Hüsker Dü
DA
It’s what we have. Caves weren’t 100% either but our ancestors moved in for protection.
What “factors provide better protection”?
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
What “factors provide better protection”?
Doesn't surprise me at all. But I'm not anti-mask-vaxx-distancing-any precautions whatsoever precautions type of guy. Not remotely close, so save your lecture for someone else.
I'm comfortable that with my health and vax status and the current treatments available that the risk with fully resuming my life is negligible and the repercussions of me and my family not living life fully is much greater than the risk of Covid.
Our ancestors also weren't mandated by the Cave HOA to move inside.
Better Protection:
-Good health, not obese
-Avoiding sick people
-Young age
-Distance
-Moving things outdoors where possible
-Therapeutics (not a protection but a treatment)
That doesn't mean I don't also recommend a vaccine along with the above, I just don't believe it should be used to discriminate against people which is currently what's happening in many areas. Maybe a moot point as most vaccine mandates are being struck down by the court.
what-happened
GOLD
Let's start with basic stuff:
Health: We've gotten fatter over the last 20 months or so. Ridiculous. Put down your chips and soda, go for a walk.
Immune system: Natural immunity works..really, it does, not a political thing. Your immune system is remarkable.
Early treatment: Great stuff available, let practioners do their thing. CDC and FDA in support, not directing (traditional role)
Vaccines: Get one, if you want. Provide protection for the most vulnerable. Quit threatening people's livelihood with mandates.
It amazes me how there are two camps, both mired in stubborness and stupidity.
Quit listening to talking heads on tv and reading partisan material. Talking heads with direct ties to the money trail are biased.
Find a practioner that isn't scared - talk to them often and early if you feel sick. Buy home testing kits if it makes you feel better - they are accurate and effective in early ID. If you are vaccinated, catch covid, and are reasonably healthy - awesome. You are set.
This isn't the end of mutations. If the current trend stays true, the outlook is good.
What do you define as "the end". That's part of the problem is that politicians won't describe what constitutes "the end". The implement policies without clearly stated goals or move those goals.
One of your recurring excuses is "things change". No shit Sherlock. Things in life always change, you can live your life in fear of them.
What-happened reminded me that I forgot the most obvious "immunity from previous infection". Thanks for the assist w-h.
Works for delta. If it turns out that omicron causes a health care crisis in UK or New York, are you going to help create a matching crisis here?
Or do you make yet one more adjustment to how you live, and hope that it is over soon?
Maybe omicron flops and the question never comes up. But, if it does, there is not a third option.
Desert Hound
DA
This is how it will end. Look at the polling. People are done with this.
That is why you see the gov in CO giving in. He sees the polls. It is why NY will not ENFORCE its mask mandate.
The poll, which was conducted by Convention of States Action and the Trafalgar Group, found that 69 percent of Americans "say no new mandates or restrictions are required for the Omicron variant of COVID-19." That number includes 67 percent of independents, 86 percent of Republicans, and 54 percent of Democrats.
That is why you see the gov in CO giving in. He sees the polls. It is why NY will not ENFORCE its mask mandate.
The poll, which was conducted by Convention of States Action and the Trafalgar Group, found that 69 percent of Americans "say no new mandates or restrictions are required for the Omicron variant of COVID-19." That number includes 67 percent of independents, 86 percent of Republicans, and 54 percent of Democrats.
Desert Hound
DA
You have a number of default positions.
The biggest being is what MIGHT happen in the future means we cannot resume normal life now.
That default position is one based on fear.
Reading comprehension. The question on the table which kicking used was "eradication"
Again, he question always depends on what goal you are trying to set.
-If the goal is to prevent serious disease and death, all the data shows the vaccination is great or that. But that has consequences: 1) children and young people are not at serious risk of severe disease or death, and 2) people are responsible for their own health....if you don't think they can make choices over their own body why do you let them chose to have children or to vote.
