ECNL Expansion In Socal SW Division

[Carlsbad7]

Because without the DA all of the items above are not good enough. Most (not all) are reasons people are leaving the club. People would tolerate it for the DA.

I do agree that in Socal ECNL clubs are very good.

However, I don't think it's a smart to write GA clubs off 100%. Sure some parents will chase whatever alphabet league they feel strongly about. But this is a marathon not a sprint. Going full tilt from youngers all the way through college isn't realistic for most players. There will be movement + over time the best players will get recruited no matter what club they play for.

Think about this potential outcome. Say your kid is on a top ECNL team but not getting minutes. Or what if they get hurt + need time to rehab + play at a lower level. Does it make sense to drive and hour+ for practice just to keep a spot on the bench? Maybe you could bump down to ECRL but parent egos wont allow that. Bam, suddenly you're trying to get on the #1 GA team that's local.

Like I said before GA coaches/leadership that were able to get players college looks during DA often hasn't changed. Just like bottom of the barrel ECNL clubs coaches/leadership that has problems getting players in the JCs hasn't changed.

Finally who do you think ECNL clubs are going to try and recruit from if they hear about a hot player. A top ECNL club they would never leave from or a top GA club where there's a good chance they would be happy to jump.

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

Think about this potential outcome. Say your kid is on a top ECNL team but not getting minutes. Or what if they get hurt + need time to rehab + play at a lower level. Does it make sense to drive and hour+ for practice just to keep a spot on the bench? Maybe you could bump down to ECRL but parent egos wont allow that. Bam, suddenly you're trying to get on the #1 GA team that's local.

100% agree. The goal for our kids has to be to get visibility when playing these college showcases. What's the point of being a bench player on a top team if you are not getting the looks from the coaches? Access to college scouts and visibility are available with both ECNL and GA.

 

[crush]

100% agree. The goal for our kids has to be to get visibility when playing these college showcases. What's the point of being a bench player on a top team if you are not getting the looks from the coaches? Access to college scouts and visibility are available with both ECNL and GA.

100% brother. ECNL was spot on at Silver Lakes yesterday. I had no idea all the games were being played. I thought it was really cool to see many of the top college coaches from all the top schools at Silver Lakes yesterday. My dd finally got to play in a soccer game after her high school break to heal her body from all her injuries. I was impressed with games and ganas League games mean something more then the....."showcase the individual" in the games in AZ Showcase. Fields looked good but not like in AZ. I talked to one dad that said his dd was all ready to commit to a school in early Feb but the coach got whacked and she didnt feel any love from the new coach. This weekend, she found a great coach and a great school and got a deal. Really smart and excellent kid too. Lastly parents, your kid got's to be on the field to be seen.

 

[Speedy]

I do agree that in Socal ECNL clubs are very good.

However, I don't think it's a smart to write GA clubs off 100%. Sure some parents will chase whatever alphabet league they feel strongly about. But this is a marathon not a sprint. Going full tilt from youngers all the way through college isn't realistic for most players. There will be movement + over time the best players will get recruited no matter what club they play for.

Think about this potential outcome. Say your kid is on a top ECNL team but not getting minutes. Or what if they get hurt + need time to rehab + play at a lower level. Does it make sense to drive and hour+ for practice just to keep a spot on the bench? Maybe you could bump down to ECRL but parent egos wont allow that. Bam, suddenly you're trying to get on the #1 GA team that's local.

Like I said before GA coaches/leadership that were able to get players college looks during DA often hasn't changed. Just like bottom of the barrel ECNL clubs coaches/leadership that has problems getting players in the JCs hasn't changed.

Finally who do you think ECNL clubs are going to try and recruit from if they hear about a hot player. A top ECNL club they would never leave from or a top GA club where there's a good chance they would be happy to jump.

I agree with your assessment, the GA is a place for some kids that don't fit on the big club roster for whatever reason but are good enough to play in college.

My response was more about your point about a certain North County GA club and that it could keep talent when they were with the DA. They can't keep it now. That is not necessarily because of the change in leagues (from DA to GA). Some kids are getting recruited but more are leaving because of the leadership. Families would overlook that when they were in the DA. Not happening anymore.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I agree with your assessment, the GA is a place for some kids that don't fit on the big club roster for whatever reason but are good enough to play in college.

