Women's CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying

[Happened again]

frank schoon, August 18, 2022 at 9:11 a.m.
As I sat there on the couch with my notepad, wanting to take notes for tomorrow's SA comments, at the end of the night, there was nothing. It wasn't worth spending time for the problem is much bigger than the game details that I usually talk about at hand...

First of all, The USSF should do a study on body fat content of the US women soccer players. I look at the Japanese and Dutch women and they are all thin, and athletic looking. I see way too many big butts ,heavy thighs on the US women teams...

I had mentioned gestallt before, but the US developing strategy has got to change from atheticism to intelligent play. From day one it should be taught to the players that you CAN"t outrun the ball, nothing is faster than the ball. Once that is understood, then you play the game in a way that you let the ball do the running, not the player, for that is much faster...Of course that is easier said than done, for you have to understand the parameters that come with fast play, for example, positioning, field positioning and ball-handling skills,not fast running, but fast thinking. That in itself is part of the gestallt that needs to added to our game. The problem ,currently, is that we don't have the coaches to teach that for they likewise have never grown up in that type of old-fashioned gestallt.

Look at the dutch and Japanese when we played them, both were not about to fight it out with the US team, because we can kick anybody's ass, playing physical out there. You never saw a dutch player or japanese player try to outrun an American with the ball....forget it...but we will definitely try to for that is our gestallt that's been baked into our DNA from day one...Turbo, baby!!!

Both the Japanese and Dutch players beat our players with short fast ball movements combined with various players. You never saw them trying to outrun an American player in a mad dash down the wing or down the field, but you would see that display with our players because that's baked into our DNA....
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frank schoon, August 18, 2022 at 9:46 a.m.
Note how fast the Japanese turn with the ball, on a dime, especially when they allow an American player to come very close. The make a feint, as if they will in one direction but go the opposite. We don't even do that. Why don't we see that with our players, simple, we don't have the coaches to train and develop that type of style. We simply train to straight forward, too direct, too simplistic and too predictable.

The Dutch are too smart to get in a foot race with the Americans. They only attempt a quick dash of about 5meters than quickly pass the ball off, perhaps it backwards making US chase the ball back ,leaving a big open space forwards but behind the American players to pass the ball. In this manner you don't have to try and outrun someone but instead beat 2 or 3 players through one pass. We just don't play smart soccer and that is due to coaching....So when you're told our coaches are all licensed ,what is that suppose to mean, Licensed???? This is a joke.

If you want to begin to increase the level of faster play, that means not run faster for that only slows down the game, instead there are other parameters that come into paly to FORCE a player to play faster. Instead of 11v11,full field, play it half-field. Or play 11v14, where the 3 extra players forces the other team, to look ahead,move, think and pass faster....It is the little details. Rinus Michels in the WC'74 practiced playing 11v11, half-field, full goals, never full-field. In other words time and space became of the essence and that requires faster thinking and moving.

In street soccer days,the kids on the teams never wore specially t-shirts or color pennies. No, ofcourse not ,you just played with what you wore that day in school. In other words, teams were never equal, nobody wore similar colors, which forced kids to always look up and remember who your teammates were and where they are situated. Unlike today, the coach just throws out the color pennies and seperate two teams. That was never done in my days of street soccer, where you automatically were forced to look ,think, prepare to where the ball should go ahead of time in the next move because similar color teammates weren't there. All this stuff became automatic to the kids in my days through playing. Today, that gestallt is lost and instead, we have some 'goofball' with a license directing you 'where to go, what to do, what color to where'.

Development of soccer needs a serious change and the first step is for player to learn to play faster which is done by forcing them to new parameters of play....

all of this based off of one age group that is firmly entrenched in the NCAA. They've never been dominant and likely will never be dominant. Way too much dispersion and conflicts.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

Congratulations to both Japan and the Netherlands for making it to the Semi Finals. That Japan v France game was ridiculous!