-If the goal is to eradicate covid, yes the vaccines are worthless for that goal. Against the omicron, even the best shots seem only 30% effective at preventing transmission or catching Covid, and the early booster data coming in isn't much better. The virus is mutating, there are other variants that will arise, and there is a zoonotic reserve which makes it worse.
-If the goal is reducing covid transmission, well that question is much harder. The first question is why? For the vast majority of the population they will be alright so we are talking now about the very old, and very unhealthy and the immunocompromised (who are, BTW, at risk with the flu too and we don't do this with the flu so we are just talking about overall numbers and how many are acceptable...and before you saying "killing grandma", I have skin in this game with both kids and elderly grandparents). The next question is how much does it cost? And that's where I get off the mandate train....if the benefit (particularly with the omicron) is minimal, but the cost is high (and it is...people's livelihood, side effect risks, repetitive shots more than 2, stigmitizing an entire group, civil rights violations) I'm off the mandate train. I'd reconsider if we had a vaccine that actually worked better and/or had less side effects and a longer proven track record of safety.
Desert Hound
DA
What is interesting in the above is the IT WORKS FOR DELTA.
It wasn't that long ago you were terrified of DELTA. Now you basically admit it really doesn't affect the vast vast majority of people. So you are now on to Omicron as the next thing to fear.
To date none of the variants have presented a risk to the population at large...
Which is why people are moving on.
The fear peddled by politicians and the press are not coming true in real life.
Let's not pretend we haven't been at this crossroads before. My behaviors, with some luck throw in, have worked perfectly for avoiding Covid. We can't live life assuming our luck will run out. I'm also not afraid of cold symptoms.
1- Natural immunity has worked for about 299 out of every 300 people. The other one died. He was probably old and/or overweight. Let’s not forget about him.
2- If the case spike puts us in a crisis standard of care, early treatment is not an option. No one will have the time to prescribe or administer it.
Hüsker Dü
DA
It’s not discrimination it’s protection for rest of the herd. If you ever worked a herd of cattle you’d know what I mean.
No lecture just curious. Government shouldn’t mandate except in extreme cases, but private businesses can screen all they want. Just because the unvaccinated are restricted from certain activities isn’t a mandate it’s protection for the others. Things like flying commercial are a privilege not a right.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
In cases such as this, for politicians, you simply use the default that the end will occur when they believe they won't get re-elected if they continue with the policy.
Hüsker Dü
DA
Too early for me . . .
BTW, the world has a huge problem building. The early data is showing one of the Chinese viruses (the one most heavily in use...I think is sinovax) is 0% effective at stopping disease or transmission and 20% effective at severe disease. A lot of Africa, Asia and South America used the Chinese vaccine but there's also a lot of natural immunity there....t cells are turning out to be great (some of us were saying that since March/April 2020)....but 1 billion people (some portion, we don't know what due to Chinese lying, has had it) immunonaive and NPIS against the omicron doing nothing. That leaves the Chinese with a few choices: 1) continue going all out on their suppression, which will be harder and much more painful if even the hard NPIs of China fail, 2) hope the omicron data continues to show that even among the immunonaive it is mild (the data doesn't seem to be showing that in Europe...less deaths but still hospitalizations....the open question is how much prior immunity does Asia really have from cross coronaviruses), and 3) swipe the pfizer.moderna vaccine and trade sanctions be damned (probably the least painful choice but the Chinese economy isn't doing well and is teetering badly....sanctions would be another brick to add on that). 1 billion Chinese and their zoonotic reserves is an awful lot of room for more variants.
Hüsker Dü
DA
So the question begs, how good is good enough?
Yup, but while it was a tight question with the delta (remember while on the fence, I leaned in favor of state but not federal mandates early on), I think the omicron settles it very easily: not good enough to mandate (again, unless you don't believe people should have the right to decide where to work, to have children, to engage in risky activities like extreme sports or even soccer and to vote). Cost/benefits are messy.
You say "if you want" about vaccines, but not the other things.