Discovery League- "We've created a monster!!!"
- Thread starter timbuck
- Start date
+ $4 a gallon gas x 16 players, as a team you soon realize plus the the time spent each games, things really adds up and you want good competitive games to make it worth the while.
Somebody from my son old team figured each longer distance away game was costing at least 1k per for the team as a whole with 16 players if you added up the gas ($20 per) transportation costs + parking ($12-15 per) + ref fees for each game.
The beer and wine, snacks, food at Silverlakes is not too pricey but just another spend item..
For the LA county teams that have to travel to Silverlakes and Oside weekly that's some mileage. Having no home games limits fan or some other people that might attend if it was local.
Keepermom2
GOLD
Right?! And all to change the name from Flight 1 to Discovery.
1. All of the Discovery teams know they play at one venue. This isn't a surprise.
2. The league covers the referee fees.
3. Discovery is not a money making venture for the league. This is fact.
4. How much did teams pay for travel to tournaments during COVID? Or pay for parking during summer tournaments? Or for State Cup under Cal South?
5. Or that it saves clubs money on field rentals when most clubs have trouble getting fields to begin with.
Discovery will be 15 teams in North and 15 south. Next year.
I don't know if you're naive or you just don't know, there making $$.
What's the fees to play in the disco league again? 1500? x 45 teams =~ 70k x 12 = $840,000. Yeah right there not making any money.
They are getting a cut on the parking venue on top of that at least at Silverlakes and other things.
The clubs are making more by charging higher fees for teams in certain leagues like this one.
And no there will be a lot more teams in each next year, down from 45 per perhaps but no way limited to 15.
Dream on if you think there clubs are saving money by traveling for every game and paying 3x normal league fees. No parents are saving any money in this arrangement, costing them more when you add up transportation expensive, parking, extra time on the road. There club fees are not going down because they play in this league.
They great thing about a soccer forum is you can hide behind a scream name. The not so great thing is you can hide behind a screen name.
That being said I know what I speak of and I will leave it that.
Discovery is a break even venture for SoCal once you figure in cost of fields, refs, admin cost and other misc costs.
SoCal does not make a cent off of parking off of the venues. Plus there is no discount for field rental. The league pays Discovery fiend rental.
As far as the club side fir parents. Not privy. So I do not assume I know if it costs more or less for a parent. On the club side it has to cost less, unless they force parents to pay ref fees on top of dues as a team.
As to why I know it will drop to 15 in north and 15 in the South max next year. Is because it has to from the league side to make the model work. That’s all I will share.
You can think I am wrong or naive. But as I said anonimity on a soccer forum is what it is.
I dont think the "league" is making additional money. (And I dont think leagues necessarily exist to "make money". Sure- people get paid to work for the league. And if the league grows, they should get paid more. Or they hire more people and spread the money around. That's for another discussion).
I also don't think anyone is getting rich from youth soccer. Sure, you've got some guys earning mid 6 figure incomes - But they've grown their clubs to the point where they likely deserve it. I don't have the full research on this - But I'm pretty sure that some of the people that run silverlakes are also involved in the SoCalLeague board. And I'm pretty sure that some clubs were granted Discovery League status due to their relationships with the SoCalLeague powers-that-be. And the people selling canopies and other field equipment are likely connected as well.
My kid is on a team that will play in Discovery this year. Our prices didn't go up or down because of this. If the club saves money from Discovery, I dont think we'll see a reduction in our fees in the future.
Eagle33
PREMIER
Thanks Michelle!
Ha ok anonymous soccer user name. Who are you then if you're not a parent?
Been on this forum for a lot longer vs your anonymous account, why are you hiding?
You have posted things that may be your opinion but not necessarily true since you're obviously guessing, hiding, or haven't seen the the financials or the agreements.
Yes they are making money on the parking at Silverlakes for one, do you know how? Tell us this past season who received kickbacks from the parking if you think you know?
Premium priced leagues are not brake even, if you seen the financials they tell a different story not your opinion or guessing.
There are already disco divisions with only 15 teams or 30 total this year. Looks at the girls or some of the other age brackets. Supply and demand driven by the clubs,. Docs. If they want 45 teams next year there will be 45 teams.
Come clean or just concede it's your personal opinions, everyone has one no biggie.
Youth soccer is not generally run to loose money, there are potential surpluses, Who would cover the losses if there where any?
Those $$$ in the bank, stock market, other assets where achieved how again? Nobody is getting rich but it's not a zero sum either even with "no-profit" status. Some clubs loose money but the league is not and neither are the the premium price leagues and I've seen the numbers to back up my personal opinions.
sascbreakaway83
BRONZE
I just noticed in the 2009 boys bracket has a team that he’s never played a game before? How does that qualify you for Discovery? Also a team that jumped from F3 to Discovery? What the….lol
Discovery fee is $1000 per team.
Do the math on referee fees alone at $1.75 per minute. For a 90 minute game that's $157.50 per game which is about $78.75 each team (even though the league pays the ref fees I'm using this as an example). Each team plays 14 games so just in referee fees alone, per team, it's $1102.50. That doesn't include field rentals or setup. Based on Basic Math for Idiots 101, there is no many being made in the Discovery division by the league.
JH from Silverlakes is not on the SoCal league board. He is a Technical Committee member with no financial influence or decision making ability at the board level. No one from Legends, or Silverlakes, is on the SoCal board which can be verified on their website.
