Soccer gave away the golden goose to other sports at high school
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OrangeCountyDad
SILVER ELITE
I'm not going to read all the replies, but since this completely veered off course I'll do my small part to swing it back slightly.
I think there are a few challenges. one is field space. Many schools just don't have a lot of field space to allow teams to practice or play games. so you have to squeeze it in when you can, primarily after football, before lacrosse, before baseball. My kid's team would walk a block to a nearby elementary school on some days just so all 3 teams could have field space.
For crowd sizes, yes the 'event' of football doesn't translate well to soccer, and doesn't have a tradition of pep bands like football does. Maybe you could get a band director to show up? but they're burnt from marching season by the time football is over and they want a break too (source: 1 kid was in band, the other played soccer). A large chunk of HS football crowd is family and friends. A soccer roster is just so much smaller, so even when the parents show up it's 30 maybe 40 people per side. Football is what 40 person roster?
For my kid's high school soccer the problem was really kickoff time. even varsity many times would play at 3pm, 4pm. One game per season against the cross town rival would be a night game.
But as you said, it would go a long way if the boys would attend the girl's games, and vice versa. Same goes for any activity. I remember one year at my kid's school the football coach gave off-season football players extra credit for attending an orchestra concert. Band supports them all season, it was only fair he said that they show up for one show.
I think a small part of it, at least in southern california, we are not generally a culture that supports lower league teams. USL, NISA, ECHL, WCHL, whatever else you want to name. Attendance is low at those events. High School soccer viewing is not a much different mindset.
Could it change? yes. but it would take a lot of lift from activity directors, ADs, opposite-gender coaches, the entire student body. Games are not always held in stadiums so that presents it's own problems.
As participation in football wanes, it is in teams' and schools' best interest to find other activities to raise student body engagement.
Excellent points. I say soccer should be in the Spring and keep it to JV and Varsity only for most schools. Soccer in the Winter cold sucks!!!
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
I had a friend who thought his kid from an upper income neighborhood was going to be an amazing basketball player when he was just starting high school. This kid was one of the best players in the valley in middle school. The club team decided to play a tournament in Compton and my friend realized that his son's NBA career prospects were over once he played against the inner city kids that were all over 6 feet at just a young age of 13.
Eagle33
PREMIER
What happened to my brudda Crush???
Hahahaha. This was so me back in the day at the LB Boys & Girls Club before I got to HS and wondered outside of my OC protected bubble. Not upper income, just dreamed it. Fast forward to freshman year of HS Hoops season. I worked hard and busted my ass and dove for anything. I took charges and was just a pest for the big guys. The Varsity coach at the time appreciated my my hard work and invited me to play with the Varsity at The LBHS Christmas Classic. At this stage in my ego, I was 100% going to UCLA and then be drafted by the Lakers. It was all planned in my head and my adopted mommy & daddy told me I can do whatever I so desire. Our first game happen to be the Long Beach Poly Jack Rabbits. I got in the game towards the end of the mismatch but saw plenty from the front row bench that I was NEVER going to play for UCLA or the Lakers. My dream was over. I decided to go for Pro baseball player but Capo's pitchers told me I sucked because I couldn't hit the curve ball. I was honest with myself
He got suspended for foul language and ego issues.
I had a similar experience in Lacrosse. Played HS then Club in collage. My younger brother was 6'6" and was able to convert that into a spot on the University of Denver Lacrosse team (In the soccer world this would be equivalent to UCLA). He invited me down to hang out + the guys on the team said to bring my equipment for a session.Hahahaha. This was so me back in the day at the LB Boys & Girls Club before I got to HS and wondered outside of my OC protected bubble. Not upper income, just dreamed it. Fast forward to freshman year of HS Hoops season. I worked hard and busted my ass and dove for anything. I took charges and was just a pest for the big guys. The Varsity coach at the time appreciated my my hard work and invited me to play with the Varsity at The LBHS Christmas Classic. At this stage in my ego, I was 100% going to UCLA and then be drafted by the Lakers. It was all planned in my head and my adopted mommy & daddy told me I can do whatever I so desire. Our first game happen to be the Long Beach Poly Jack Rabbits. I got in the game towards the end of the mismatch but saw plenty from the front row bench that I was NEVER going to play for UCLA or the Lakers. My dream was over. I decided to go for Pro baseball player but Capo's pitchers told me I sucked because I couldn't hit the curve ball. I was honest with myself
All I can say was OMG were these guys good. Everyone was as big as me even the "short" fast guys and all the Defenders were 3-6" taller. The speed that they played was incredible. It felt like for every step I took they had taken 2. Different trick shots, etc that I could hit 1 out of every 6x they hit consistently every time.
