War in Ukraine soon?

[whatithink]

I'm skeptical that Ukraine would have gotten much support, either from the Euro's or the US, if it hadn't been for their resolve and the giant pair on Zelensky (who is also a master marketer). Everyone likes a front runner. Ukraine deserves all the credit for leadership on this conflict and emboldening NATO countries.

I think there is a difference between "support" versus the reaction in Europe. I don't think we realize what the specter of the Soviets presents to Eastern Europe in particular, including Germany obviously. The fact that Russia would invade in today's world, after the Europeans have contorted themselves for the last couple of decades trying to placate Putin, seems to have had a seismic impact on their psyche. Ukraine have played the media angle astonishingly well, which has just given cover to European governments (if that was needed).

 

[Multi Sport]

Coocoo.

Yep.. you are when you post stuff like "sports previously known as women's sports" what exactly are those sports again?

 

[tenacious]

You're probably in the minority

View attachment 13143


I think Putin probably understands that they are gaffes as well, but it makes great bulletin board for Putin to sell to the Russians. Biden may be Putin's best propagandist.

In regard to your first comment, I've attached a link down below to a Newsweek article that I would say does a pretty good job of arguing what I'd say is my position on Biden's leadership with regard to Ukraine.

As to the propaganda angle? Somehow I doubt hearing a US President say that Putin shouldn't be allowed to stay in office, will cause the Russian people to hate us more than they did when we sanctioned and shut down their economy.

This Is Joe Biden's Finest Moment

He is preserving NATO, regaining American's position as the leader of the west and showing the steely determination needed in this type of crisis.

www.newsweek.com

 

[watfly]

In regard to your first comment, I've attached a link down below to a Newsweek article that I would say does a pretty good job of arguing what I'd say is my position on Biden's leadership with regard to Ukraine.

As to the propaganda angle? Somehow I doubt hearing a US President say that Putin shouldn't be allowed to stay in office, will cause the Russian people to hate us more than they did when we sanctioned and shut down their economy.

This Is Joe Biden's Finest Moment

He is preserving NATO, regaining American's position as the leader of the west and showing the steely determination needed in this type of crisis.

www.newsweek.com

I support his comment about removing Biden from power, I agree with him. However, his administration clearly didn't appreciate him going off script. The Newsweek opinion is comical but might be accurate in terms of his finest moment which is the worlds lowest bar. Biden hasn't totally botched the Ukraine/Russian matter like Afghanistan, but he continues to lead from behind and the Ukrainians success is propping up his "day late and dollar short" policies.

Wasn't thinking about his comments adding to Russian hate of the West, but adding more fuel to Putin's justifications for invading Ukraine.

 

[tenacious]

Where did Blam go?

 

[tenacious]

I support his comment about removing Biden from power, I agree with him. However, his administration clearly didn't appreciate him going off script. The Newsweek opinion is comical but might be accurate in terms of his finest moment which is the worlds lowest bar. Biden hasn't totally botched the Ukraine/Russian matter like Afghanistan, but he continues to lead from behind and the Ukrainians success is propping up his "day late and dollar short" policies.

Wasn't thinking about his comments adding to Russian hate of the West, but adding more fuel to Putin's justifications for invading Ukraine.

I don't disagree that Biden has not lived up to what I had hoped. But at the same time, I'm too afraid of what happens if things go wrong to root against him. Haha as such I'll take the wins where I can get them.

 

[watfly]

I don't disagree that Biden has not lived up to what I had hoped. But at the same time, I'm too afraid of what happens if things go wrong to root against him. Haha as such I'll take the wins where I can get them.

I'm always rooting for our President regardless of party. Unfortunately, he, or his administration, has an uncanny knack of making exactly the wrong decisions and his continued cognitive decline is bordering on dangerous for our country. Best case scenario is this administration will go down as the least proactive and most reactive of all time. Worst case scenario? They make the Carter administration look competent.

 

[whatithink]

I support his comment about removing Biden from power, I agree with him. However, his administration clearly didn't appreciate him going off script. The Newsweek opinion is comical but might be accurate in terms of his finest moment which is the worlds lowest bar. Biden hasn't totally botched the Ukraine/Russian matter like Afghanistan, but he continues to lead from behind and the Ukrainians success is propping up his "day late and dollar short" policies.