My response was more about your point about a certain North County GA club and that it could keep talent when they were with the DA. They can't keep it now. That is not necessarily because of the change in leagues (from DA to GA). Some kids are getting recruited but more are leaving because of the leadership. Families would overlook that when they were in the DA. Not happening anymore.

1000% correct

The reason that club is able to get away with what they're doing is because on the Boys side they have MLS Next which is the doing much better against ECNL than GA.

In the end it doesn't matter, players/parents will gravitate to whatever solution they feel strongly about. I mean come on, if Southwest ECNL really wanted to be the super league certain clubs wouldn't have been invited to the party. On the other side if GA really wanted to be the "best of the best" they would just join ECNL. Take a step back and you'll see the reality is that leagues are about separating parents from their $$$. Competition is important but $$$ is importanter.

At least we have tournaments like Surf Cup + others where the big clubs show off their finished products.

 

[GT45]

"if GA really wanted to be the "best of the best" they would just join ECNL"

This is not a choice they have though. They created their own league for clubs that were victims of DA folding, and ECNL did not offer.

 

[jimlewis]

"if GA really wanted to be the "best of the best" they would just join ECNL"

This is not a choice they have though. They created their own league for clubs that were victims of DA folding, and ECNL did not offer.

Wonder why we haven't started a discussion topic of "expansion of GA in the SW". Its because there is nothing on the horizon, and no one wants to join a dying league.

 

[tjinaz]

Wonder why we haven't started a discussion topic of "expansion of GA in the SW". Its because there is nothing on the horizon, and no one wants to join a dying league.

Actually.... FC Tucson and SC Del Sol are joining SW GA in the 2022 - 2023 season. SCDS is moving from mountain and FC Tucson is new to GA/DPL. The top girls were having to drive from Tucson to Phoenix for practice as there were no top level teams in the metro area. FC Tucson will now capture all that talent for their GA teams. There were many girls on ECNL and GA teams in phoenix that will now join that GA program.

 

[Desert Hound]

Actually.... FC Tucson and SC Del Sol are joining SW GA in the 2022 - 2023 season. SCDS is moving from mountain and FC Tucson is new to GA/DPL. The top girls were having to drive from Tucson to Phoenix for practice as there were no top level teams in the metro area. FC Tucson will now capture all that talent for their GA teams. There were many girls on ECNL and GA teams in phoenix that will now join that GA program.

ECNL is still going to be the draw for the best girls in Tucson.

That said there are not large numbers of girls in Tucson currently driving up to Phoenix to play for ECNL clubs.

del Sol is struggling in the recruiting game as it relates to GA. With the advent of GA del Sol hasn't been able to recruit much. The best players in the area are going to the ECNL clubs. The 2 youngest age groups for del Sol in the GA show that. Neither team has a win. Between the 2 teams they have managed a total of 5 goals over 28 games.

GA doesn't seem to be of interest for those aging into the years where you can either join and ECNL club or a GA club.

 

[Larzby]

Actually.... FC Tucson and SC Del Sol are joining SW GA in the 2022 - 2023 season. SCDS is moving from mountain and FC Tucson is new to GA/DPL. The top girls were having to drive from Tucson to Phoenix for practice as there were no top level teams in the metro area. FC Tucson will now capture all that talent for their GA teams. There were many girls on ECNL and GA teams in phoenix that will now join that GA program.

Also, FRAM was recently added to GA, so there doesn't seem to be a shortage of teams wanting in.
But I'd love to do a study to see what percentage of the GA haters on this board have kids playing on the struggling ECNL teams, as opposed to the top ECNL teams. Because I'm missing the point of bashing GA. Clubs seem happy to join GA, regardless of the relative strengths of the two leagues. If your kid is on the strongest team in the strongest league, I'm happy for you, but I doubt you'd see much point in bashing the "dying" league.

 

[Desert Hound]

Also, FRAM was recently added to GA, so there doesn't seem to be a shortage of teams wanting in.
But I'd love to do a study to see what percentage of the GA haters on this board have kids playing on the struggling ECNL teams, as opposed to the top ECNL teams. Because I'm missing the point of bashing GA. Clubs seem happy to join GA, regardless of the relative strengths of the two leagues. If your kid is on the strongest team in the strongest league, I'm happy for you, but I doubt you'd see much point in bashing the "dying" league.

It certainly seems some clubs do want in. It also appears their showcases are well run and attended.

That said in the SW it is a distant 2nd. In other parts of the country it may not be a distant second.

