Vaccine

Ellejustus said:
It's all they got left Grace T. All jabbed in so they just twist and turn and move a goal post here and then move one over here. Cases everywhere now, shut the airports down, shut down certain colleges ((I guess only some teams have Covid)) s not to spread Omicron. They have nowhere to go now and nowhere to run. No more gasoline and no time to run. Backs up against a wall they cannot climb. No rope no nothing. They went all in with jabs and booster. Now booster is only good for a few weeks. I think a booster every two months is coming for those who are going down with the booster ship.
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Hound gave you the numbers for all symptomatic infections. That includes anyone with a mild case of the sniffles. Good to know, but we dont care about the sniffles. We care about hospitalizations and deaths.

If you look at hospitalization numbers, unvaccinated people are six times as likely to end up hospitalized for covid, and 13 times as likely to die from covid.

So, 45% effective against the sniffles. 83% and 92% effective against the important stuff.
 
dad4 said:
Hound gave you the numbers for all symptomatic infections. That includes anyone with a mild case of the sniffles. Good to know, but we dont care about the sniffles. We care about hospitalizations and deaths.

If you look at hospitalization numbers, unvaccinated people are six times as likely to end up hospitalized for covid, and 13 times as likely to die from covid.

So, 45% effective against the sniffles. 83% and 92% effective against the important stuff.
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This is an argument (and a good one) for at risk people who arent sure they’ve had it to get the vaxx. It’s not an argument for people who have had it or people who are at miniscule risk to get it. It’s also not an argument to mandate it.
 
Grace T. said:
This is an argument (and a good one) for at risk people who arent sure they’ve had it to get the vaxx. It’s not an argument for people who have had it or people who are at miniscule risk to get it. It’s also not an argument to mandate it.
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They conflate the two, hence why we're labeled anti-vaxxers by some.

Is the idea that we can vaccinate our way to herd immunity basically dead (given the current vaccines)?
 
Grace T. said:
the difference is people get to make the choice about the short term car risk. It’s about the mandate not the vaccine (particularly the colleges mandating boosters)
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"Boom" "Bang" "Pow" and a "Bingo" for that smack back take. Gr8t job Grace T. "Get your ass in the short car drive now and risk your life like the rest of us."

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watfly said:
They conflate the two, hence why we're labeled anti-vaxxers by some.

Is the idea that we can vaccinate our way to herd immunity basically dead (given the current vaccines)?
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Maybe it's a different anti-vaxx varietal? Team Confused is against mandates, or is certainly fearful of them (Team Reason is not pro-mandate). I think in order for Team Confused to make a case against mandates they need to argue that the vaccine isn't effective and people shouldn't need to get it. This, in turn, comes off as anti-vaxx.

Much of the outrage to @Grace T.'s "research" is the regularity in referencing quacks. It literally happens over and over again. Grace has slightly above average intelligence and knows better.
 
Hey look, it's Seven of Nine creating a Team of 1 - Not pro-mandate but not because of vaccine effectiveness. Of course, if his reading comprehension was any better he'd realize most of the non-mandate posters on here have felt that way long ago. My apologies to the "real" Seven of Nine who was obviously sharper than this version.
 
Thank you California and Governor Newsom for all you have done for me and my family. I mean that 100%. The good, bad and ugly is what makes us all great in the State. Over coming adversity together is what makes me stay. I believe in the people of California. Did I get everything I wanted this year? No! Did my wife? Nope! How about my dd? Not at all. My son got what he wanted and I'm 100% happy for him. I watched this video and I can say good has come through all this and I want to personally thank the Gov and the State. I got a job I'm starting Jan 4th, 2022, the same day my dd turns 18. I can't share what this adventurous teenager is going to do on her big day, but it's not something I have ever done and I'm way too scared to do it. I got my mask and I will stay home for New Years Eve with my wife.

 
Hüsker Dü said:
Au contraire as you once again hold up highly partisan hyperbole in lieu of serious research. Then at at some point you will in fact circle back and attempt to use it as confirmation for what you will try to pass as “your opinion”.
The cut & paste dizzy school of spin.
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Fitting
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Grace T. said:
the difference is people get to make the choice about the short term car risk. It’s about the mandate not the vaccine (particularly the colleges mandating boosters)
A. Doesn’t mean the vaccine is not warranted for some in this age group
B. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be taking steps to mitigate

and it’s your freak out that’s keeping the issue alive here. I would have been content with an “interesting but Here’s what’s wrong with the numbers” but that’s not what we got. Instead we get this Little freak out from you and yours. I’m just responding to y’all and would have been perfectly content leaving it with the original post.
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At the heart of the issue.
 