Wasn't thinking about his comments adding to Russian hate of the West, but adding more fuel to Putin's justifications for invading Ukraine.

I'm assuming you had a Freudian slip above. I'm not sure what Biden was supposed to have done differently wrt Ukraine. Putting troops in there or a no-fly zone are non-starters imv, so providing arms, being open with the world on what was going on and working with Nato allies to put together a united front was & is the way to go.

Its not like the US can tell Putin what to do.

WRT Afghanistan, that was a shit show. Biden (who has advocated withdrawing since 2012 as I recall) should have shipped the thousands of troops back that Trump had withdrawn and used them to manage the withdrawal more effectively. That said, withdrawing was always the right choice, and it was always going to be a shit show irrespective of who was in charge as the Taliban was always going to just take over again.

With all the commentary about Biden's ad lib moment, I found this funny

 

[watfly]

I'm assuming you had a Freudian slip above. I'm not sure what Biden was supposed to have done differently wrt Ukraine. Putting troops in there or a no-fly zone are non-starters imv, so providing arms, being open with the world on what was going on and working with Nato allies to put together a united front was & is the way to go.

Its not like the US can tell Putin what to do.

WRT Afghanistan, that was a shit show. Biden (who has advocated withdrawing since 2012 as I recall) should have shipped the thousands of troops back that Trump had withdrawn and used them to manage the withdrawal more effectively. That said, withdrawing was always the right choice, and it was always going to be a shit show irrespective of who was in charge as the Taliban was always going to just take over again.

With all the commentary about Biden's ad lib moment, I found this funny

View attachment 13158

Ha, ha, yes Freudian slip (I can't say I'd want that, alternatives may be worse). I'd give Biden a C- on Ukraine. He has been reactive instead of proactive. I appreciate the concept of not provoking Putin but you have to show a higher level of strength then what Biden has. It was obvious that Putin was going to invade Ukraine, IMO he should have done pre-emptive sanctions (that's part of the reason Biden is now backtracking on sanctions as a deterrence...too little, too late). Now he is blocking the use of the Polish MIGS even though I believe the other NATO countries have all agreed. I'm with you against the "no fly zone" and "boots on the ground". I'm also with you that I think its hypocritical that some on the right have criticized Biden for saying "Putin Cannot Remain in Power". I liked that he said that and I even can appreciate his explanation for saying it. But by the same token some of the those on the left are hypocritical that keep saying we can't provoke Putin into World War III, yet aren't critical of him for saying that Putin can't stay in power. To me its more escalatory to directly threaten Putin's power than it is to send MIGs...I'm personally in favor of both.

I will repeat this again, Zelensky's leadership and Ukraine's resolve have propped up NATO's and the US's response to the crisis and has mitigated the slow roll out of sanctions and other actions.

 

[whatithink]

Ha, ha, yes Freudian slip (I can't say I'd want that, alternatives may be worse). I'd give Biden a C- on Ukraine. He has been reactive instead of proactive. I appreciate the concept of not provoking Putin but you have to show a higher level of strength then what Biden has. It was obvious that Putin was going to invade Ukraine, IMO he should have done pre-emptive sanctions (that's part of the reason Biden is now backtracking on sanctions as a deterrence...too little, too late). Now he is blocking the use of the Polish MIGS even though I believe the other NATO countries have all agreed. I'm with you against the "no fly zone" and "boots on the ground". I'm also with you that I think its hypocritical that some on the right have criticized Biden for saying "Putin Cannot Remain in Power". I liked that he said that and I even can appreciate his explanation for saying it. But by the same token some of the those on the left are hypocritical that keep saying we can't provoke Putin into World War III, yet aren't critical of him for saying that Putin can't stay in power. To me its more escalatory to directly threaten Putin's power than it is to send MIGs...I'm personally in favor of both.

I will repeat this again, Zelensky's leadership and Ukraine's resolve have propped up NATO's and the US's response to the crisis and has mitigated the slow roll out of sanctions and other actions.