In Phx based on where kids go, the GA club seems to be the 4th choice (the other 3 ECNL clubs being the top options).

I am not bashing the league. Just observing that in Phx when kids age in, where they seem to prefer to go to.

 

[Larzby]

It certainly seems some clubs do want in. It also appears their showcases are well run and attended.

That said in the SW it is a distant 2nd. In other parts of the country it may not be a distant second.

In Phx based on where kids go, the GA club seems to be the 4th choice (the other 3 ECNL clubs being the top options).

I am not bashing the league. Just observing that in Phx when kids age in, where they seem to prefer to go to.

Can't argue with any of that. (My comment was a response to someone else's post). Maybe someday we can get promotion/relegation, so this particular argument can end, and teams and players can "decide things on the field."

 

[espola]

Can't argue with any of that. (My comment was a response to someone else's post). Maybe someday we can get promotion/relegation, so this particular argument can end, and teams and players can "decide things on the field."

It's not clear where you would promote from, since ECNL is a self-contained entity.

 

[what-happened]

ECNL is still going to be the draw for the best girls in Tucson.

That said there are not large numbers of girls in Tucson currently driving up to Phoenix to play for ECNL clubs.

del Sol is struggling in the recruiting game as it relates to GA. With the advent of GA del Sol hasn't been able to recruit much. The best players in the area are going to the ECNL clubs. The 2 youngest age groups for del Sol in the GA show that. Neither team has a win. Between the 2 teams they have managed a total of 5 goals over 28 games.

GA doesn't seem to be of interest for those aging into the years where you can either join and ECNL club or a GA club.

I know our opinions on the fate of ol Del Sol are different, we'll just leave that where it is. Their 06 and 07 teams are heads and shoulders better then the other 3 clubs. Their youngers certainly struggle, especially their U13s ( they've never had to recruit in the past). U14s apparently are an improvement from last year and a work in progress. Del Sol tends to be a tough learn, with development/understanding occurring at U15. It's also where they recruit best...not much patience in recruting younger than that. Plenty can happen between 13-15 years of ag

With all of that said, interesting conversations with parents of U13s and 14s - waiting to enter ECNL/GA at U15 is being seen as the smart thing to do. Parents are shying away from the expensive cost to drive to CA for a U13/14 game and seeking out more local clubs that offer great coaching. Never mind how expensive ECNL/GA clubs are to begin with. U13 travel beyond 1 hr (without traffic) seems silly to me.

RSL is certainly the best AZ ECNL club, Arsenal is a pleasant surprise, and the demise of Rising is interesting. Increase in East Vally population and access to world class fcilities is nothing but good news for Arsenal.

Unfortunately too many leagues and too many clubs in those leagues will always hamper talent consolidation in AZ. Just the way it is I guess.

 

[met61]

It's not clear where you would promote from, since ECNL is a self-contained entity.

...just spitballing for girls side...it could probably start along the lines of combining top leagues, say ECNL & GA, under a national sanctioning body with regional leagues and a structured vertical ranking system of upward and downward movement based on record...culminating in a annual national championship.

 

[Desert Hound]

Del Sol tends to be a tough learn, with development/understanding occurring at U15. It's also where they recruit best...not much patience in recruting younger than that. Plenty can happen between 13-15 years of ag

Actually I disagree on this point.

When they were in ECNL they recruited heavily at the entry age groups. And quite frankly got most of the best kids. Sereno did a poor job. Those were the only 2 options in town for ECNL at the time.

When they got DA, the gravy train continued.

The core of the teams were set and then what they did was add a key player here and there over the years. That isn't happening anymore.

When they moved to GA and there were ECNL options in the Valley...the equation changed dramatically. And it shows in their 2 youngest age groups. Based on what is happening, I would be surprised if next years entry group is any good. And the 2 current youngest teams? Parents and kids looking around are not interested in joining teams that combined over 24 or 28 games have a combined total of 5 goals. The best kids will look to better clubs. Getting onto a team that gets smoked is not desirable.

They also don't have any core group of kids internally. They have at most 1 team in all the APL leagues in AZ. Not many in the Open Leagues as well.

It isn't a recipe for success going forward.

 

[crush]

I say Socal just goes with three divisions; First Division, Second Division & Third Division and 100% no dads allowed to be involved, if you know what I mean. Dad has stay off BODs and buying clubs and no more rubbing elbows with the Docs. I do respect the ECNL and all it's done to help girls play in college. The GDA Travel Across America League was insane and no way 99% of the rest of us could afford to pay to play in that league. I would love to see three divisions is my point in Socal and we have the talent to pull it off.