NorCalDad said:
Maybe it's a different anti-vaxx varietal? Team Confused is against mandates, or is certainly fearful of them (Team Reason is not pro-mandate). I think in order for Team Confused to make a case against mandates they need to argue that the vaccine isn't effective and people shouldn't need to get it. This, in turn, comes off as anti-vaxx.

Much of the outrage to @Grace T.'s "research" is the regularity in referencing quacks. It literally happens over and over again. Grace has slightly above average intelligence and knows better.
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1. Part of the team on your side certainly is pro-mandate. Just like part of the team on our side is definitely anti-vaxx. Your reasonableness on the issue is an aberration (and a welcomed one) not the norm.
2. We are not arguing that "people shouldn't...get it". We are arguing that it shouldn't be required for certain people because for certain people it might not make sense.
3. My Orwellian translator tells me that it is a common tactic on your side to label anyone you disagree with (regardless of their credentials) as "quacks" and anyone on your side that you agree with as a "expert". My Orwellian translator also tells me that it doesn't know your intelligence but it notices the subtle putdown so common on your side, and definitely believes YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
4. The fact that you jumped on this issue too really raises my eyebrow...tells me its touched a nerve.
 
Grace T. said:
1. Part of the team on your side certainly is pro-mandate. Just like part of the team on our side is definitely anti-vaxx. Your reasonableness on the issue is an aberration (and a welcomed one) not the norm.
2. We are not arguing that "people shouldn't...get it". We are arguing that it shouldn't be required for certain people because for certain people it might not make sense.
3. My Orwellian translator tells me that it is a common tactic on your side to label anyone you disagree with (regardless of their credentials) as "quacks" and anyone on your side that you agree with as a "expert". My Orwellian translator also tells me that it doesn't know your intelligence but it notices the subtle putdown so common on your side, and definitely believes YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
4. The fact that you jumped on this issue too really raises my eyebrow...tells me its touched a nerve.
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You make it look easy, well it actually is-still nicely done.
 
Grace T. said:
Part of the team on your side certainly is pro-mandate. Just like part of the team on our side is definitely anti-vaxx.
We are not arguing that "people shouldn't...get it". We are arguing that it shouldn't be required for certain people because for certain people it might not make sense.
label anyone you disagree with (regardless of their credentials) as "quacks" and
anyone on your side that you agree with as a "expert".
The fact that you jumped on this issue too really raises my eyebrow...tells me its touched a nerve.
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It's back to Us vs Them again Grace T. We always end up at the same place. Some want their mandates/requirements to be the law of the land. Some what the Laws on the books to be followed first before they obey one sides rules as they make up along the way and move goal post anytime they want to. They also cheat and always lie to win in need be. Only one side can win that way so that old game is over now. Now all sides are liars and cheaters and you just dont know who is being honest anymore. I have new rules too that I'm going by now and rule #1 is I will never tell anyone my new rules. I will win however I need to win.
 
Grace T. said:
Fauci, despite the rational for a mandate collapsing around him, seems to be pushing for a domestic flight mandate. I oppose for reasons previously stated.

www.axios.com

Fauci wants to “seriously” consider vaccine mandate for domestic flights

The U.S. is experiencing another wave of coronavirus cases driven by the Omicron variant.
www.axios.com www.axios.com
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Doesn't it matter less and less and delta fades and omicron becomes dominant - which is almost complete?

If it's anything like the vaccine travel to Hawaii, it will discourage people from traveling. The "verification" line at the airport was no joke.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Doesn't it matter less and less and delta fades and omicron becomes dominant - which is almost complete?

If it's anything like the vaccine travel to Hawaii, it will discourage people from traveling. The "verification" line at the airport was no joke.
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The rubber hits the road though when they change the definition of what "fully vaxxed" means.
 
Desert Hound said:
The problem they have is that as we are seeing as was posted earlier today, pfizer 10 weeks out after the booster is already down to 45% effectiveness. Moderna drops off as well but not as much.

So what are they going to do? Get people to get shots every 10 weeks or so?
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This is what happens when you go to market in a dishonest manner, from the top down. Panic and political agendas mixing with health care policy is polarizing and spins off dis/mis information coming from both sides.

1. We thought/hoped the vaccines would work (they kinda do, somewhat)
2. We knew early they didn't meet initial expectations, the data was rather clear really early - did nothing about it -slowly pivoted position (immunity to severe disease protection for many)
3. Hoped anti-virals would save the day, turns out not as effective as hoped and defintely more dangerous
4. Continue to panic even though data showing less disease is becoming more and more stable. Double down on vaccine mandates.

And before team whatever gets their panties in wad...go and get your vaccine/booster. They work for a large group of people. They should be vaccinated. While you are at it, get the shingles vax also. Let go of mandates for healthy people.
 
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