I don't think there would have been the buy in on sanctions prior to the invasion - it would have been a crazy hard sell, and if anything, it would have reinforced Putin's perceived grievance with the West / Nato etc. and given him justification along the lines of "we might as well as they are punishing us for nothing", kind of thing. Germany in particular has been in denial until it was real.

I agree there's plenty of hypocrisy to go around, its the one thing both the left and right have in common - they are both hypocrites.

 

[crush]

Ha, ha, yes Freudian slip (I can't say I'd want that, alternatives may be worse). I'd give Biden a C- on Ukraine.

A C-? Are you joking and just playing a fool today? Lol, I am a fool as well so don;t take anything I say serious Wat Fly. I sure wish I had teachers like you grading my school work back in the day. "Slow down son" they would say. Our school system needs a big clean up. Joe get's a big fat F for all that he has done to us and how he's handled everything, including the BS in Ukraine and the gas prices going up to $7. He and his son and few other kids ran rough house on all of us in Ukraine and you give the Big Guy a C-? Please, check your grading system and re grade please. Regarding Hunter and his lap top from hell, he needs help for sure but he capitulated with the Creator. He made a deal with the good guys bro after breaking up with Satan. He was born into hell dude. He made a good choice and dropped off his MacBook at Mac's place. What a sting operation, right? All of Hunter's biz pals were either indicted or worse, they disappeared and never to be seen again alive, just like a fart in the wind. So he made a deal to save himself and I appreciate it 100%. Epstein made a similar deal as well and caught everyone on camera as well, doing horrible things. I bet Hunter was told to get everything and anything on video and all the emails and just drop off at Mac's place when finished and go live out the rest of your life at Gitmo on the beach. No one drops off all their crimes and then forgets to go pick them up, right? Come on man, think outside the box and just think to yourself what you would have done if you grew up in a house like that.

 

[watfly]

I don't think there would have been the buy in on sanctions prior to the invasion - it would have been a crazy hard sell, and if anything, it would have reinforced Putin's perceived grievance with the West / Nato etc. and given him justification along the lines of "we might as well as they are punishing us for nothing", kind of thing. Germany in particular has been in denial until it was real.

I agree there's plenty of hypocrisy to go around, its the one thing both the left and right have in common - they are both hypocrites.

You may be right, but strong leaders sell hard things. Look at Zelensky. Maybe hindsight is 20/20 but Putin didn't need an excuse or rationalization to attack Ukraine. Putin had 100,000 troops on the border, it was obvious what he was going to do regardless of any rationalizations he needed from the West. Biden slow rolled sanctions on the banks, SWIFT, oil imports etc. He only gave into pressure supported by the success of Ukraine. That's not leadership.

 

[crush]

You may be right, but strong leaders sell hard things. Look at Zelensky. Maybe hindsight is 20/20 but Putin didn't need an excuse or rationalization to attack Ukraine. Putin had 100,000 troops on the border, it was obvious what he was going to do regardless of any rationalizations he needed from the West. Biden slow rolled sanctions on the banks, SWIFT, oil imports etc. He only gave into pressure supported by the success of Ukraine. That's not leadership.

The Kool Aid bro is way to strong for you in the morning. I swear you will be kicking yourself later for watching too much fake news. Stop watching the news and see what happens to your mind. Stop eating meat to see how healthy you can become and stop drinking booze and you will feel like a new man. I quit these three things and now I try and help my brothers out. I lose 99% of them on all three of the first requirements to change. Love you man The truth is the truth.

 

[whatithink]

You may be right, but strong leaders sell hard things. Look at Zelensky. Maybe hindsight is 20/20 but Putin didn't need an excuse or rationalization to attack Ukraine. Putin had 100,000 troops on the border, it was obvious what he was going to do regardless of any rationalizations he needed from the West. Biden slow rolled sanctions on the banks, SWIFT, oil imports etc. He only gave into pressure supported by the success of Ukraine. That's not leadership.

