Dirty players

[younothat]

That's what I joke to my boy about, man you're a "dirty burt" Good thing he does his own laundry, he's' getting good at pre-treating the after game dirt/turf stains/marks.

Soccer is a player's game, ref just has some tools after the fact.

If your player is a Striker afterbody is after them, can seem like they don't get as many calls as they should, there are too many rash tackle attempts, or players are "dirty"

My players have been punched or elbowed directly in the face, ribs, back, groin, kicked everywhere, pulled down by their hair, uniform pulled so hard it ripped, and I've seen multiple opponents red carded and suspended x number of games.

Would rather not treat my kids black eye, take them to the dentist, PT, or have to get a new jersey that has been ripped but that's soccer a contact support where some players loose their mind's in the heat of the battle.

 

[espola]

I hear this BS about the refs being responsible for players getting injured all the time. Remember referees cannot call the foul until it has occurred. There are other game management tools referees can use but there is still the possibility of players getting injured. I have called some very tight games and some defender still comes in late for a tackle and injures a player. I have also worked games where the game is very clean and few fouls are called and a player still comes in late for a tackle and injures a player. Sure a referee can call the foul and issue a Red card after the foul, but there is no way I or any other referee can stop a foul and subsequent injury from happening. Referees can reduce the likelihood of reckless or dangerous fouls, but will never be able to stop an injury before it happens. Even if referees make every "justified" foul call in a game there are still going to be on and off the ball injuries.

Now, a referee that flat out swallows their whistle is another matter. Referees that do not use the tools at their disposal run the risk of the players taking enforcement into their own hands. This small percentage of referees are the ones that give the rest of the hard working good referees a bad reputation. I know a couple of these types of referees and they tend to be arrogant and do not listen to constructive feedback. You are going to have a few bad apples in every profession. I can also name a few coaches that think they are the worlds greatest coaches, but their teams lose more than they win and their players do not develop and improve.

I think your first paragraph should have a long talk with your second paragraph.

 

[Surfref]

I think your first paragraph should have a long talk with your second paragraph.

Those whistle swallowing referees do get talked too, but many of them do not listen. The assigners will finally get tired of hearing about them and start to give them fewer and fewer games until they move to a new ref association and assigner. Most good refs know who the bad apples are and try to avoid them.

 

[socalkdg]

During the Olympics I watched Neymar get hit by 5-6 different people in one game(yes I know he has a tendancy to fall easy, but these were solid fouls), resulting in yellow cards for some of them. He could have been injured on any number of plays. Should the referee increase the penalty for each successive player, or does each player seem to get one free shot at him. Has this happened in a youth soccer match?

 

[watfly]

Those whistle swallowing referees do get talked too, but many of them do not listen. The assigners will finally get tired of hearing about them and start to give them fewer and fewer games until they move to a new ref association and assigner. Most good refs know who the bad apples are and try to avoid them.

Good to hear. In the last 4 years I've only once seen a ref swallowing a whistle create a real dangerous player safety situation. It was a "dirty team" that pushed, punched, tripped/pushed from behind, gave the single finger salute a number of times and told an opposing parent to "shut the F up" (BTW these were 8 year olds). Play must of stopped almost a dozen times to tend to injured players. The saddest part is the AR agreed that the CR had let the game get out of control, but said he couldn't do or say anything because of Ref Protocol. Sad that that took precedent over player safety.

 

[socalkdg]

Good to hear. In the last 4 years I've only once seen a ref swallowing a whistle create a real dangerous player safety situation. It was a "dirty team" that pushed, punched, tripped/pushed from behind, gave the single finger salute a number of times and told an opposing parent to "shut the F up" (BTW these were 8 year olds). Play must of stopped almost a dozen times to tend to injured players. The saddest part is the AR agreed that the CR had let the game get out of control, but said he couldn't do or say anything because of Ref Protocol. Sad that that took precedent over player safety.

Not sure a referee could fix this situation. This is a case of these kids parents needing a good smack up side the head.

 

[watfly]

Not sure a referee could fix this situation. This is a case of these kids parents needing a good smack up side the head.

No doubt. The long term fix is for these kids to have some appropriate role models, but the ref could have taken care of the immediate issue. No way of knowing, but I got the sense that maybe the CR was intimidated by the parents (who were equally out of control). It's hard to fathom what these kids will be like when they are 16...that's the saddest part.

 

[Unknown]

CR should use the whistle more often to control the game, so the players know that that CR means business and won't try to get away with fouls. CRS can prevent injuries this way. I have ref some games that a player or two try to test me how easy or hard I will be calling those fouls that they commit. Once they know that I mean business, they won't try to get way with fouls.

 

[Bells]

I have a hard time believing coaches are spending significant time on strategic fouls at U9. Do you have examples of such?