 

[what-happened]

Actually I disagree on this point.

When they were in ECNL they recruited heavily at the entry age groups. And quite frankly got most of the best kids. Sereno did a poor job. Those were the only 2 options in town for ECNL at the time.

When they got DA, the gravy train continued.

The core of the teams were set and then what they did was add a key player here and there over the years. That isn't happening anymore.

When they moved to GA and there were ECNL options in the Valley...the equation changed dramatically. And it shows in their 2 youngest age groups. Based on what is happening, I would be surprised if next years entry group is any good. And the 2 current youngest teams? Parents and kids looking around are not interested in joining teams that combined over 24 or 28 games have a combined total of 5 goals. The best kids will look to better clubs. Getting onto a team that gets smoked is not desirable.

They also don't have any core group of kids internally. They have at most 1 team in all the APL leagues in AZ. Not many in the Open Leagues as well.

It isn't a recipe for success going forward.

The U13s/U14s are certainy having a tough go, but their 07s were on a similar trajectory not too long ago, they are now the best team in the state, taking players from the other 3 clubs. As the age groups progress and get passed on to the next coach, those coaches recruit.

Since I've been here (really since the inception of the DA), the Del Sol teams have never been "core" teams. They've been made up of recruited players. Mind you, my oldest has aged out, and my youngest no longer plays soccer. Both were migrants from another top club, as was most of the teams(s).

Your points are logical but Del Sol has always been about quality, not quantity. They don't consider representation in APL or the open leagues as a priority. Is it a flawed model? Maybe, I suppose we will find out next year when the 08s are U15s. We will see who/what they recruit and how well they do. The 07s struggled their first year. With some recruiting from the other clubs, they are easily the #1 team in the state, and a top team in GA. The real story I suppose is Rising, losing talent to every club and underperforming in every age group.

Opinions and parents vary in views but it seems like more parents are more reluctant to pay top dollar for U13s/14s to travel anywhere to get their collective butts handed to them. It happens to AZ teams in both leagues.

I do appreciate your perspective and logic though.

 

[whatithink]

The U13s/U14s are certainy having a tough go, but their 07s were on a similar trajectory not too long ago, they are now the best team in the state, taking players from the other 3 clubs. As the age groups progress and get passed on to the next coach, those coaches recruit.

Since I've been here (really since the inception of the DA), the Del Sol teams have never been "core" teams. They've been made up of recruited players. Mind you, my oldest has aged out, and my youngest no longer plays soccer. Both were migrants from another top club, as was most of the teams(s).

Your points are logical but Del Sol has always been about quality, not quantity. They don't consider representation in APL or the open leagues as a priority. Is it a flawed model? Maybe, I suppose we will find out next year when the 08s are U15s. We will see who/what they recruit and how well they do. The 07s struggled their first year. With some recruiting from the other clubs, they are easily the #1 team in the state, and a top team in GA. The real story I suppose is Rising, losing talent to every club and underperforming in every age group.

Opinions and parents vary in views but it seems like more parents are more reluctant to pay top dollar for U13s/14s to travel anywhere to get their collective butts handed to them. It happens to AZ teams in both leagues.

I do appreciate your perspective and logic though.

I'm not sure about your view on the DS 07s. DS won state cup at U11, then dropped 4/5 players & recruited half a team from CCV (who had won the league and didn't play state cup). That U12 team is their core group even now afaik. They have added/lost 1/2 players a year since then. They skipped U13, played up at U14, and then played U14 proper in GA etc. They may be the best 07 team in the state, but they don't play the other 07 teams and don't have as hard a schedule being in GA vs the SoCal ECNL division as those other teams have. So, I'm not sure why some people think they are (I've seen a few state that), and until they play the other teams (unlikely), we won't know.

IMV, middle schoolers on travel teams is just silly. U13/14 should be discounted. Royals had the "best" U13 (08) team last year .. they lost a couple of players & are the worse this year (of ECNL teams) - at that age, a year can make a huge difference in physical development, IQ and with some good coaching. As was said above, it doesn't matter until U15 or even U16, so I doubt DS care that much and are just building a core group and will recruit.

If they keep placing their players into good colleges, then they will attract good players - that is the point after all (for many).