Biden didn't slow roll sanctions. Sanctions have slow rolled because not everyone agreed or agrees. Zelensky's leadership qualities have been excellent since the invasion, but nobody was talking up those qualities prior to the invasion, its been more of a "cometh the hour .." kind of thing. Prior to then there were major doubts, i.e. ex-actor, no real political experience etc.

The whole sanctions thing is a mixed bag, on the one side the US wanted harsher sanctions on oil/gas which the Europeans resisted & still resist due to their reliance on both, and on the other the US resisted harsher sanctions on SWIFT and still do to some extent, not least as if countries move away from settling in USD (see the Saudi / China conversations on settling for Oil in CNY) then watch a major crash / hit on the US economy as the value of the USD falls. There is a lot more at play than "just" Ukraine or Russia, i.e. there will always be ripple effects to actions or there can be tsunamis - you don't want the latter obviously.

The premise that a US president can lead or that countries will just follow is nonsense. China and Russia have been exerting soft power in under developed countries for the last couple of decades while the US has pulled back, not least due to cultural wars (making aid dependent on some US cultural tick box or calling them "shitty countries"). There is a long list of African countries that abstained in the UN, countries that have benefited from Chinese investment and Russian oil. A US president, 1 year into their term doesn't get to turn around the long term plans of countries that are executing multi decade plans on a whim or in a few weeks.

Another implication of all this, with the Europeans deciding to arm up, is that once they do, they will be less reliant on the US and as a result less inclined to fall lock step behind the US. So, while the US wants them to increase spending, it will ultimately have a negative impact on the US's leadership position imv.

 

[crush]

Zelensky's leadership qualities have been excellent.
Prior to then there were major doubts, i.e. ex-actor, no real political experience etc.

 

[watfly]

The premise that a US president can lead or that countries will just follow is nonsense.

Well not much to debate if that's your self defeating attitude that our President can't be a global leader.

 

[crush]

Well not much to debate if that's your self defeating attitude that our President can't be a global leader.

At least the President of Ukraine can dance. Watfly, do you see the truth yet? This is a movie with actors playing roles bro. Come on man....lol

 

[whatithink]

Well not much to debate if that's your self defeating attitude that our President can't be a global leader.

You need to re-read what I said. The US does not dictate. If your position is that the US president decides on a direction and then tells everyone to line up behind us, then you are deluded. If you think the US telling everyone which way to go is leadership, then you are sorely misguided.

Its called building a coalition, not creating a coalition. Biden has built a unified coalition who have imposed severe sanctions on Russia. The US is clearly leading that coalition, but that does not mean that everyone does whatever the US says, its a constant dialogue esp. with respect to further escalations. Nato has never been as unified in decades. "Allies" of Russia, such as Hungary, are aligned against it.

 

[crush]

Biden has built a unified coalition who have imposed severe sanctions on Russia.

and severe heart attacks, blood clots, super big inflation and $7 a gal for gas around the corner for the middle age and middle class person in the USA. Are you smoking crack? Be honest. Have you seen what is on Hunters laptop from hell? How about Wieners laptop?

 

[watfly]

You need to re-read what I said. The US does not dictate. If your position is that the US president decides on a direction and then tells everyone to line up behind us, then you are deluded. If you think the US telling everyone which way to go is leadership, then you are sorely misguided.

Its called building a coalition, not creating a coalition. Biden has built a unified coalition who have imposed severe sanctions on Russia. The US is clearly leading that coalition, but that does not mean that everyone does whatever the US says, its a constant dialogue esp. with respect to further escalations. Nato has never been as unified in decades. "Allies" of Russia, such as Hungary, are aligned against it.

You need to reread as well, both what you said and what I said. I never said the US can dictate, but it does have far more leverage to influence. Your also deluded if you think Biden has a built a coalition, he was typically the last of the NATO leaders to come around to the sanctions. He was also the one that put the kibosh on the MIG's.

 

[crush]

He was also the one that put the kibosh on the MIG's.

Thank God. Why are so many bent on more war intervention with our military in other folks conflicts? Biden is doing exactly what he is told to do and nothing else, trust me. He is one of many puppets being pulled by the Big Guys, the guys pulling all the strings. They love to play war with fear and make money on the wars through our leaders fears.