Women's CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying

[espola]

What was the DA's?

As I remember it, the DA's method was to recruit the best players to place on teams that played in a closed system. Is that how ECNL works?

That's a genuine question. I had some exposure to the early days of DA (my sons were the objects of local DA recruiters), when it was rising with the prediction of producing world-class players so we could win the World Cup in 2022 or so. My only exposure to ECNL is what people post here.

 

[crush]

Agree. We could use some top-down direction on expectations for national team-level expectations for technical and tactical skills. Maybe US soccer can create a certification for coaches on age-appropriate training. That might promote better training and encourage parents to pursue it as well.

Separately, leverage what Americans love most - tournaments. Divide the country into geographic regions and create regional "National Teams" at various age groups and have a tournament each summer with teams from each region. It will also allow a larger pool of players to be evaluated in highly competitive games.

Love this bro. Team Cali would win Team TX would be 2nd place. The rest of the country can divide into two teams for a four team tournament.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I like the idea, but it isn’t financially feasible. Do you realize how much staff and money that would take? There are roughly 8 staff members at a given camp. Now add travel, room and board and facilities then multiply it by 8. Just isn’t feasible for a single age group much less across multiple age groups.

Yes, it will be expensive. I have to think that with some promotion they can get a lot of that money back. Look at the Little League World Series. Promote it. ESPN will be asked why it doesn't cover the event the way the Boys Little League WS is covered. Make it an event. Remember what Surf Cup used to be like when it was "The Best of the Best"? I think the environment is good for something like this.

How many age groups play on the big field? It probably makes sense to combine 2 years and have each group play every other year.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

As I remember m it, the DA's method was to recruit the best players to place on teams that played in a closed system. Is that how ECNL works?

That's a genuine question. I had some exposure to the early days of DA (my sons were the objects of local DA recruiters), when it was rising with the prediction of producing world-class players so we could win the World Cup in 2022 or so. My only exposure to ECNL is what people post here.

From my perspective, ECNL and DA were not demonstrably different on a macro-level - local clubs, local coaches, local players --> local development. Neither organization played a significant part in actually developing players. DA coaches were influenced by National Team reps, but again, development was done by the club team.

 

[espola]

From my perspective, ECNL and DA were not demonstrably different on a macro-level - local clubs, local coaches, local players --> local development. Neither organization played a significant part in actually developing players. DA coaches were influenced by National Team reps, but again, development was done by the club team.

You are using the word "development" as if it were an established program different from the typical local pay-to-play club method of lines, laps, and lectures. Am I mistaken?

 

[crush]

Yes, it will be expensive. I have to think that with some promotion they can get a lot of that money back. Look at the Little League World Series. Promote it. ESPN will be asked why it doesn't cover the event the way the Boys Little League WS is covered. Make it an event. Remember what Surf Cup used to be like when it was "The Best of the Best"? I think the environment is good for something like this.

How many age groups play on the big field? It probably makes sense to combine 2 years and have each group play every other year.

You're on fire today. BTW, ECNL and the GDA was all the same coaches, just new signs out front. As the world watched and turned, we made soccer even worse for the females. What a complete mess. The male Ego is to blame, moo!

 

[Carlsbad7]

Heres an idea that will drive everyone crazy but will generate development over wins.

GA, ECNL, USNT, etc make all parents / spectators pass a certification test before clubs / leadership respond to their questions. The "Parent / Spectator" certification program would test on general soccer, posession, and development concepts. (over wins alone)

As I said super annoying but this would change everything if clubs adopted and stuck to it.

Coaches + Refs go certification programs why not parents / spectators.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Yes, it will be expensive. I have to think that with some promotion they can get a lot of that money back. Look at the Little League World Series. Promote it. ESPN will be asked why it doesn't cover the event the way the Boys Little League WS is covered. Make it an event. Remember what Surf Cup used to be like when it was "The Best of the Best"? I think the environment is good for something like this.

How many age groups play on the big field? It probably makes sense to combine 2 years and have each group play every other year.

YNT doesn’t start till u15 so it’s all 11v11.

There are barely enough people to watch NWSL or MLS so I wouldn’t expect much revenue generation for a youth expedition. Can’t really compare it with Little League baseball simply based on the popularity of baseball in the US.

If the point is to have a broad net to find the best talent for the YNT’s respective age group, why would you combine age groups? (Or did I miss something)?

maybe 4 regions rather than 8?

 

[espola]

Yes, it will be expensive. I have to think that with some promotion they can get a lot of that money back. Look at the Little League World Series. Promote it. ESPN will be asked why it doesn't cover the event the way the Boys Little League WS is covered. Make it an event. Remember what Surf Cup used to be like when it was "The Best of the Best"? I think the environment is good for something like this.