 

[GoldenGate]

Collage coaches and US olympic coaches have the same issues in the US with soccer. Everything is short term, based on the now vs building a team that plays possession + knows each other inside out.

Japan as a culture values tradition + working at something over and over as a group.

I dont see the US changing because theres nothing pushing for a change. Youth soccer is 10 years with 4-5 of actually playing, college is 4 years with maybe 2 years of actual game time, and pro is just a game of trying to pick the top talent to field a team. All groups (Youth, College, Pro) are different + players are essentially starting over at each level.

In Europe + other parts of the world clubs start with youth + shape them until they're ready to play pro. A single group controls the players. This gives them the time to properly train teams + players on possession.

Now that larger clubs have embraced training women. The USWNT will likely start having a more difficult time getting the wins.

Yes, Japan has consistently shown how they're the best. Round of 16 in the last WC. And we all remember how it went four years before that when they used their "culture values tradition + working at something over and over as a group" against our uncoordinated untechnical USWNT. Yes, we should definitely do what Japan does. How can you argue against that kind of success?

I also really like what North Korea is doing. They're historically done well at U20s, and if there was every a country where a "single group" controls the players, it's that one. But we also need to talk about Spain. As we all know, that country is really doing things. So great in fact that their women's NT has never one a major knockout stage game in the entire history of planet earth. I can't believe the US has gotten things so wrong by going with athletes instead of circus jugglers.

You are totally right. The US should make all youth girls in the country play together in a one-size-fits-all manner controlled by a single group.

 

[paytoplay]

3 game losing streak

 

[LASTMAN14]

Sitting and watching the USA women's team for the last few years and especially the last three years has been terribly disappointing. It’s not the players. It is US soccer's most current regime. US soccer is in a downward trend. Yea, we have athletic players, which most coaches like. But lack technique and intelligence. USWNT also sticks to players that need to be dropped and some many years ago. Which goes hand in hand in how so many college coaches pick players. It’s sad. US Soccer is terrible at identifying talent and colleges as well. Spain women’s program is in its infancy when we compare it to ours yet is head shoulders well past what we do here. They have an 1/8 of the pool. And please don’t argue they have had men’s soccer longer. They were adverse to growing the game. But now have changed their approach, obviously. My question is what can we do to change the game here working within our pay to play system. Please don’t comment on pay to play either, I now it, you know it, no need to remind us.

 

[Brav520]

There is a ton of young talent on the team

integrating them with some of the veterans is the challenge , and I’m not sure there is enough time to do it before the WC

losing Pugh-Swanson is a huge blow , there really isn’t a like for like replacement for her . She just is so dangerous with the ball at her feet.

On another note , I’ve seen Girma play multiple times with the Wave and couple of times with WNT. She is a really special player ( if defendera interest you as a fan )

 

[Soccerfan2]

US soccer evaluates players that are on the bubble with other players that are really unlikely to roster/start. I have never understood this approach. Why wouldn’t you look at a potential player in the best possible lineup? A couple of the players he gave minutes to tonight…eh.

I thought Rodman looked pretty good in many moments, Krueger looked very motivated and Alyssa is insanely fast - it’s like a gift to get to watch it! With the confidence to make one last body feint on two separate occasions, she’d have had dangerous shots off.

 

[sockma]

We've developed a lot of great individual players, that's why our top is great. We've had a hard time developing strong midfielders (lavelle is the exception, but lavelle does need more team play to create more space) and Centerbacks (Girma is the exception) because we're not looking at the totality of a player: the soccer IQ, technical abilities, strength, speed, quickness, determination, etc. For our midfielders and CBs, we need to develop players all around with the ability to pass and create space quicker, but most importantly, defending as a team. Soccer is the ultimate team sport but most of our players are not team oriented on the field. Spain and Japan have less raw athleticism but their players are able to play as a team. It's how our society is these days. We don't work together, we just yell at each other about how our ideas are better. Our players need to be complete players with a team oriented focus, not just good at 2 or 3 things.

