ 50 non-affiliated team tournament at Bell Gardens this past weekend.

This takes $ and some people who are ranking in the big $ would have to step back for the greater good, for example every CS tourney could contribute 15% of the profits or off those ~ 100K "salaries" for the director(s) to go toward outreach programs or getting more kids involved.
 
Sunil Illuminati said:
Rich man advantage....Nonsense! 99.9% of private sessions are less impactful than playing at the park with your buddies.
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Agreed, the kid playing on their own everyday will get better (faster) than the kid with private trainer. BUT, the original poster is correct in that there is an initial barrier of entry since the average club costs are low to mid $2000's/year AND dual income families struggle with the ride situation. Those are two big factors for families to consider and is the reason why many choose not to go the club route and stick with AYSO.

younothat said:
Youth soccer has a big diversity problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football
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Not sure if I entirely agree with this. US has a lot of competition from other sports (basketball, football, baseball). And I don't think there's a problem with latino representation on the boys side (look at the latest 2006 ODP list).
 
bruinblue14 said:
I see what the original poster is getting at. If you're worrying about whether or not you'll have enough money for rent and food every day, you're not going to be in the position to drive to the ends of the earth for soccer tournaments. The reality is that those with less means are at a natural disadvantage. It doesn't mean those disadvantages are insurmountable though and those without means will have to work much harder to achieve the same results.

And yes, I am in the boat of those who sacrifice vacations and lots of leisure things in order to be able to pay for my kid to get private training. I recognize and accept that, yes, i am privileged that way. In lower income areas, the access and the environment are limiting.

And being the only kid of color on a team of all white kids can be tough. Seems like this happens more on the girls side than the boys. If it's not overt racism, you get subtle messages that make you feel different. For example, the day my kid pulled a spam musubi out of her soccer bag to eat between games she was met with a chorus of "ugh, what is that?!?" Not so fun when you're 9 years old and trying to make friends and fit in. Or the times parents call your kid in particular a "thug" when they're playing just as hard as all the other kids. For me these are teachable moments and that's fine.
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Thanks for getting it and for sharing your post.
 
Kicker4Life said:
So does desire, but it seems you're just hell bent on criticizing anyone who has the financial "advantage" as you imply. Some people work there asses off to provide for their kids. That doesn't mean they are privileged. Personally, we are a dual income family and we sacrifice plenty so our kids can have what we didn't. Is that privilege? No, it's called work ethic! You should try it on for size!

As for the original question, you can't pay for heart! If your kid has the heart and desire to work for it, money doesn't matter. Look at Lebron James. He didn't have the money for privates, he had the ability and the drive, the rest fell into place. It is no different for soccer. Read the story of Robaldinho, Suarez and many more. They came from the poorest of backgrounds and WORKED their way up.

Frankly, your position on this topic is offensive to those of use that work our asses off so our kids have a better life. Why do you call that "privelege"?
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I don't think I criticized anyone. I simply posed a question. Why are you so defensive? You know nothing about me or my work ethic. Why suggest that I "try it on for size" when you don't even know what mine is? You have no idea about the sacrifices I make for my child to be able simply play soccer. Believe me I work my ass off too. My kid has heart and a huge desire to play. Works harder than most kids I see. I'm by no means poor, simply not as wealthy as most other families whose kids play club soccer. Also please refer to my original post where you will notice the word "privilege" was never used by me so I'm not sure why you put that in quotation marks or suggested I mentioned it all! Lastly, if you feel so offended by this post take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself why.
 
Flipthrow said:
Fine with scholarships just let the club pay their way, but don't add it to my tab in the team tournament budget.
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I had a player that was a star player and we are not rich and we were willing to pay for a player who didn't have the means out of our own pockets. A couple of the other parents found out we were paying for her and they agreed to split the cost. The funniest part about it was the most well off family on the team complained about the player initially having her costs split up just like you are complaining. What that parent didn't know (didn't care to know) is that the family had a special needs kid at home among their 4 children that required a lot of care and this would have robbed this kid of the opportunity to play at the appropriate level.

Have a heart. Those that can should. We are all people here at the end of the day and we should try to pass on the blessings that we receive so that we in turn may be blessed.

Think about it.
 
MakeAPlay said:
I had a player that was a star player and we are not rich and we were willing to pay for a player who didn't have the means out of our own pockets. A couple of the other parents found out we were paying for her and they agreed to split the cost. The funniest part about it was the most well off family on the team complained about the player initially having her costs split up just like you are complaining. What that parent didn't know (didn't care to know) is that the family had a special needs kid at home among their 4 children that required a lot of care and this would have robbed this kid of the opportunity to play at the appropriate level.

Have a heart. Those that can should. We are all people here at the end of the day and we should try to pass on the blessings that we receive so that we in turn may be blessed.

Think about it.
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Sometimes I like you
 
MakeAPlay said:
I had a player that was a star player and we are not rich and we were willing to pay for a player who didn't have the means out of our own pockets. A couple of the other parents found out we were paying for her and they agreed to split the cost. The funniest part about it was the most well off family on the team complained about the player initially having her costs split up just like you are complaining. What that parent didn't know (didn't care to know) is that the family had a special needs kid at home among their 4 children that required a lot of care and this would have robbed this kid of the opportunity to play at the appropriate level.

Have a heart. Those that can should. We are all people here at the end of the day and we should try to pass on the blessings that we receive so that we in turn may be blessed.

Think about it.
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Thanks for sharing! It's great to see soccer families coming together to help out one of their own. The majority of us are lucky to be able to pay for competitive soccer, even if it means cutting back on other things. But there are those that can't take the time off work to drive to games, or even pay the gas to make those weekly drives. Some of these kids play in the Mexican league, or just in the park with friends. I'm sure there is a lot of untapped talent out there due to families not being able to afford club soccer.
 
MakeAPlay said:
I had a player that was a star player and we are not rich and we were willing to pay for a player who didn't have the means out of our own pockets. A couple of the other parents found out we were paying for her and they agreed to split the cost. The funniest part about it was the most well off family on the team complained about the player initially having her costs split up just like you are complaining. What that parent didn't know (didn't care to know) is that the family had a special needs kid at home among their 4 children that required a lot of care and this would have robbed this kid of the opportunity to play at the appropriate level

Have a heart. Those that can should. We are all people here at the end of the day and we should try to pass on the blessings that we receive so that we in turn may be blessed.

Think about it.
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I agree in principle in this post; however, the receipant should volunteer time to assist the parents in other activities such as bringing the bench, Ez up, or double duty at tounaments or fundrasiers. My experience in assisting funds with a family was that they did not help in anything, and did not show any appreciation whatsoever. SO after this behavior, i was completely turned off!
 
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