Every player needs to go through this type of experience once to set their expectations to what playing at the highest levels is really like. Once you see it things become much more clear.
SoulTrain
BRONZE
I keep reading about how awful high school soccer is. On the girls side in San Diego last year, I watched a CIF Open Championship game that had at least 10 girls that are currently or will be playing D1 soccer year. Every girl starting on both TP and LCC was good enough to start for any D3 school in the US. Yes, many of the high school teams play over the top, long ball soccer as opposed to their ECNL/GAL/SoCal Champions League teams but I've watched plenty of decent D1 schools that play the exact same style. Does it make it less enjoyable to watch? Absolutely not. In fact I'd much rather watch that type of play with kids that I've known since elementary school than watching our cut-throat club team where girls are driving in from all over San Diego and Orange County and I hardly get to know their names before they are off to the next shiny penny. Just one dad's opinion.
dk_b
GOLD
I enjoy watching HS soccer, even this year that my twins are rehabbing ACL tears. Why? For the reasons you articulate. I enjoyed watching their older sister play ECNL, play HS and now play college. And I also enjoyed watching all my kids play back in the micro days.
Look, I'm someone who will go watch my friends' and family members' kids play really low level sports (guy I worked with has a kid playing t-ball? What time is the game? Woman I went college with has a kid lacing up the skates? When does the puck drop? Soccer teammate of my twins is playing a club lacrosse game down the street? I'm there!). It's all about expectations. I don't expect La Liga, just as I don't expect French Laundry if I go to Chili's. But I can still find enjoyment at whatever level (cold beer, a good game on the TV and some chili fries . . . sounds good to me).
Boom!!
My ex HSS hoops teammate never left our city and goes to soccer games, basketball games and baseball games. He walks over from his crib and just loves to cheer on the local home team. I saw at our last game. I can;t imagine him saying to me, "Hey bro, this is awful soccer I'm leaving." No way he would ever do that.
graciesdad
BRONZE
Right on point. What do expect when you put 15-20 players together for two weeks of practice versus a club team that trains all year or years? Easy solution, ball over the top, run it down and shoot the ball. I would never expect "club style" buildouts in this scenario. Good Team!
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
Agree!
Compare Chelsea fc vs Liverpool this past weekend to one of the copa America games between Argentina and Colombia or Brazil va Uruguay. The quality of play is not great compared to the professional club teams. At least this is the case in the first few games of any international tournament. The lack of training as a unit makes it difficult to match club level soccer.
Simisoccerfan
PREMIER
As long as the NFL, NBA, and MLB exist soccer will never get the priority at the youth level. Too much money, power and politics involved. Women's sports generally get a small fraction of viewership that even mediocre men's sports get. On the boy's soccer side youth soccer in SoCal is dominated by Hispanic players and their supporters just don't have the political power yet that they should have to demand equal access to facilities that other sports enjoy. I wish it was different but though soccer is making slow progress I don't envision soccer being a top HS sport anytime soon with cheerleaders and playing in a warmer season.
There are multiple problem with baseball on all levels (major leagues, minor leagues, youth). Soccer should have passed MLB baseball by now but due to its own problems it will still likely take some time (unless baseball magically reforms itself at all levels).
Gridiron football too has had issues from declining participation to the concussion problems to the politics, but you are right, it's a very powerful sport. Basketball isn't going anywhere. Soccer, at least for the men, will be the no. 3 sport for a long time to come.
Strike Three: Baseball Is Dead
Baseball has declined in popularity, and that will have a long-lasting effect on the culture at large. Years from now, a young child will ask, "Grandpa, what was baseball?"
howtheyplay.com
Simisoccerfan
PREMIER
There are multiple problem with baseball on all levels (major leagues, minor leagues, youth). Soccer should have passed MLB baseball by now but due to its own problems it will still likely take some time (unless baseball magically reforms itself at all levels).