I wouldn't have thought so. But my daughter just played a team that was clearly taught to play dirty. If you played, you know there is a difference between playing physical, people not in control of their bodies, and those that play dirty. These 9 year old girls were trying to injure, pull hair/jerseys, checks/ hits long after the ball was passed, etc. It really took a turn after half time....we had one girl that could dribble half their team..and she was clearly targeted. Normally, you would have a bunch of PKs, free kicks, and eventually some cards.

Unfortunately, the ref was awful. The quality of refs has gone down dramatically due to the shortfall on number of refs after covid..and not sure the leagues can do much about it. So now, we have a lot of refs who never played (and maybe never watched a game) and have no idea what is or isnt a foul. They read a book and passed a test designed for 13 year olds.

In all my years coaching and watching kids play...I have never seen 9 year olds play that dirty...especially on the girls side. Not taking about pushing(which girls that age tend to do a lot) or being physical...or even a revenge foul.. (that happens)...I mean dirty play/ trying to injure.
I do not beleive 9 year old girls play that way without being taught or told to do so.

I'm suggesting it's not being taught. I'm also suggesting that at U9, there really aren't dirty players, just players who may be a bit rougher than others.

To jump on this old thread

I wouldn't have thought so. But my daughter just played a team that was clearly taught to play dirty. There is a difference between playing physical, people not in control of their bodies, and those that play dirty. These 9 year old girls were trying to injure, pull hair/jerseys, hits long after the ball was passed, etc. It really took a turn after half time....we had one girl that could dribble half their team..and she was clearly targeted...and while she finished the game..she was hurt (had cleat marks on her ankles, hair pulled, hit really hard ...like football tackle). Normally, you would have a bunch of PKs, free kicks, and eventually some cards.

Unfortunately, the ref was awful. The quality of refs has gone down dramatically due to the shortfall on number of refs after covid..and not sure the leagues can do much about it. So now, we have a lot of refs who never played (and maybe never watched a game) and have no idea what is or isnt a foul. They read a book and passed a test designed for 13 year olds. But normally that isn't even a problem..bc most little kids don't try to injure the other team.

In all my years coaching and watching kids play...I have never seen 9 year olds play that dirty...especially on the girls side. Not talking about pushing(which girls that age tend to do a lot) or being physical...or even a revenge foul.. (that happens)...I mean overall dirty play/ trying to injure. I do not believe 9 year old girls play that way without being taught or told to do so...especialy not half the team.

I just can't believe parents are ok with this. What are you teaching your kid...if someone is better than you--- don't practice harder..just try to injure the other players so they can't finish the game (ie..cheat.) If my daughter ever played that dirty...I would immediately ask her why..and if told to do so....I would not show up to another game.

 

[sigmabody]

We had a particularly good ref in last year's State Cup, who explicitly told the other team (in the first half of the game) to stop fouling one particular player on our 2011 boys team. They were explicitly targeting the player, presumably because he was the strongest player on our team. After ~5 fouls against this single player, some of which were perceptibly intentional, the ref told them explicitly to stop.

We've had a number of teams with dirty players we've played against, as as 2011 team. Unfortunately, the league (SoCal) doesn't take any actions against the players or clubs, even when they are obviously dirty players, so there's not much incentive to correct the behavior (and it might even be encouraged by some clubs; Legends FC had the most dirty players, iirc).

 

[Karlton Athletic]

Legends FC had the most dirty players, iirc.

We played a final against a 2010 Legends team at the Beach FC tournament last month (at Silverlakes) and 5 of our players had to visit the medical tent during the game, 3 by stretcher. Ref didn't protect us at all. We lost 2-1, dominating when it was a soccer game (first and last 15 minutes), but losing out in the middle 30 when we got dragged down into a Rugby match. That was the game right after the one where Legends were kicked out for cheating which I've mentioned elsewhere, so I'm not impressed, LOL.

 

[Carlsbad7]

We played a final against a 2010 Legends team at the Beach FC tournament last month (at Silverlakes) and 5 of our players had to visit the medical tent during the game, 3 by stretcher. Ref didn't protect us at all. We lost 2-1, dominating when it was a soccer game (first and last 15 minutes), but losing out in the middle 30 when we got dragged down into a Rugby match. That was the game right after the one where Legends were kicked out for cheating which I've mentioned elsewhere, so I'm not impressed, LOL.

We've had similar experiences.

What I've observed is older "latin" male refs tend to let a lot go. I don't know why this is. Maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe they don't care and are just counting down minutes until the game is over.

 

[Grace T.]

We've had similar experiences.

What I've observed is older "latin" male refs tend to let a lot go. I don't know why this is. Maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe they don't care and are just counting down minutes until the game is over.

