Is that how the essay was described?
Wynalda Perspective on US Soccer
- Thread starter watfly
- Start date
It was how it was written, except the last sentence which was my editorial comment.
Essays will help applicants if the essays moves readers in a positive manner and reveals the ability to think. It has been that way since we were applying, and that's a long time ago. Whether an essay is woke or not does not matter, it is how well it was written that matters.
The subject matter and content is not as important (unless it's something so extremely bad as supporting Hitler and his genocide policies) as the ability to move readers.
The Costco essay is probably the best example of what makes a good essay. Reader enjoys reading it, but is also able to get insight into writer's complex thinking and writing capabilities.
That essay @watfly reference sounds fun to read. If he writes it poorly, he'd get a bad score. If he writes it well, he'll get a good score. It's not the content or point of view, but it's the quality of the writing.
If you write a boring essay, even if you write about world peace and all the woke issues in the world, it lets the readers know that you are not a complex thinker.
The subject matter and content is not as important (unless it's something so extremely bad as supporting Hitler and his genocide policies) as the ability to move readers.
The Costco essay is probably the best example of what makes a good essay. Reader enjoys reading it, but is also able to get insight into writer's complex thinking and writing capabilities.
That essay @watfly reference sounds fun to read. If he writes it poorly, he'd get a bad score. If he writes it well, he'll get a good score. It's not the content or point of view, but it's the quality of the writing.
If you write a boring essay, even if you write about world peace and all the woke issues in the world, it lets the readers know that you are not a complex thinker.
I guess you have a different definition of a "social justice warrior" than I do. Or is that just one of those vacuous shorthand substitutions for "someone I don't like"?
My friend from HS helps students write their essays on why their bad luck should should be the reason to be admitted. 100%, the more woke you can write, the better chance. She knows the woke biz better than anyone I know and knows how to write it all out.
Back in my day, I wrote an essay as requested "about an event in your life". I wrote about a ski race. Must have been good enough -- I got the scholarship.
I was thinking maybe you would have written about your time at "Youth Church Camp."
If you are applying for a top 40 school, however, most of the essays have good writing. The kids have all held at least an honors class or two. The teachers and/or counselors have been through the essay with their markups, and if the parents can afford advisors they've been into it. So, the default is whether the content actually grabs the reader, which is somewhat subjective to the reader.
With that argument, everyone is the same and there's no answer in how to admit students.
I will disagree on writing. I've seen essays go through the same process as you indicated above, and they come off as such, mediocre. The ability to move readers is a gift, not everyone has. That's why there's the essay portion, for colleges to look at a different aspect of an applicant.
I see two people write about the same topic and be just as academically inclined, but one essay is clearly better because of the ability to relay complex thoughts to it's readers in an enjoyable manner while the other is just an essay that must be read.
Math majors that are less comfortable with English wouldn’t get in to top 40. Not to mention foreign students Esl. Yet we know both happen.
I agree even in the top 40 there are hemmingways that can move to tears and rise above the pack. It’s a function of both content and style, however, and are a rarity at that level since the majority at that level is “good” so you are sorting the genius from the good. However as the music student in my example shows at that level even good style may not be enough if the content is mismatched.
I recommended being an oppressed, skinny male in a blue dress that overcomes the odds by being a woman for 365 days and drinking Bud Light. Unfortunately, someone beat me to the idea.
I was thinking he would have written about his time being a "neutral" confederate in the Civil War.
They were probably impressed with your use of the word "vacuous".
Talk to a current college student, and you will soon discover that ChatGPT will be doing most of the "writing" of college entrance essays for the foreseeable future.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Not if they want to get in. At least here in April 2023, there are plenty of tools that can effectively determine whether an AI bot was used to craft an essay. It's not foolproof, but it's still surprisingly effective in identifying passages, phrases, and similar portions of writing and determining whether or not it was human-written. Any essay that flags high on these is going to be treated with suspicion by any admissions review that has access to these same tools. Think of it as anti-plagiarism version 2.0.
Perhaps the discussion in 2025, 2030, or 2050 will be different, and continuous optimization and improvement results in an AI that cannot be differentiated from human writing, and for this to happen the same optimizations and improvement on the detection side would have to have fallen behind. But we're not there yet.
I've tried out ChatGPT a couple times and I have to say I wasn't very impressed, seemed like it spewed a lot of generalities and repeated concepts. Now that could have just been a function of my inputs. Garbage in, garbage out.
That argument is flawed because not every math major writes the same way and math majors differ in their ability to write. If a college must choose between two final applicants: Given two math majors with the same test scores, same grades, same extracurricular points, and same academic vigor - the one with the better essay will get the advantage (in theory).
The essay is just one of many tools for colleges to differentiate the thousands of applicants.
Every school claims they take a "holistic" approach. I'm a bit skeptical, IMO I think it primarily depends on if you strike a chord with the individual application reviewer based upon her/his/they's own biases. (that's assuming you're meeting the minimum objective requirements for entry).
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, but if I'm reading correctly - you may be misinterpreting her post, and you are in fact both actually agreeing more than disagreeing. Her intent was "If that were true, math majors that are less comfortable....." She was implying that it wasn't true.
But the main point is that the essays aren't a huge differentiator, even at the very top level of applicants/schools. If you look at 50 of them, in reality, you can't separate them into 50 different measurable levels of worthiness. Most are perfectly fine. A handful are memorable. And a handful are pretty bad. In the hypothetical you laid out, with identical candidates in every potential category except a noticeable difference on the essay, you're right - the kids with the better essay should get the spot. It's just not that common an occurrence.
True, which is where sockmas writing ability also has a point. Even the readers though have limitations. There are informal quotas at the top schools (and no not just by dei) that cap the number of particular majors (prelaw premed music), states (easier from the dakotas than ny/ca), sports and art slots, and schools (Harvard could accept its entire class from Harvard Westlake on the west coast and Philips Andover on the east but they won’t because diversity). The reader also can’t wave a wand and solve my music student problem I talked about or create a marine biology slot if there isn’t one.
There is an art to it and you get better with practice, and in addition the algorithm will get better all the time. Trust me, college and high school kids are using it right now, and whatever apps are out there to supposedly catch them aren't catching them. For now it is free, but once everyone gets hooked it will come with a cost and the digital divide will grow larger once again.