I would like to see clubs create training programs that focus on all these different aspects.

 

[NorCalDad]

Sitting and watching the USA women's team for the last few years and especially the last three years has been terribly disappointing. It’s not the players. It is US soccer's most current regime. US soccer is in a downward trend. Yea, we have athletic players, which most coaches like. But lack technique and intelligence. USWNT also sticks to players that need to be dropped and some many years ago. Which goes hand in hand in how so many college coaches pick players. It’s sad. US Soccer is terrible at identifying talent and colleges as well. Spain women’s program is in its infancy when we compare it to ours yet is head shoulders well past what we do here. They have an 1/8 of the pool. And please don’t argue they have had men’s soccer longer. They were adverse to growing the game. But now have changed their approach, obviously. My question is what can we do to change the game here working within our pay to play system. Please don’t comment on pay to play either, I now it, you know it, no need to remind us.

I've mulled over this quite a bit over the years. I think there are two core issues:

- I'd venture to guess that less than 5% of all competitive youth soccer coaches in the US actually coach the game right. There's probably more that know how to, but don't due to my next point.

- Clubs are essentially providing what people are demanding. It's a business. Certainly clubs have framed that narrative by their fancy veneer; "pathway to pro", "elite", yadda yadda yadda. At the end of the day if enough people demand McDonald's bring back the McRib, McDonald's will do so. The problem is parents/players aren't demanding a different, more intelligent style of play. Some of that is self serving, in that if the style of play was more demanding tactically and technically, their player might not even make a first team. But, I suspect the more common issue is people don't know what they don't know. What they do know is the fundamental point of any sport is to try and win the game. To teach the game differently parents/players would have to be ok with losing for the sake of learning. If the entire industry shifted this direction then it could work, but a lone coach here and there will struggle to convince people this is the right direction.

So maybe the solution is more education -- or perhaps seeing the USWNT eventually losing their dominance.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I've mulled over this quite a bit over the years. I think there are two core issues:

- I'd venture to guess that less than 5% of all competitive youth soccer coaches in the US actually coach the game right. There's probably more that know how to, but don't due to my next point.

- Clubs are essentially providing what people are demanding. It's a business. Certainly clubs have framed that narrative by their fancy veneer; "pathway to pro", "elite", yadda yadda yadda. At the end of the day if enough people demand McDonald's bring back the McRib, McDonald's will do so. The problem is parents/players aren't demanding a different, more intelligent style of play. Some of that is self serving, in that if the style of play was more demanding tactically and technically, their player might not even make a first team. But, I suspect the more common issue is people don't know what they don't know. What they do know is the fundamental point of any sport is to try and win the game. To teach the game differently parents/players would have to be ok with losing for the sake of learning. If the entire industry shifted this direction then it could work, but a lone coach here and there will struggle to convince people this is the right direction.

So maybe the solution is more education -- or perhaps seeing the USWNT eventually losing their dominance.

Agree. We could use some top-down direction on expectations for national team-level expectations for technical and tactical skills. Maybe US soccer can create a certification for coaches on age-appropriate training. That might promote better training and encourage parents to pursue it as well.

Separately, leverage what Americans love most - tournaments. Divide the country into geographic regions and create regional "National Teams" at various age groups and have a tournament each summer with teams from each region. It will also allow a larger pool of players to be evaluated in highly competitive games.

 

[Soccerfan2]

Agree. We could use some top-down direction on expectations for national team-level expectations for technical and tactical skills. Maybe US soccer can create a certification for coaches on age-appropriate training. That might promote better training and encourage parents to pursue it as well.

Separately, leverage what Americans love most - tournaments. Divide the country into geographic regions and create regional "National Teams" at various age groups and have a tournament each summer with teams from each region. It will also allow a larger pool of players to be evaluated in highly competitive games.

Wait a minute…that sounds like a developme…ah nevermind.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Wait a minute…that sounds like a developme…ah nevermind.