It's not a cultural thing. It's a different interpretation of the game. The Mexican game takes the trifling exception to the very extreme and physical play (including such fouls) are considered an essential part of the game. You see it in the underletter league under 12 all the time on the boys side whenever you go up against a traditionally latino team. In one Coast game when my kid was U11, the opposing coach was screaming in Spanish "bring them down...put them in the hospital...don't let the f'ers ever get back up" in front of a Latino ref. The ref called the more egregious fouls but otherwise let it go...part of the problem is U12 refs are discouraged from giving cards with even the more egregious fouls.

 

[Karlton Athletic]

The ref called the more egregious fouls but otherwise let it go...

In our game, one of their (suspiciously) big kids literally picked up one of our boys and slammed him to the ground, wrestling style. Both got yellows.

That said, my boys and some of their team mates play in a Mexican indoor league and it’s wild. You’d have to pretty much murder someone before they call a foul but it’s all played in good spirits and has definitely toughened them up. You learn to move the ball pretty quick when you’re about to be body slammed onto the wall.

 

[Grace T.]

In our game, one of their (suspiciously) big kids literally picked up one of our boys and slammed him to the ground, wrestling style. Both got yellows. That said, my boys and some of their team mates play in a Mexican indoor league and it’s wild. You’d have to pretty much murder someone before they call a foul but it’s all played in good spirits and has definitely toughened them up. You learn to move the ball pretty quick when you’re about to be body slammed onto the wall.

In our game, one of their (suspiciously) big kids literally picked up one of our boys and slammed him to the ground, wrestling style. Both got yellows.

That said, my boys and some of their team mates play in a Mexican indoor league and it’s wild. You’d have to pretty much murder someone before they call a foul but it’s all played in good spirits and has definitely toughened them up. You learn to move the ball pretty quick when you’re about to be body slammed onto the wall.

latino league is great for that. The other thing about Latino league, though, is that it’s all for fun. Sure there’s a trophy, but a kids dad isn’t as likely to go off on him if he misses a shot on a 1v1. There’s the attitude that sure we want to win but it’s just a game. My kid for example will after he’s handled the ball put it down and dribble it to the half just for giggles, which he’d never do on a club team. And I’ve seen Latino league players fight and coaches go off on the ref but ultimately there’s (usually) no real hard feelings.

Where the combination is bad is when suddenly winning the game becomes blown out of proportion because of the expectations of parents, a coach, or the demands of a particular club. When the refs are hamstrung but rules (no cards) or politics it becomes even more out of control. And when there isn’t a sense of shared community because it’s a valley Latino team v the white team from Pasadena (they are literally playing different versions of the same game with completely different expectations and understanding)

 

[Karlton Athletic]

latino league is great for that. The other thing about Latino league, though, is that it’s all for fun.

In our league, they have a Luchador wrestler doing live commentary during playoff games. It’s a blast.

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

I wouldn't have thought so. But my daughter just played a team that was clearly taught to play dirty. If you played, you know there is a difference between playing physical, people not in control of their bodies, and those that play dirty. These 9 year old girls were trying to injure, pull hair/jerseys, checks/ hits long after the ball was passed, etc.

Which team was this?

 

[Slobodan]

It's not a cultural thing. It's a different interpretation of the game. The Mexican game takes the trifling exception to the very extreme and physical play (including such fouls) are considered an essential part of the game. You see it in the underletter league under 12 all the time on the boys side whenever you go up against a traditionally latino team. In one Coast game when my kid was U11, the opposing coach was screaming in Spanish "bring them down...put them in the hospital...don't let the f'ers ever get back up" in front of a Latino ref. The ref called the more egregious fouls but otherwise let it go...part of the problem is U12 refs are discouraged from giving cards with even the more egregious fouls.

Interesting. I grew up playing with mostly "Latin" players and they were soft... relative to their white, less skilled counterparts.

 

[Karlton Athletic]

Interesting. I grew up playing with mostly "Latin" players and they were soft... relative to their white, less skilled counterparts.

I play pickup with a very diverse crowd, and it's noticeable that the South Americans will writhe in pain on virtually any contact so that a foul is called (we ref ourselves and encourage people to call out their own fouls). One of my Chilean pals confessed they're taught to do that as soon as they start playing to try and gain an advantage and it's a hard habit to shake.

 

[TheMountie]

My son went to play in a Norwalk mexican league after getting invited one free weekend. He was playing well and towards the end of the second half one of the kids for no reason just two foot slid on him with cleats up above my kid's shins, got a red and that was the last time we ever came back.

 

[#girldad]

My son went to play in a Norwalk mexican league after getting invited one free weekend. He was playing well and towards the end of the second half one of the kids for no reason just two foot slid on him with cleats up above my kid's shins, got a red and that was the last time we ever came back.

If you have to say "mexican league," is it safe to say your son is not Mexican?