 

[Desert Hound]

As the age groups progress and get passed on to the next coach, those coaches recruit.

Since I've been here (really since the inception of the DA), the Del Sol teams have never been "core" teams. They've been made up of recruited players.

And again in the past del Sol didn't have to recruit hard. Kids/parents wanted to go there. It was the best club. They have the BEST platform and the best teams.

They have issues now.

1) Parents/kids know where the best platform for competition is. It is NOT the GA in this area. ECNL clubs will and are getting the top players. Remember the last year Royals were in the GA? They basically blew away the competition in most every age group. They had a ridiculously good record across age groups. Now that they are back in the ECNL? Lower half of the division in most cases. In other words they are facing far better competition and the record reflects it.

2) If you are going to get better you need to practice and play vs better competition. Kids/Parents will naturally gravitate towards that platform and clubs.

3) The above issues show why the 2 most recent (youngest teams) at del Sol don't even have a win this season in a league that has weaker competition vs the ECNL in this area. They are not getting the good players anymore.

4) The good players will not be interested in joining a team that cannot win and gets blown out when they can go to one of the ECNL clubs. Those 2 youngest teams are unlikely to make big improvements next year. There is a club in the SW ECNL division whose teams regularly get blown out. The best kids in the area are not looking to join those teams. If anything the best players on that club are looking to get out and get on a team that is competitive.

5) It is unlikely the trend will change next year with del Sol's newest entry team suddenly full of talent. Those kids coming in next year are looking to play in the top league in the area and practice with and play against the best competition. Most of the best talent will flow to one of the three ECNL clubs.

del Sol has the 2nd best league offering in the Valley. Their recruiting related to their 2 youngest teams reflects that.

The reality is this. If your kid is good, you are not starting off your search with del Sol. You are looking to one of the 3 ECNL clubs in the area.

 

[crush]

And again in the past del Sol didn't have to recruit hard. Kids/parents wanted to go there. It was the best club. They have the BEST platform and the best teams.

They have issues now.

1) Parents/kids know where the best platform for competition is. It is NOT the GA in this area. ECNL clubs will and are getting the top players. Remember the last year Royals were in the GA? They basically blew away the competition in most every age group. They had a ridiculously good record across age groups. Now that they are back in the ECNL? Lower half of the division in most cases. In other words they are facing far better competition and the record reflects it.

2) If you are going to get better you need to practice and play vs better competition. Kids/Parents will naturally gravitate towards that platform and clubs.

3) The above issues show why the 2 most recent (youngest teams) at del Sol don't even have a win this season in a league that has weaker competition vs the ECNL in this area. They are not getting the good players anymore.

4) The good players will not be interested in joining a team that cannot win and gets blown out when they can go to one of the ECNL clubs. Those 2 youngest teams are unlikely to make big improvements next year. There is a club in the SW ECNL division whose teams regularly get blown out. The best kids in the area are not looking to join those teams. If anything the best players on that club are looking to get out and get on a team that is competitive.

5) It is unlikely the trend will change next year with del Sol's newest entry team suddenly full of talent. Those kids coming in next year are looking to play in the top league in the area and practice with and play against the best competition. Most of the best talent will flow to one of the three ECNL clubs.

del Sol has the 2nd best league offering in the Valley. Their recruiting related to their 2 youngest teams reflects that.

The reality is this. If your kid is good, you are not starting off your search with del Sol. You are looking to one of the 3 ECNL clubs in the area.

Spot on Hound. That's why the good players would bail on those old Legends and Beach teams before they got the GDA and skipped over all the others and were top clubs for two years or so. Then they had to beg to get into ECRL and that was lame. Surf was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Because they were not winners in ECNL, they had an either us or them deal and it was high stakes youth soccer poker. The parents or some like to say the customers, were stuck with the middleman. Blues got both ECNL and GDA because they won. Rodman, Turner and Jackson is not a bad front line. Slammers had to go Either or as well and got two spots for the price of one and went all in ECNL. Surf went all in GDA and got a 5 year contract for playoffs and DPL. AZ was tossed around and now I have no idea who the best of the best is anymore. It was a big time toxic war over here in Socal for three years. I know a coach that was ECNL, then GDA, then GAL and now he's selling ECNL again. My dd played first year of GDA and Del Sol was a very tough out. Granted we had that 25% everyone starts rule so the not so good players who paid to play made it hard to figure out the best of the best.