How many age groups play on the big field? It probably makes sense to combine 2 years and have each group play every other year.

The LLWS is entirely run by volunteers. Even the umpires get no more than travel expenses.

 

[sockma]

YNT doesn’t start till u15 so it’s all 11v11.

There are barely enough people to watch NWSL or MLS so I wouldn’t expect much revenue generation for a youth expedition. Can’t really compare it with Little League baseball simply based on the popularity of baseball in the US.

If the point is to have a broad net to find the best talent for the YNT’s respective age group, why would you combine age groups? (Or did I miss something)?

maybe 4 regions rather than 8?

4 regions makes it harder, I would go further and say 16 regions, with socal and texas getting 2-3 teams.

The LLWS is entirely run by volunteers. Even the umpires get no more than travel expenses.

If we want youth soccer to be cheaper and open to more players, This Is The Way

 

[espola]

4 regions makes it harder, I would go further and say 16 regions, with socal and texas getting 2-3 teams.

If we want youth soccer to be cheaper and open to more players, This Is The Way

The advantage that LLWS has is that there is a surplus of volunteers who know all the rules and proper methods of play for baseball. Soccer still depends on imported experts, what the Nomads director Derek Armstrong at one time called "soccer people".

Also, I should point out that there is another community of youth baseball teams (the so-called "travel Teams") that have paid coaches and compete in expensive tournaments. The truly elite players (or at least those with parents who can afford it) end up there, but you never see their tournaments on national TV.

 

[Kicker4Life]

4 regions makes it harder, I would go further and say 16 regions, with socal and texas getting 2-3 teams.

Help me understand how 4 teams makes it harder. Maybe I am misunderstanding the purpose of this “event”.

 

[sockma]

The advantage that LLWS has is that there is a surplus of volunteers who know all the rules and proper methods of play for baseball. Soccer still depends on imported experts, what the Nomads director Derek Armstrong at one time called "soccer people".

Also, I should point out that there is another community of youth baseball teams (the so-called "travel Teams") that have paid coaches and compete in expensive tournaments. The truly elite players (or at least those with parents who can afford it) end up there, but you never see their tournaments on national TV.

In baseball, you don't have to be in a club team to be recruited.

Help me understand how 4 teams makes it harder. Maybe I am misunderstanding the purpose of this “event”.

4 teams makes it harder because it means more travelling together to train. We can't mitigate all traveling but 4 regions in the US is a high cost for traveling due to our large land mass. Overall, it would be for the benefit of US women's soccer if we used the cost of travel to subsidize more regional training areas and develop more elite girls. We have a lot of elite athletes who are not getting the training at club to reach their potential bc of the need to win, understandably bc the market dictates this. At the regional trainings, the focus is on the totality of the soccer player. Also, the bigger we cast our net, the better the overall development of our entire player system.

I've seen a lot of girls that have high potential but most don't develop because their parents/families are not soccer players therefore don't understand what they need to be great soccer players or many families don't have the financial capability to do extra trainings. This is what the regional trainings should be facilitating.

The best players are generally those that have money and family soccer backgrounds.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

You are using the word "development" as if it were an established program different from the typical local pay-to-play club method of lines, laps, and lectures. Am I mistaken?

I am using "development" in its most general definition - to represent a player's growth in technical and tactical skills. My contention is that on the girls' side, the US Youth National Teams contribute little directly to a player's growth in technical and tactical skills. In the US, the primary purposes of Youth National Teams are to evaluate players and prepare them for competitions. The bulk of player development takes place at the club level.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

What is the ECNL method for developing players?

I am using "development" in its most general definition - to represent a player's growth in technical and tactical skills. My contention is that on the girls' side, the US Youth National Teams contribute little directly to a player's growth in technical and tactical skills. In the US, the primary purposes of Youth National Teams are to evaluate players and prepare them for competitions. The bulk of player development takes place at the club level.

I was imprecise in my previous post when I said, "Let ECNL take care of developing players". More precisely, I should have stated, "Allow players to develop as they have been on their ECNL (or GA, or ...) teams". I didn't mean to imply that ECNL was actually developing players.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Heres an idea that will drive everyone crazy but will generate development over wins.

GA, ECNL, USNT, etc make all parents / spectators pass a certification test before clubs / leadership respond to their questions. The "Parent / Spectator" certification program would test on general soccer, posession, and development concepts. (over wins alone)

As I said super annoying but this would change everything if clubs adopted and stuck to it.

Coaches + Refs go certification programs why not parents / spectators.

I like this idea. My gut feeling is that coming up with a meaningful, general certification that all clubs agree on might be difficult.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

YNT doesn’t start till u15 so it’s all 11v11.