Coming out of COVID, and this is public knowledge too, any team that applied for Discovery is in Discovery so that the competition can play itself out on the field and not have the decision made by anyone that hasn't seen the teams play in over a year. Again, public knowledge. It didn't have anything to do with clubs granted Discovery status due to relationships with anyone. But like SOCCER said, teams in Discovery that have no business there will have a tough season and an even tougher future for being in the wrong group.
Haters are always going to hate but at least hate on the facts and not on speculation or assumptions.
Basic business 101. Elite race cars make no money but bring in buyers for the manufacturers other cars. Loss leaders etc.
Basic business 102. The league doesn't have to make money. The clubs have to make money. The league is just an intermediary corporation that sets out a formal relationship between the clubs and combines resources for some common management tasks and expenses. The money can all be made at the club level (where, again, it can all be paid out in wages and bonuses and show no profits).
SCDSL or whatever you call it was created to allow more control by Mega clubs and keep them expanding. Every time a new Surf affiliate is created an angel dies.
I
I'll use your equation to simplify it (plus your own math was even wrong. Based on your calculations, the total would be $810k, not $840 but let's clean it up and make it accurate.
$1000 (actual fee per team) x 45 teams = $45k x 12 = $540,000
45 teams x 12 divisions = 540 teams
540 teams x 14 games = 7560 games divided by two because there are 2 teams per game = 3780 games
For the sake of this discussion let's use 80-minute games because some games are 70 and some are 90-minutes so we'll use 80 as the average.
3780 games x 80 = 302,400 minutes of games
302,400 minutes of games x $1.75 per minute = $529.200
That's JUST in referee fees.
Add in athletic trainers, field rentals and setup and it's clear this is no money making venture but it's the right thing to do for the game.
Oh - and let's not forget the FREE college showcase that the Discovery teams get to participate in.
Now that you know the facts, based on public information and not your misinformation, please explain where all of the money comes with Discovery?
I'll wait.
I'll use your equation to simplify it (plus your own math was even wrong. Based on your calculations, the total would be $810k, not $840 but let's clean it up and make it accurate.
$1000 (actual fee per team) x 45 teams = $45k x 12 = $540,000
45 teams x 12 divisions = 540 teams
540 teams x 14 games = 7560 games divided by two because there are 2 teams per game = 3780 games
For the sake of this discussion let's use 80-minute games because some games are 70 and some are 90-minutes so we'll use 80 as the average.
3780 games x 80 = 302,400 minutes of games
302,400 minutes of games x $1.75 per minute = $529.200
That's JUST in referee fees.
Add in athletic trainers, field rentals and setup and it's clear this is no money making venture but it's the right thing to do for the game.
Oh - and let's not forget the FREE college showcase that the Discovery teams get to participate in.
Now that you know the facts, based on public information and not your misinformation, please explain where all of the money comes with Discovery?
I'll wait.
Clubs and leagues are non-profits. They should all have reserves to get them through situations like COVID but none of them are for-profit.
Small, independent clubs still exist and thrive in their communities but some have decided that affiliating with another club brings them something they need. Affiliations aren't done just at the big club level, there are small clubs affiliating with other small clubs too.
You also haven't read the mission statement of SCDSL and why it was created. "to give control to the clubs to decide what is in the best interest of their teams". CSL wouldn't allow the clubs to pull their ECNL teams out of the league. Boys DA teams were already gone. They made is easy for a new league to be created because they were so dug with forcing clubs to play teams that didn't want to play.
It had nothing to do with mega clubs expansion. I would argue that many of the founding clubs have not grown in size and some no longer exist but like every business, survival of the fittest applies to youth soccer too. Good leadership, a business plan and some level of success is what every business needs in order to remain successful.
Nothing you are saying refutes anything I said.
Primetime
SILVER ELITE
Silverlakes is making money but the league isn’t. In fact it’s costing money. All the DOCs approved the extra expenditures out of a surplus the league had from the first couple seasons. Discovery is $800 for 14 games. The Ref fees for that many games at Flight 1, 2 or 3 is about $750 alone. So add on to that the price to rent the field at Silverlakes ($125 per game x 14 games). Your looking at $1,750 for fields. So that’s clearly way more than the registration fee covers. Again the league is eating the cost and I know this because I voted on it along with 80 other DOCs. Discovery was set up and designed to be a loss of money and a way for the league to give back.
But you gotta love the people who don’t know what their talking about with all their “it’s all about the money , it’s all about the money”. Meanwhile basic math and the slightest of insights prevail.
I am also on the inside but can't reveal myself, but trust me I know an angel dies when another Surf affiliate forms.
I took a look at Discovery for the boys, most are 3rd and 4th tier teams. I feel sorry for the 1st tier teams from small clubs that have to travel a distance to play a 4th tier team. My buddy's son's team is a very competitive team from a small club that has to play the 4th team from a larger club four times during the season. The teams are in each others backyards but have to travel to Oceanside for one team to destroy the other.
According to my buddy they were lead to believe that there would be some cross play between North and South since they would be playing at the same venues for the most part. That would make sense, but instead they get to play the same crappy teams 3-4 times during the season.
It seems that there are many knowledgeable people on this thread so I’d like to ask how the Champions division will be formed this season? Is it the same as Discovery and any team that applied to play Champions division will, or will the teams be looked at independently and those considered the best qualified will be put in that group? Thanks