p.s. under the editorial standard dad 4 laid out, it's not so much Whoopi (who by definition since she herself engaged in misinformation would be cancellable) who is the subject of controversy. By definition under his standard Whoopi, we should all agree, should be cancelled. The relevant person is Colbert, who allowed her to make such statements, and the View, assuming they don't punish Whoopi, given their editorial control.
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
p.s. under the editorial standard dad 4 laid out, it's not so much Whoopi (who by definition since she herself engaged in misinformation would be cancellable) who is the subject of controversy. By definition under his standard Whoopi, we should all agree, should be cancelled. The relevant person is Colbert, who allowed her to make such statements, and the View, assuming they don't punish Whoopi, given their editorial control.
While I disagree with you on the outcome, I do appreciate and admire your consistency.
Errr....it's a technique commonly used as part of the socratic method, which they rang me through the ringer in law school with, and which I myself employed when teaching.
As to your Trump critique, I'd say it's a fair point.
Typical Socratic argument:
Noob: You should make your own arguments, not just put words in other people’s mouths.
Plato: But the words stand on their own, do they not?
Noob: Why, yes Plato, thank you for showing me the errors of my ways.
Plato: And the words speak for themselves even better when I get to write both sides of the conversation, correct?
Noob: Well said, yet again.
Nope. But something that makes you uncomfortable isn't necessarily misinformation. We're subject to opinions, exaggeration, hyperbole, incomplete information, false statements, etc on a daily basis. That information comes from all sides regardless of political leanings, race, gender, age etc. It's your job to sort out that information and determine what you should believe.
Like Rogan said today's misinformation may be tomorrow's truth. Just because a majority, or the most vocal, believe something is true doesn't make it true, and when the majority gets to decide what is true that's called authoritarian control. (Look up the B.I.T.E. model).
Whether the misinformation is in an abundance of caution or potentially increases risk, makes no matter. I think the best thing that the "misinformers" could do would be to issue a retraction or correction. At least Rogan said he can do a better job of presenting both sides. Where are the corrections from all the talking heads that said you can't spread the virus if your vaccinated?
The paperchase is probably the best representation of the socratic method (legally blonde is the cliff notes version of it).
Kingsfield said it best: "The study of law is something new and unfamiliar to most of you, unlike any schooling you’ve ever been through before. We use the Socratic Method here. I call on you, ask you a question and you answer it. Why don’t I just give you a lecture? Because through my questions you learn to teach yourselves. Through this method of questioning, answering, questioning, answering, we seek to develop in you the ability to analyse that vast complex of facts that constitute the relationships of members within a given society. Questioning and answering. At times you may feel that you have found the correct answer; I assure you that this is a total delusion on your part. You’ll never find the correct absolute and final answer. In my classroom there is always another question, another question to follow your answer. As you’re on a treadmill. My little questions spin the tumblers of your mind. You’re on an operating table. My little question are the fingers probing your brain. We do brain surgery here. You teach yourself the law, but I train your mind. You come here with a skull full of mush; and you leave thinking like a lawyer.”
Law school was practically worthless in my mind, except in teaching logic, reasoning and the ability to think on your own. I'd always go to the classes with teachers that taught that way. For everyone else, I spent a lot of time at the ihop after a late night parties at the div school.
That's pretty cool....so that's where the expression comes from! Surprised it has still stuck around in the lexicon.
"All that crap, you're putting it in the paper? It's all been denied. Katie Graham's gonna get her tit caught in a big fat wringer if that's published. Good Christ! That's the most sickening thing I ever heard."
Attorney General John Mitchell. 1972.
Socratic question -- what is there past tense of the verb "to wring"?
Desert Hound
DA
My VERY BIG concern is that you are seeing major platforms such as youtube, twitter, etc shut down points of view they do not like.
Not a good trend in the least.
We do not want to live in a world where a gov or a major entity can shut down discussion they don't like.
Rather Orwellian.
Right now it is mainly entities run by leftists doing this. In the future it could be the right.
Under no circumstance should we allow it.
whatithink
GOLD
I'm sure Mao or Stalin massacred more of their own people, over a longer period of time mind you. Colonist to the Americas managed to eradicate tens of millions of Native Americans, due to ignorance, carelessness and not caring either way. I'm sure there are other examples. There doesn't have to be a worst ... humanity has way too many examples of "worser". Maybe we'll grow up some day, doubt it though.