Gridiron football too has had issues from declining participation to the concussion problems to the politics, but you are right, it's a very powerful sport. Basketball isn't going anywhere. Soccer, at least for the men, will be the no. 3 sport for a long time to come.
Strike Three: Baseball Is Dead
Baseball has declined in popularity, and that will have a long-lasting effect on the culture at large. Years from now, a young child will ask, "Grandpa, what was baseball?"
It is ambitious to say men's soccer in the US is the No 3 sport. More like No 6 (maybe). NHL and MLB annually TV contract is at least double of the MLS contract. Nascar, Football and NFL is 10's of times higher. Golf is higher than MLS. So actually maybe No 7 unless you include the Olympics. I think if you include the EPL US rights and other European leagues it is still not in the top 5.
Fair point re the NHL though the closure of ice rinks in the South and West over the last decade has also impacted that sport.
As to Nascar/Golf/Tennis while certainly sports, I don't think it's fair to compare them to team sports, which are quite a different animal.
Very interesting thread here. I don't even know what dd is, but I have a feeling that my daughter is my dd. I like to learn a bit about what's to come for a young lady (10 years old) with this sport. I think this thread has exposed several of the challenges with soccer in America. The 2 I can't help, but focus on are:
#1. sport popularity (viewership, audience)
#2. club soccer dominance for upward mobility
American Football pays the bills for many other sports and activities in high school and college. People pay money to watch football. My opinion is that to help women make more money playing soccer, you need to get more people to pay money to watch it or at least watch it on the t.v. I learned to love watching women's college soccer even more so than men. I am invested with my own daughter of course, but I have developed a love for women's soccer as a man (dad). This is what I think we need to focus on. We need an ambassador of marketing to expand women's soccer viewership somehow.
I kind of agree with the beginning post here though and there are advantages to American Football with the season and existing popularity. I am rushed here, because I can't wait to go watch my daughter's team and other team's play at the 10 year old level. I think the more you love the sport, the more you don't care about the level of play.
I'm a solution guy and would really love to see soccer grow as a sport in America especially for women's soccer and can't help, but wonder if the dominance of club soccer where viewership/audience is going to be less vs high school reduces the potential for growing the popularity of soccer. American Football also has a huge advantage with the number of players with families. There are more than 50 players on a high school football team and like 10 or more coaches. They have an instant audience of 200 plus people ONE EACH SIDE before spectators are even counted.
I wish we had a soccer ambassador in America and if we currently do, I'm not so sure they are doing it well??
#1. sport popularity (viewership, audience)
#2. club soccer dominance for upward mobility
American Football pays the bills for many other sports and activities in high school and college. People pay money to watch football. My opinion is that to help women make more money playing soccer, you need to get more people to pay money to watch it or at least watch it on the t.v. I learned to love watching women's college soccer even more so than men. I am invested with my own daughter of course, but I have developed a love for women's soccer as a man (dad). This is what I think we need to focus on. We need an ambassador of marketing to expand women's soccer viewership somehow.
I kind of agree with the beginning post here though and there are advantages to American Football with the season and existing popularity. I am rushed here, because I can't wait to go watch my daughter's team and other team's play at the 10 year old level. I think the more you love the sport, the more you don't care about the level of play.
I'm a solution guy and would really love to see soccer grow as a sport in America especially for women's soccer and can't help, but wonder if the dominance of club soccer where viewership/audience is going to be less vs high school reduces the potential for growing the popularity of soccer. American Football also has a huge advantage with the number of players with families. There are more than 50 players on a high school football team and like 10 or more coaches. They have an instant audience of 200 plus people ONE EACH SIDE before spectators are even counted.
I wish we had a soccer ambassador in America and if we currently do, I'm not so sure they are doing it well??
Perhaps 20 colleges have profitable football programs. Maybe in Texas a popular school football turns a profit, but I have seen nothing in California high schools that would lead me to believe any of them turn a profit.
Growth in Division I athletics expenses outpaces revenue increases
Revenue generated by athletics through ticket sales, broadcast agreements and other sources continues to rise among Division I schools, but athletics-related expenses
www.ncaa.org
DD is darling daughter. It’s a term that has been used on the forum here for a very long time.