There are barely enough people to watch NWSL or MLS so I wouldn’t expect much revenue generation for a youth expedition. Can’t really compare it with Little League baseball simply based on the popularity of baseball in the US.

If the point is to have a broad net to find the best talent for the YNT’s respective age group, why would you combine age groups? (Or did I miss something)?

maybe 4 regions rather than 8?

So, each year - U15 to U18 --> 4 age groups (No difference that current YNT camps, correct?)

I'm thinking 4 regions isn't enough. Maybe 8 is too big. I think some sort of analysis like the following might be useful. Take the Power 5 conferences and see where the girls came from. Divide geographically to make this number reasonably equivalent among 6 regions.

This would give National Team coaches exposure to about 6x as many girls as they would typically see.

 

[crush]

So, each year - U15 to U18 --> 4 age groups (No difference that current YNT camps, correct?)

I'm thinking 4 regions isn't enough. Maybe 8 is too big. I think some sort of analysis like the following might be useful. Take the Power 5 conferences and see where the girls came from. Divide geographically to make this number reasonably equivalent among 6 regions.

This would give National Team coaches exposure to about 6x as many girls as they would typically see.

My kid started training for the U14 YNT when she was 11 back in 2015. I know, big pipe dream. She had one invite to the United States Youth Soccer Training Center when she was 12. I see Kicker said it starts at U15 now. No more U14 Team?

 

[Kicker4Life]

So, each year - U15 to U18 --> 4 age groups (No difference that current YNT camps, correct?)

I'm thinking 4 regions isn't enough. Maybe 8 is too big. I think some sort of analysis like the following might be useful. Take the Power 5 conferences and see where the girls came from. Divide geographically to make this number reasonably equivalent among 6 regions.

This would give National Team coaches exposure to about 6x as many girls as they would typically see.

u15 through u23

never was a u14….”Training Cemters” we their regional concept of casting a wide net to ID talent that started at u12.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

u15 through u23

never was a u14….”Training Cemters” we their regional concept of casting a wide net to ID talent that started at u12.

Since it's not my money, I'll continue my journey into fantasy land.

Beyond U18, there is little for the National Team to gain by keeping the net wider than it is currently. Most of those top players will be in college the following year playing soccer, and a few will be pros. Keep the U20 and U23 processes in place as is.

In addition to seeing more players overall, the regional national team idea creates competition against players with better skill and overall athleticism than the US youth teams currently see in CONCACAF tournaments. Other than Mexico and Canada, most players get better competition from their club team. The money spent on CONCACAF gives little bang for the buck in terms of competition.

Creativity would be needed to reduce costs. College campus housing is often available in the summer. There is no need for a huge complex of fields as the total number of teams is 24 (6 regions x 4 age groups) so expensive areas like San Diego can be avoided. Local sponsorships would be useful. Consider combining this with 2 USWNT exhibitions to kick off and end the event. Maybe have an NWSL game or two as well. Americans love a tournament and crowning a National Champion. I'd tap into that.

The most important outcome of this for the National Team would be that they would have more influence on training. Six times as many girls are involved. More teams and coaches will be able to tout their National Team players, and more parents will seek out the training that is leading to invitations.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Since it's not my money, I'll continue my journey into fantasy land.

Beyond U18, there is little for the National Team to gain by keeping the net wider than it is currently. Most of those top players will be in college the following year playing soccer, and a few will be pros. Keep the U20 and U23 processes in place as is.

In addition to seeing more players overall, the regional national team idea creates competition against players with better skill and overall athleticism than the US youth teams currently see in CONCACAF tournaments. Other than Mexico and Canada, most players get better competition from their club team. The money spent on CONCACAF gives little bang for the buck in terms of competition.

Creativity would be needed to reduce costs. College campus housing is often available in the summer. There is no need for a huge complex of fields as the total number of teams is 24 (6 regions x 4 age groups) so expensive areas like San Diego can be avoided. Local sponsorships would be useful. Consider combining this with 2 USWNT exhibitions to kick off and end the event. Maybe have an NWSL game or two as well. Americans love a tournament and crowning a National Champion. I'd tap into that.

The most important outcome of this for the National Team would be that they would have more influence on training. Six times as many girls are involved. More teams and coaches will be able to tout their National Team players, and more parents will seek out the training that is leading to invitations.

You’ll also need 6 x’s the staff to manage and operate. Under this scenerio each region will need to run regional camps to narrow down the player pool and prepare for the National event. So what happens after the National event? When does the final Team get selected, train together in regards to whatever Event Cycle they are in (CONCACAF qualifiers, ect)?

Does this scenario play out every year regardless of the Event Cycle or only in the age groups that aren’t in a Cycle at that point?

Not hating, just spitballing as you may be on to something.