No. The National Team should keep its focus on those who truly have shown the potential to play at that level. Getting in too deep - as the DA did - doesn't serve its primary purpose. Let ECNL take care of developing the players. There's a nice break in ECNL starting in early July. Have the 8 regions each call in 20-25 girls to train for a week and have a 4-game tournament over the next two weeks.

 

[Kicker4Life]

No. The National Team should keep its focus on those who truly have shown the potential to play at that level. Getting in too deep - as the DA did - doesn't serve its primary purpose. Let ECNL take care of developing the players. There's a nice break in ECNL starting in early July. Have the 8 regions each call in 20-25 girls to train for a week and have a 4-game tournament over the next two weeks.

I like the idea, but it isn’t financially feasible. Do you realize how much staff and money that would take? There are roughly 8 staff members at a given camp. Now add travel, room and board and facilities then multiply it by 8. Just isn’t feasible for a single age group much less across multiple age groups.

 

[espola]

No. The National Team should keep its focus on those who truly have shown the potential to play at that level. Getting in too deep - as the DA did - doesn't serve its primary purpose. Let ECNL take care of developing the players. There's a nice break in ECNL starting in early July. Have the 8 regions each call in 20-25 girls to train for a week and have a 4-game tournament over the next two weeks.

What is the ECNL method for developing players?

 

[kickingandscreaming]

What is the ECNL method for developing players?

What was the DA's?

 

[espola]

What was the DA's?

As I remember it, the DA's method was to recruit the best players to place on teams that played in a closed system. Is that how ECNL works?

That's a genuine question. I had some exposure to the early days of DA (my sons were the objects of local DA recruiters), when it was rising with the prediction of producing world-class players so we could win the World Cup in 2022 or so. My only exposure to ECNL is what people post here.

 

[crush]

Agree. We could use some top-down direction on expectations for national team-level expectations for technical and tactical skills. Maybe US soccer can create a certification for coaches on age-appropriate training. That might promote better training and encourage parents to pursue it as well.

Separately, leverage what Americans love most - tournaments. Divide the country into geographic regions and create regional "National Teams" at various age groups and have a tournament each summer with teams from each region. It will also allow a larger pool of players to be evaluated in highly competitive games.

Love this bro. Team Cali would win Team TX would be 2nd place. The rest of the country can divide into two teams for a four team tournament.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I like the idea, but it isn’t financially feasible. Do you realize how much staff and money that would take? There are roughly 8 staff members at a given camp. Now add travel, room and board and facilities then multiply it by 8. Just isn’t feasible for a single age group much less across multiple age groups.

Yes, it will be expensive. I have to think that with some promotion they can get a lot of that money back. Look at the Little League World Series. Promote it. ESPN will be asked why it doesn't cover the event the way the Boys Little League WS is covered. Make it an event. Remember what Surf Cup used to be like when it was "The Best of the Best"? I think the environment is good for something like this.

How many age groups play on the big field? It probably makes sense to combine 2 years and have each group play every other year.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

As I remember m it, the DA's method was to recruit the best players to place on teams that played in a closed system. Is that how ECNL works?

That's a genuine question. I had some exposure to the early days of DA (my sons were the objects of local DA recruiters), when it was rising with the prediction of producing world-class players so we could win the World Cup in 2022 or so. My only exposure to ECNL is what people post here.

From my perspective, ECNL and DA were not demonstrably different on a macro-level - local clubs, local coaches, local players --> local development. Neither organization played a significant part in actually developing players. DA coaches were influenced by National Team reps, but again, development was done by the club team.

 

[espola]

From my perspective, ECNL and DA were not demonstrably different on a macro-level - local clubs, local coaches, local players --> local development. Neither organization played a significant part in actually developing players. DA coaches were influenced by National Team reps, but again, development was done by the club team.

You are using the word "development" as if it were an established program different from the typical local pay-to-play club method of lines, laps, and lectures. Am I mistaken?