One thing that has always horrified me about the Holocaust was the cold, calculating efficiency with which the Nazis went about the business of exterminating fellow human beings, men, women & children, purely because they were Jews. I can't fathom it, and hope I never can.
Desert Hound
DA
And our press was/is too partisan to do any actual investigation.
Just like covid, information keeps coming out that makes the gov/press look bad.
justthenews.com
Just like covid, information keeps coming out that makes the gov/press look bad.
Biden Boomerang: Newly released State memos undercut Democrats' Ukraine impeachment story
State Department officials told Ukraine prosecutor they were "impressed" with his work shortly before Biden forced his firing.
justthenews.com
Plenty of shouting down on campuses.
Not what I see on Spotify, at least so far. Give them 2 months. They may just be helping Rogan get the support staff he needs to do his job properly. Koppel and Cronkite had teams of people doing all sorts of research and legwork. Rogan should have the same.
whatithink
GOLD
You should, imo, be more concerned with censorship of education by both the right & left, by managing adding/banning content that they don't agree with - NOT whether its factually correct or not. Educate everyone to a common high standard based on facts, critical thinking etc. and you "solve" the problem, theoretically at least.
Private companies will stand or fall based on their policies. The key being that they are private, for profit ventures. Those same private companies funnel large amounts of campaign finances into BOTH parties.
Congress could legislate, but then whoever controls Congress would be the censors, and would have the ability to change it every 2-4 years. The censors would also take their guidance from the campaign funders as usual, so you are back to the private companies.
...and Poles, and Russians, and blacks, and Gypsies, and homosexuals, and communists, etc, etc, etc. The only complaint I have ever heard about Holocaust history is that it belittles (in the minds of those doing the complaining) the other atrocities the Nazis were committing at the same time.
Rogan's not a journalist, but he plays one on the internet.
What exactly is Joe Rogan's job? Has he ever claimed to be a journalist? Has he ever claimed to be a news reporter?
Seems to me he is a talk show entertainer. While it would be a good idea, he has no obligation to anyone to have a fact checking research team. In fact, I believe his style has appeal because it is free flowing conversation and not scripted with pre-determined and researched questions. I give it no more credibility than my buddies and I sitting around shooting the bull.
The Amish still use them in several varieties depending on the local rules for using electric machinery.
Story time (yeah I know espola). You heard about that some school districts are trying to remove "To Kill a Mocking Bird" from the school curric? They already did it to a lot of Twain works on the grounds that it has insensitive language and how would a person of African American descent feel having to be forced to read the "n" work, perhaps even outloud in class. Conservatives are complaining loudly this is censorship particularly since they are established and famous works of literature central to the pantheon of good books.
The little known fact is this is happening from the right too. The left has especially made a curriculum push to include more diverse works from diverse authors. Some of this, though, has some graphic or explicit content (as a lot of modern works do) that people on the right complain about exposing kids and their sensitive ears. For example, "Handmaid's Tale", "Diary of a Part Time Indian", and some others came under attack by conservatives in our local district for the same reason and caused a huge controversy in front of the school board (ultimately leading to the conservatives who had a 3 to 2 advantage on the board losing a seat and swinging the board when the teachers union went all in against one of the candidates).
Interestingly, a lot of the arguments degenerated into trust the experts (in this case the teacher's union and curriculum experts) v. let parents make the decision, much like COVID. The problem is we as a society no longer agree on what is acceptable speech or acceptable reading in polite company, hence we get these clashes (much like Whoopi and Colbert get a pass because they are on the side of right and justice, but Rogan doesn't because he's on the side dangerous misinformation). It even extends to morals and behavior (BLM rallies good and o.k. during lockdown but Trump rallies no, Clinton's conduct is forgivable but Trump is a dangerous cad),
whatithink
GOLD
Yes, I get that and agree that none of them should be forgotten. Estimates (I've read of) are 8-11 million murdered in concentration camps, of which 6M are estimated to be Jews. That brutal, cold efficiency was agnostic WRT the victims.
It also goes to the "worser" comment, i.e. the Russians/Soviets lost 27M by some accounts in WW2.